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Vuelta 2016: Stages 18-21. Onward to Madrid Sept 8-11th.
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

SlowRower wrote:
mazda wrote:


Not sure why Quintana felt the need to attack Froome in the last 50m.


Two reasons I think:

Firstly to demonstrate that it wasn't even close yesterday.

Secondly, a psychological marker for next year.

Or maybe it was as simple as wanting to "dish it out" just because he could.


Those aren't reasons, they are excuses.
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.

I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.
 I had hoped for something more akin Lemond and the Badger, but perhaps that is wishful thinking in this era.
Still, he's free to do as he pleases.
As was Froome.
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Biosphere
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was more or less watching live yesterday, but didn't have time to post with keeping kids busy. Very happy for Chaves. Went for the long range attack and it paid off. Also very happy for Latour - he was working so hard, ignored the wheelsucking and it paid off.

Thought this comment was not so classy from Contador. He was beaten fair and square by Chaves I would have said. Do I misinterpret?

Quote:
"My congratulations to Nairo for his win, Froome for his race, and more than Chaves, Orica, for their strategy."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...haves-for-vuelta-a-espana-podium/
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, a touch of sour grapes it seems, but did he really expect Movistar to risk upsetting the grand Nairo plan to chase down Chaves for him?  A bit naive there, Bertie...

I didn't see more then a few minutes highlights as an afternoon's late summer sunshine in the company of Europe's best thoroughbreds seemed infinitely preferable to Carlton's wittering on.  

Chaves has been a revelation this year, but it's hard to see how he might actually win a GT with such an iffy TT.  Orica will surely find it hard to support three GT riders next year, so will either Chaves or the Yates brothers (I presume they stay or go as a pair) move on?
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Biosphere
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did wonder about Orica having 3 GC podium contenders now as well, but there are 3xGTs and I don't think there are any rumours of any of them moving? Maybe enough races to go around for now? It seems like a teamy team anyway, barring Matthews and Gerrans which is already resolved.

As for anyone needing a good ITT, I would not be surprised if the route designers took a look at Froome's GT ITT dominance this year and thought maybe not for next year?
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biosphere wrote:
I was more or less watching live yesterday, but didn't have time to post with keeping kids busy. Very happy for Chaves. Went for the long range attack and it paid off. Also very happy for Latour - he was working so hard, ignored the wheelsucking and it paid off.

Thought this comment was not so classy from Contador. He was beaten fair and square by Chaves I would have said. Do I misinterpret?

Quote:
"My congratulations to Nairo for his win, Froome for his race, and more than Chaves, Orica, for their strategy."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...haves-for-vuelta-a-espana-podium/


Yes.
I've notice that as he becomes less successful, he is showing a less pleasant side to his character. Rather than hold his hand up for failure, he is gaining a reputation for blaming external forces.
Expecting Movistar to return the favour? That implies that he rode stage 15 for their benefit, not for his own, which frankly is cobblers.
Stage 15 was mutually beneficial, Movistar chasing down Chaves yesterday would have served only Contador at a cost to Quintana's domestiques.


On my post above, I have watched the finish again and changed my opinion. Froome kicked off the sprint, then eased off, so Quintana simply carried on.
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Nolte



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazda wrote:
I think Chaves could be my new favourite rider.


I feel the same way.

--
I saw contador comments before I ventured into the wind this morning. It doesn't show any class on his part. Why should have movistar worked to bring back chaves. They had no interest to do so. Chaves was not a threat to them so why?

Must say in interviews, I'm liking froome's attitude, he has shown great amount of grace in the race and i respect him for the grace he has shown.
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HuwB wrote:
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.


Except that you are only as good as your last race and Froome now has to ask the question as to why Quintana was so much stronger than him in the latter stages of the Vuelta after they both rode the Tour. Maybe he'll hang onto the thought that it was riding the OGs that scuppered him but I'll bet Quintana will enjoy his winter training more than Froome! That's not to write off Froome, but winning is always better than losing.

