Just trying to get this thread back to its original topic.
which was?...... because I plum did forgot and I started it. Besides I thought I quit the board anyhows!!!
I think this would solve a lot of problems..... I'm gonna start a campaign to get Lance Armstrong elected as the next prez of the US of A under the Cycletartaisim Cultural Libertarain Front! I ripped off the Manefesto from Karl Marx who happens to be a commie bastard and not even American but who cares....Gnarls Barkley sure don't, there more worried about Feng Shei which am I too!
What I really wish is that Cuba had a pro cyclist so that freedom lovin', Armstrong ass kissin' Ruskie, Eki could spit in the dudes face but Fidel don't allow pro anything so I gotta think of some other cokamammy story to come up with for my next entry on my blog on MYSPACE.COM/AGENTFUTURA!!!! _________________ I Love The French But Still Got Cyber Tourettes!
OK, I was getting "sleepy goofy" last night. I thought about this discussion a little more today and all I have are questions.
After Lemond won the TdF in the 80's was there equal distaste for American riders as after Armstrong. There are significant differences between the 2 personalities, frankly neither are very likeable in my book but was there a "Now the Americans are gonna F-up cycling too!"
I ask this because American's do have a tendency get into the global sports arena with the expectations to dominate and anything less is a dissapointment. So with that attitude comes a lot of bravado which is justifiably annoying for other countries. We are the country that has a sport that calls it's national champion "The World Series Champion."
Because of this history and pattern of arrogance is there not a reaction by other countries to react unfairly to individual riders based on a national attitude or past individual's behavior. Naspa says "sins of the father." Is that really fair for say a Dave Zabriskie, Saul Raison, or younger riders like Danny Pate, Mike Creed, or even Tom Dannielson who I frankly think is a nice and amiable guy? _________________ I Love The French But Still Got Cyber Tourettes!
Armstrong defined US cycling. He defined what was important and relevent in terms of the wider perception of US cycling. He defined how: the US press sees cycling, how casual fans see cycling, and how the non-US cycling world sees US cycling.
With all due respect to your knowlege, but that is hogwash.
What Armstrong defined was his own goals and methods for obtaining those goals. What he did had nothing whatsoever to do with how I rode my bike.
If the press, the casual fan and the non-US cycling world sees it any differently they need to possibly reexamine their motives. Perhaps they needed a hero or a villian in their lives, something Armstrong never claimed to want to be.
This is a f*cking cool thread. I love it because we get to talk to people with very different viewpoints and have our eyes OPENED. Now, if we can just all get along, that would be even f*cking cooler.
I agree with bits and pieces of what everyone's saying.
My two bits: I see Discovery as the "American team", T-Mobile as the "German" team, Rabobank as the "Dutch" team, CSC as the "Danish team", Euskaltel as the "Basque", not Spanish, team, Gerolsteiner as "the other German team", Davitamon-Lotto as the "Belgian" team which is one of my favorite "Australian and American teams" because of McRob and Fast Freddie but which is truly neither American or Australian, Milram as the "other, other German team which is really the Italian team but based in Germany (Bremen)", Quick Step as "the other Belgian team", AG2R as the "French team, and there really is no question there with a name like that now is there, team", and so on and so forth.
One thing I know for sure: we Americans are really generally no better or worse than people in England, France, or any other country in the world. Any other view is just unhelpful and will lead to problems, really. _________________ END THE MADNESS
I dduw bo'r diolch
"This bike is so pimp it hit your mother and all she could say was 'Thank you, sir!'".
After Lemond won the TdF in the 80's was there equal distaste for American riders as after Armstrong. There are significant differences between the 2 personalities, frankly neither are very likeable in my book but was there a "Now the Americans are gonna F-up cycling too!"
They hated Eddy during his reign because he won everything. Hated him. And he wasn't even an American _________________ "I give up, why a duck?"
After Lemond won the TdF in the 80's was there equal distaste for American riders as after Armstrong. There are significant differences between the 2 personalities, frankly neither are very likeable in my book but was there a "Now the Americans are gonna F-up cycling too!"
I don't seem to remember people hating Lemond as much as they hate Armstrong. I certainly didn't hate Lemond but, as for Armstrong, the sooner he gets his come uppance the better. _________________ Clayton Seymour
Lemond may have been disliked in some circles, but it all pales in comparison to the animosity (for many reasons) that LA created.
IMO -Lemond was more amiable to the Europeans and much less of the cult of personality, wrapped in the American flag spectacle that LA paraded for 7 years.
