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Vuelta 2016: Stages 15-17, GC Takes Shape, Sep 4th-Sep 7th
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mazda



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

HuwB wrote:
mazda wrote:
An interesting tidbit I have only just seen for the first time.

Orica have suggested the breakaway (the second surge by Contador) succeeded due to a crash by Van der Sande which caused the initial gap (I can't see this on the footage between 112 and 110 km to go).
Chaves and Keukeleire were just behind and would have easily been with the Contador group otherwise.

Still boils down to the fact that the second group had its chance to get back to the Contador group but I'm guessing they never expected them to keep going so never gave it full gas in order to catch up at the crucial moment.


This, you mean?



So, Froome also and that would have been that, for those crucial moments.


.........................[/quote]

Thanks Huw.
Isn't that point, at 112.3 km to go, Froome getting back on to the back of the large group of 40 or so, after the first attack ?

Later on (soon) Tinkoff go again and I get the idea that the 40 or so is split into two due to the crash. But most of the footage is from the front motorbike on a twisty road.

I will watch the footage from that point, but I have already watched it more than once (but now I know more about what I want to be looking for).

Can you identify where Van Der Sande is in that line ? Wink
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Boogerd_Fan



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Location: Bratislava, Slovakia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
From Cyclingnews ...

Quote:
Chris Froome (Sky) has argued that the 93 riders who finished outside the time limit on stage 15 of the Vuelta a España should not have been reinstated to the race, although he understands the commissaires’ decision to allow them to continue. All of Froome’s Sky teammate would have been excluded from the race had the rule been enforced.


That's quite powerful ...



hmm easy to say now.
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HuwB



Joined: 17 May 2007
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Location: Deep in the Black Mountains.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Bartali wrote:
From Cyclingnews ...

Quote:
Chris Froome (Sky) has argued that the 93 riders who finished outside the time limit on stage 15 of the Vuelta a España should not have been reinstated to the race, although he understands the commissaires’ decision to allow them to continue. All of Froome’s Sky teammate would have been excluded from the race had the rule been enforced.


That's quite powerful ...



hmm easy to say now.


Hopefully, the important sector of the cycling world will receive his words in a far less cynical manner.
Given the implications for him and the team, a powerful condemnation of both the action and race jury.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you here Huw.  Unless it was an extremely calculated team approved statement - which I don't think it was for a second - then he risks alienating most of his team, etc.  Credit where credit is due ...
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mazda



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a final look and the best conclusion is that Chaves at al weren't directly split off due to a crash, but that they were inconvenienced earlier and later found themselves in the wrong part when other splits happened.
But very speculative.

Contador looks behind at 111.3 to go and a small tree comes into view to block our view.
Another quick bend or two at 111.2 to go it is not so clear, but you can possibly see the making of the split.
By 110.8 to go there is a short straight and you can see 14 are clear.

It is interesting watching how Movistar seem to instinctively position themselves to discourage others coming up to help.
This is all very early while Froome is still distracted on his radio.
Do Movistar have better radios or is it just standard strategy or do teams just accept the given pecking order ?
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movistars tactics in the groups behind were textbook counterproductive measures... very interesting to watch and learn these moves how to disrupt the group
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mazda



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost guerilla warfare.
Speeding up on small climbs in order to disrupt the rhythm, make Froome do extra work, even to drop any domestic who had gone back for a rest after doing a long turn.
I don't seriously believe they were trying to get more riders up the road.

I didn't spot it, but it is hard to believe that they wouldn't have been enjoying themselves.
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Biosphere
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't really looked at the course until I was putting up the FP threads. Today's climb was one that struck me at the time add being potentially decisive. That was before Sunday's surprise though. Anyway a preview of the last 4km.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/h...spanas-ascent-to-mas-de-la-costa/
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mazda



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Large break finally gets away after an hour.
Gesink is bound to be one to watch out for again.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazda wrote:
Almost guerilla warfare.
Speeding up on small climbs in order to disrupt the rhythm, make Froome do extra work, even to drop any domestic who had gone back for a rest after doing a long turn.
I don't seriously believe they were trying to get more riders up the road.

I didn't spot it, but it is hard to believe that they wouldn't have been enjoying themselves.


Yep, they certainly were not making many friends.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was that exciting.
Back to standard fare.

A good win for Frank, nearly caught by Konig looking for consolation wins.

D'Artagnan and the 3 musketeers all come in together a long way ahead of anyone else in the GC group after a 2 km tussle where Froome was continually dropped.
Talansky invisibly rises to 6th and Scarponi up to 9th.
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HuwB



Joined: 17 May 2007
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Location: Deep in the Black Mountains.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be missing something.
I thought it was a deadly dull, slow motion grind.
The climb delivered as much as I expected: nothing.
An absolutely useless, overly steep big lump.

Since the announcement of the team folding, IAM can't stop winning.
Frank needed that after an awful season.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sarcastically referring to the fact that not a single post had been made for over 100km.  Rolling Eyes
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6th on GC in a GT isn't bad for Talansky.. compared to his usual self-destruct mode.
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Nolte



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
6th on GC in a GT isn't bad for Talansky.. compared to his usual self-destruct mode.


still time left for that Wink
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had one long siesta watching that.

Last edited by HuwB on Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mazda



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To quote Bio - "You're on the wrong thread"  Very Happy
But entirely understandable.

Good for Orica, they were "resting" today and got a win out of it.

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