HuwB wrote:
I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.


See above. Romance is one thing (but surely the most champion-like gesture is to respect your opponent and lay down everything you've got, even if you don't need to.) Sewing a few seeds of doubt in Froome's mind is another thing altogether. As Velominati Rule 70 clearly states: "The purpose of competing is to win. End of."
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlowRower wrote:
HuwB wrote:
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.



HuwB wrote:
I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.


See above. Romance is one thing (but surely the most champion-like gesture is to respect your opponent and lay down everything you've got, even if you don't need to.) Sewing a few seeds of doubt in Froome's mind is another thing altogether. As Velominati Rule 70 clearly states: "The purpose of competing is to win. End of."


Also, see above. Wink

Edit:- Well, this subject has just come up in Eurosport commentary.
Kirby announced that apparently the Spanish press have openly criticised Quintana for sprinting past Froome to which Sean Kelly replied: "and rightly so, it wasn't a nice thing to do, it was a bit much." SK thinks the subsequent applause was sarcastic, rather than a chapeau.
Took me a little by surprise, tbh.

Apparently, Quintana has subsequently offered up an apology of sorts.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest in a teacup tbh.  Personally I think Quintana should have stamped his authority on the race over the last couple of km (if he could) or do the gentlemanly thing and ride to the line together ... but I don't think it was the worse breach of etiquette I've seen.  Froome himself is not without form if I think back to 2012 ... and Quintana is anything but 'classy' IMO.

All in all a good race though ... some super stages and good to see Chavez grow a pair and come out from the wheels.  Chapeau.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertie could've been good enough to follow Quintana and Froome to the summit. He would have kept third place comfortably. But he didn't.
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HuwB wrote:
Also, see above. Wink

Edit:- Well, this subject has just come up in Eurosport commentary.
Kirby announced that apparently the Spanish press have openly criticised Quintana for sprinting past Froome to which Sean Kelly replied: "and rightly so, it wasn't a nice thing to do, it was a bit much." SK thinks the subsequent applause was sarcastic, rather than a chapeau.
Took me a little by surprise, tbh.

Apparently, Quintana has subsequently offered up an apology of sorts.


All very strange. I mean the next time they race, if one has the chance to make a decisive move on the other then they'll take it, irrespective of whether etiquette or not was breached yesterday. So why is it even an issue? (Rhetorical question.)

If I remember correctly, there was barely any more concern about rules/etiqeutte in 2012(?) when Sky (allegedly) force Valverded into evasive action to avoid some road hardware on an echelon stage.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neither rider was able to drop the other during the big head-to-head face offs in the race. That is something I expect to continue into the future when both riders are operating at close to equal form and health.

Would have been nice to end the team hostilities at the point when the race is deemed to be over.

That is what we expect in certain other sports (and don't in others).
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mr shifter



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
and good to see Chavez grow a pair and come out from the wheels.  

methinks he hasn't grown much and was at it again today.  Rolling Eyes
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup ... he was back at it again today!
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

?? not sure i understood, Chaves is being done for wheelsucking??

he forced the winning move with an acceleration on the final climb that distanced a seizing Bardet.. not sure that was luck. that he stayed behind Uran & Rosa in the final km, was good tactics!

in the vuelta he was clipping off the main GC group, and riding his own race - especially on the last summitfinish, where he overtook Bertie for the podium spot, finishing ahead of Froome/Quintana.

Maybe i've just misinterpreted what youmean by back at it again. He seems quite likeable - not only thesmile but also the race savvy too.
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Nolte



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
?? not sure i understood, Chaves is being done for wheelsucking??

he forced the winning move with an acceleration on the final climb that distanced a seizing Bardet.. not sure that was luck. that he stayed behind Uran & Rosa in the final km, was good tactics!


I also think he made the attack 33km out that got him, uran, bardet and Rosa away.

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