I don't think all the great champions are hated by any stretch....Big Mig is, even to this day, very highly thought of by most. His detractors might say oh he wasn't as exciting or whatever, but there aren't many who actively dislike the man. Then he is a pretty laid-back, quiet, unassuming type, so finding reasons to hate him are much harder to come by than the likes of LA.
Well, naspa found a new thread to sink his fangs into! You just love to argue, even if we're only here for amusement, even when you get the last word which leaves you with nothing more to argue.
Sooty may well be a crusty old fart, and Agent Futura may me a loopy American, but at least they warranted their own threads with polls no less. Pity that you're left to argue your non points with those who don't care that you win. You ARE arguing with many Americans... We clearly know of losing battles. After all, we're the ones who invaded Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction...
Have at it naspa. Entertain us. Were a jaded, tough crowd and we paid our admission. So bring it, bitch. We're waiting. We've got american flags and popcorn! And we've got Lance Armstrong, iconic American, defender of being the most tested athlete in the world, proud waver of the Lone Star flag, and the most lawyers that 7 Tour de Frances can buy on our side.
And for what it's worth, the Pro peloton and politics are inextricably linked. However, nationalism and politics may well be mutually exclusive. Just trying to get this thread back to its original topic.
Sorry? Ask a question and get an answer. I actually only dealt with one half of the question about perceptions of Disc/USP, I didn't get round a dealing with the second half of the question about cycling and nationalism/politics in a european context.
If I want to find out what a non-point looks like then I'll be sure to look up your recent posts.
T-Rek - this is exatly my point it isn't about American fans and riders vs the rest - what it actually about the contempt that many die-hard fans feel for casual fans. Armstrong, Disco-fanboyism and a TDF fetish is symptomatic of 'new' fans who only support teams when they are winning.
For the record, this is no different from any other sport - afterall, how many 'Chelski' fans were fans when they had players like Kerry Dixon, David Speedie and John Bumstead playing for them. As the saying goes 'where were you when you were shit?'. _________________
Some guy: Josephine, do you think you are going bald?
Josephine: No. You've asked me that before and the answer was no then.
Chelski fans? heh....they couldn't even fill the grounds before the Russian money machine came!
And now? Well they are just like what Keano said about United supporters....having a few pints while eating prawn sandwiches and not knowing a damn thing that's happening on the pitch!
Chelski fans? heh....they couldn't even fill the grounds before the Russian money machine came!
And now? Well they are just like what Keano said about United supporters....having a few pints while eating prawn sandwiches and not knowing a damn thing that's happening on the pitch!
Roy has that right. But not all Manchester supporters are football illiterati. _________________ END THE MADNESS
I dduw bo'r diolch
"This bike is so pimp it hit your mother and all she could say was 'Thank you, sir!'".
Indeed and not all Disco/LA or American fans are 'glory-boys' - but the perception IMO of many European fans is that they are. Just as the perception of Man Utd fans is that none of them live in Manchester.
Also, lets be honest no one likes the fans of winners because the fans of winners are fucking annoying, arrogant pricks. This again I think goes for any sport - when the Pats were 1-15 and the Red Sox had gone 86 years without a WS their fans were quite indearing in heir support of a futile cause. Now that they have won they are just annoying and smug.
Lets be honest it is pretty hard not to be resentful if you are having to watch someone like Mayo, or fat Brad McGee lead your team and fail miserably. Before Menchov when was the last time Rabobank had a serious GT contender?
Indeed and not all Disco/LA or American fans are 'glory-boys' - but the perception IMO of many European fans is that they are. Just as the perception of Man Utd fans is that none of them live in Manchester.
Also, lets be honest no one likes the fans of winners because the fans of winners are fucking annoying, arrogant pricks. This again I think goes for any sport - when the Pats were 1-15 and the Red Sox had gone 86 years without a WS their fans were quite indearing in heir support of a futile cause. Now that they have won they are just annoying and smug.
Lets be honest it is pretty hard not to be resentful if you are having to watch someone like Mayo, or fat Brad McGee lead your team and fail miserably. Before Menchov when was the last time Rabobank had a serious GT contender?
Yeah, right, agreed.
Having grown up in Boston during the "lean years", I can say it was a very happy decade for me as a Pats and Sox fan. But really, they're JUST sports teams, and they don't affect my well-being or levels of depression/excitement. Boston fans are some of the worst, I agree. But then, we waited so long. I can die happy now because of 2004.
_________________ END THE MADNESS
I dduw bo'r diolch
"This bike is so pimp it hit your mother and all she could say was 'Thank you, sir!'".
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
