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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I was slightly amazed to read the following:

Quote:
At the time a generalisation was that the batting looked reasonably healthy but there were concerns over the bowling. It now looks as if the situation has been reversed. There is a strong pace bowling group now, built around Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad, the second most successful pace bowling pair in the game’s history, and one that is rapidly closing in on the record of Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose.


Sez I that can't be right - what about Lillee and Thompson, Holding and Roberts and Wasim and Waqir?  Turns out that of new-ball partnerships Courtney and Curtly are indeed the kings (I recently youtubed King Ambrose's 7 for 1 at the WACA - pure magic) with 757 wickets in partnership, but Anderson and Broad now have overtaken Wasim and Younis.  Some achievement, but I know who I would rather face... Wink
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mazda



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key weasel word there is "successful" and even then it needs qualification in terms of total wickets, rather than total per match, or strike rate.
Obviously there are many more fearsome opening pairs out there - Marshall plus A N Other springs first to my mind.
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to post this link http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/808161.html to explain

Doh

Marshall and me would have been fairly handy - he was the best bowler I have ever seen
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
There is a strong pace bowling group now, built around Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad, the second most successful pace bowling pair in the game’s history, and one that is rapidly closing in on the record of Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose.


According to stats and based on longevity, I guess it must be true (probably something to do with more matches being played now?). But based on instinct and cricket legend, it can't be true (in fact instinctively Holding and Roberts or Joel Garner were better than Walsh and Ambrose as well). From an England point of view though, you might have to go back to Trueman and Statham (before my time, honest!) for a similarly successful pairing.

Lillee and Thompson and Waqar and Wasim are good shouts, but I guess some combination of the Windies' fearsome foursome would be the most threatening attack of all time (Holding Garner Marshall Croft)?
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
I was slightly amazed to read the following:

Quote:
At the time a generalisation was that the batting looked reasonably healthy but there were concerns over the bowling. It now looks as if the situation has been reversed. There is a strong pace bowling group now, built around Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad, the second most successful pace bowling pair in the game’s history, and one that is rapidly closing in on the record of Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose.


Sez I that can't be right - what about Lillee and Thompson, Holding and Roberts and Wasim and Waqir?  Turns out that of new-ball partnerships Courtney and Curtly are indeed the kings (I recently youtubed King Ambrose's 7 for 1 at the WACA - pure magic) with 757 wickets in partnership, but Anderson and Broad now have overtaken Wasim and Younis.  Some achievement, but I know who I would rather face... Wink


Not big in terms of matches and therefore wickets, but here are a few more pairs to consider, even if only for a single, notable series:

Lindwall and Millar

Trueman and Statham

Larwood and Voce

Hall and Griffith

Though perhaps not McCague and Illott from the 1993 Ashes series!
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good selection SR, and I would like to add Donald and Pollock.

A nice farewell to Chanderpaul http://www.theguardian.com/sport/...v-chanderpaul-west-indies-cricket who faded last against the dying of the WI light...

Hard to believe the West Indians are reduced to Mankadding the might Zimbabwe at the U19 World Cup

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/...ies-zimbabwe-mankad-u19-world-cup
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
I would like to add Donald and Pollock.


Good call!

I saw the 2nd day of the Leeds test in 1998. SA were bowled out just before the close, and England had one over to face. The pitch and air conditions were fast that day (Gough and Flintoff were regularly clocked at the 92/93 mph level) and neither Butcher nor Atherton looked particularly keen to take strike against Donald!
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best idea I have seen the ICC consider in along while

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/...st-cricket-two-divisions-shake-up

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/.../26/ireland-icc-two-division-test

The lower tier teams can only improve by playing regular test cricket - so why not with each other initially?  The prospect of gaining 'promotion' and a crack at the established test nations is a great proposal IMO.
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, sounds like a great idea, wonder whether the ICC will accept it? Can a governing body take a decision to benefit the long-term interests of the sport over vested (short-term) financial interests?
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of discussion lately about the idea of two divisions in test cricket. If this is the way to go, then why not have 3 or 4 divisions and let the "Associates" play genuine test cricket, with the best teams having the chance to get promoted and the worst teams the "opportunity" to get relegated. Play-off matches for promotion/relegation would be interesting?
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantanifan wrote:
Plenty of discussion lately about the idea of two divisions in test cricket. If this is the way to go, then why not have 3 or 4 divisions and let the "Associates" play genuine test cricket, with the best teams having the chance to get promoted and the worst teams the "opportunity" to get relegated. Play-off matches for promotion/relegation would be interesting?


A good idea, but whatever the chances are of India, England and Oz approving a two-tier structure, I doubt that WI, SL, PAK would vote for something that might see themselves over-exposed.  Turkeys, as far as we know, tend not to vote for Christmas... Wink

http://www.foxsports.com.au/crick.../2a00386734f3b8f4279fac23019ca636

PF, are you alluding to Vaughan's Telegraph article or do great minds just naturally think alike?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricke...ka-proves-there-should-be-two-di/
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was partly referring to what Vaughan wrote/said on the radio, but also listening to Test Match Special for the England-Sri Lanka series, "Aggers", being a traditionalist, is opposed to the idea (no doubt as "Johners" would have been and "Blowers" probably is). Agree it could cause difficulties for those that would start off in Division 2 and they're unlikely to approve the idea, but surely there would also be an incentive to get promoted and maybe a money-spinning play-off in Dubai (?) to look forward to...

Every other sport in the world (as far as I know) has something at stake for winning or losing, other than kudos.
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ireland vs. Sri Lanka today, interesting article on Ireland's current situation on cricinfo today:

www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-sri-lanka-2016/content/story/1026667.html [url][/url]
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Spin recounts the often toxic relationship between England and Pakistan https://www.theguardian.com/sport...cricket-donald-carr-1956-the-spin

Leading with this shocker that I had never even heard of...

Quote:
Among the many questionable decisions made by English cricket captains, few can have been quite so unwise as the one taken by Donald Carr on the evening of 26 February 1956. That was the night Carr and six of his team-mates put on masks, slipped into the Services Hotel in Peshawar, gagged the Pakistani umpire Idris Baig, carried him by his limbs down the back staircase, dumped him in a horse-drawn carriage, drove him across town to Dean’s Hotel, sat him in a chair, offered him a drink, and then poured two buckets of cold water over his head. By comparison, Nasser Hussain’s decision to put Australia in seems eminently sensible, Tony Greig’s promise to make the West Indians grovel somewhat regrettable.

Carr, who died last month, said at the time that his prank was “considered terribly funny by everyone who was there”, including several of the Pakistani players, who, having heard Baig had been abducted, set out in a search party and arrived in time to find him soaking wet. The conspicuous exception was Baig himself, who soon threatened to sue the MCC “for injury to his person”, and was still wearing a sling two days later. The Pakistani press were even less amused. “The terrible incident took place last night will not only shake the world,” one report ran, “rather, it will defame the respected game of cricket.” That same article also accused England of “torturing” the teetotal Baig by forcing him to drink whisky.
it wasn’t already apparent, the degree to which Carr had misjudged the mood became clear when his team returned to the ground after the rest day and found themselves surrounded by a crowd chanting “Shame! Shame!” and “MCC go home!” For the rest of the tour, England travelled with an armed police guard. The British Deputy High Commission in Lahore went into lockdown, and, according to one of the staff, the only reason there wasn’t a riot at the gates was because of the torrential rain. The tour would have been called off if the MCC president, Field Marshal Alexander of Tunis, had not made a sincere apology to his counterpart at the Pakistani board, Iskander Mirza, an old colleague of his from the campaigns on the North-West Frontier.

Even after the team had left, the British Deputy High Commissioner complained that the incident had caused a “tremendous setback” in relations between the two nations. As for Carr, well, he thought it had all been a good bit of a fun. Baig was a stuffy sort, who once told the MCC’s tour manager Geoffrey Howard: “You must understand … that a lot of the crowd come to watch me umpire.” It’s not a coincidence that the same day Baig was dunked in water, he had also given three dubious LBWs against England, and turned down a certain one of their own. So Carr felt Baig deserved the ragging. “Quite honestly, when I look back on the Peshawar incident,” he told the MCC committee when he was back in Britain, “I think it was about the funniest thing I have ever seen in my life.”

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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't heard that one about Donald Carr. How funny to force someone who doesn't drink to drink alcohol - "banter" is not what it used to be!

Plenty of speculation that the ICC are planning to welcome Afghanistan and Ireland to test cricket before long, the current ICC administration seems relatively forward-looking...
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantanifan wrote:
Haven't heard that one about Donald Carr. How funny to force someone who doesn't drink to drink alcohol - "banter" is not what it used to be!

Plenty of speculation that the ICC are planning to welcome Afghanistan and Ireland to test cricket before long, the current ICC administration seems relatively forward-looking...


Not sure if you have read this PF

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1064853.html

I was astonished to learn that it took India 20 years to win their first test, and NZ 26 years and 44 matches to record their first win.  You are right though, the ICC seem quite progressive and their certainly seems to be a lot of Associate cricket being played which can only improve the standard.  It will take many years, if ever at all, before they can be properly competitive, but at least they are being given a chance to keep learning and improving - and that's encouraging.
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the IPL, Big Bash, etc. could also be a factor in developing stars in the "Associate countries" - a couple of Afghan players have recently been signed by one of the leagues. I guess they have to be careful not to lose their best players from the national team in this way though (as Ireland have lost quite a few players to English cricket over the years, not to mention West Indies' problems)...

Interesting Test series going on in India right now, with the Aussies performing above expectation - gritty, fighting cricket, maybe their large number of left handers is helping to combat India's offspinner (Ashwin) and they seem to have unearthed a new opening batsman (Renshaw)...

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