justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index justcycling.myfastforum.org
Just Cycling
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Sticky Articles
Popular Topics
Giro 2017:Dolce,Cafe and Grappa! Stages 16-21May 23rd - 28th
FPs for Giro Week 1 + Jerseys: 5th-12th May 2017
Giro 2017:I Primi Piatti: Stages 7-10: May 12th-16th.
FPs for Giro Wk 2, stages 8 to 14: 13th - 20th May 2017
Tour de Romandie, starts Tues, 25th April
Critérium du Dauphiné: Sun 4th June - Sun 11th June 2017
Tour of Romandie
Giro 2017: I Secondi Piatti:-Stages 11-15:-May 17th-21st
Top posters
HuwB 14709
Bartali 13461
kathy 12847
CapeRoadie 10191
Mrs John Murphy 8673
Biosphere 8528
Nolte 6680
Slapshot 3 6542
Fontfroide 6062
smarauder68 5365
gerry12ie 5147
SlowRower 4990
Sooty 4913
bianchigirl 4726
cardinal guzman 4659
Boogerd_Fan 4590
Ralphnorman 4323
crash48 4283
mr shifter 4117
cyclingtv 3854
berck 3767
sheeponabike 3723
last km 3593
bbnaz 3515
naspa 3505
CAMPY SUPER RECORD 11
Page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The Garage
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bartali



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 13461


Location: Bartalishire

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote


_________________
OGGI CI DAREMO UNA BOTTA - F.COPPI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5147


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy  Very Happy
_________________
"I'm playing all the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 6062


Location: Herault, France

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seemed the quickest and easiest place to put this.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/11/...ing-wooden-campagnolo-derailleur/
_________________
Politics and Cycling in the South of France
http://thomasvasil.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Biosphere
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 8528


Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks a bit of a mess Confused

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bartali



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 13461


Location: Bartalishire

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed ... ugliest thing Campag have ever made.  Looks like it was made by you know who ...

It would look a lot bettr with a more elegant big ring IMO
_________________
OGGI CI DAREMO UNA BOTTA - F.COPPI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5147


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can just make out Super Record Campagnolo...
_________________
"I'm playing all the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bartali



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 13461


Location: Bartalishire

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile
_________________
OGGI CI DAREMO UNA BOTTA - F.COPPI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Boogerd_Fan



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 4590


Location: Bratislava, Slovakia

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks to me as though Campy tried to make a chainset look very similar to Shimano....
_________________
Has the new Boogie arrived??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bartali



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 13461


Location: Bartalishire

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ...it does look a little like a fishing rod reel. Wink
_________________
OGGI CI DAREMO UNA BOTTA - F.COPPI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Biosphere
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 8528


Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last chance to buy some good looking cranks before the 2015 inspired by Shimano mess hits the shelves.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/09...uper-record-rs-groupset-review-2/

Well for a few years anyway until they do an expensive limited retro edition Wink

Serious question. Fitted a new 11 speed Campag chain a fortnight ago and it was shipped covered in a very heavy grease. I cleaned as much as a cloth would take off surface, but refrained from trying to degrease. Was in two minds though.

Work colleague reckons I did right in leaving the grease deep in the link pins and so on and says he never degreases but cleans surfaces. Other chain maintenance stuff I read speaks of degreasing and the re-lubricating. What do others do?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5147


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bio,

I likes roller chain Very Happy and having spent most of my adult life selling bearings and chain I know a small bit about it.  Whether its fitted on a steel mill, a combine harvester or a bike the same principles apply - the chain will consist of pins, bushes, roller and plates and lubrication is critical.  There are a couple of things worth bearing in mind...

1. ALL chains stretch.  Except they don't   Wink they just lose their assembled tolerances as they articulate on the drive.  Sprockets smaller than 19 tooth on a 1/2 pitch chain will very quickly 'stretch' a chain so a bicycle cassette with small sprockets is a killer from an engineering point of view.  Of course running a chain off it's centre line (cross chaining) which a bicycle drivetrain does by default really knocks the engineered bollocks out of it completely, so really after just a few hundred kilometres a bicycle chain is no longer a precision engineered part.

2. Roller chain manufacturers all agree that the connecting link (pin and plate type or 'magic link')is the weakest point of a roller chain.  I have seen various figures over the years but 30-35% weaker is the estimate I use.  Its handy to have a spare link in your bag or pocket but when joining a chain use a chain tool and a pin that you have pushed out of the offcut (or old chain).  If you don't have a chain tool, get one Wink

3.  Your colleague is half right but very wrong.  The critical parts from a lubrication POV are the pin and bush and if your mate can find a way of lubricating them properly without degreasing then there is surely a job for him in Tsubaki.  Most bicycle lubes will advise that you clean off the rollers and plates after application alright but I have no idea why anyone would suggest this.  The rollers and sprockets engage in metal/metal contact so why wipe away lubrication film?  By not degreasing, your colleague is allowing gritty sludge to build up inside the pin and bush which acts like a grinding paste.  If things weren't bad enough already then that should take care of the chain life completely...   Wink

In the last few weeks I have unveiled the patented Murphymatic Lub-o-matic system Cool at home and results so far are promising.  As you can imagine I clean chains regularly and have tried different lubes but always had it in the back of my mind to try chainsaw oil as I reckoned it might be just about the right viscosity and I can get it at cost.  I also had a cunning plan for the application of said lube and it involved an old one of these filled with having first cleaned the chain with a decent degreaser (I use Jizer/Slicksol also at cost, I get a couple of years and 6 bikes from 5 litres).  

I have seen old chains that people take off that have stretched by nearly a full link, or 1/2" over 57" or so and that is way too inefficient for my liking. Ultimately, most people will go with what they are happy with and my over the top approach probably sounds laughable to some but for a few minutes cleaning routine on a Saturday it keeps the engineer in me happy.  And you did ask Laughing

Don't start me on bearings
_________________
"I'm playing all the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Biosphere
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 8528


Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ta for the lengthy reply. Have been meaning to respond. I do have a chain cleaning tool, but I've not put it into action with the new chain yet. I will clean it properly soon. Honest.

I probably didn't explain my colleagues point of view very well. He does wipe clean his drive train, but treats his chain as a consumable which he replaces fairly regularly and seems to think the grease it's shipped in is the best lubrication that can be done. I think he is probably a bit eccentric on this front though. On his last competitive event he used a Campag chain (he says they last much better than Shimano), a SRAM derailleur and a Shimano cassette. It was an eleven hours Alpine marathon thing. He was using a bigger cassette than the SRAM was specced for (but thought he'd get away with), and basically the derailleur fell apart on the first pass. The service car converted him to a single speed and he headed home.

I think I will stick with degreasing Smile

I am trying Finish Line's Teflon Dry Lube at the moment, which I'm finding interesting for it's additional chain cleaning properties since it seems to use a solvent as a dispersant.

I have sold my first born into slavery and bought the Campag 11 speed tool with the proceeds. It's lovely, but it's too big to bring with me on the bike, and I've never had a chain fail (even though I have a chain tool in the bike bag), so I reckon I will continue to take my chances and either the Mrs. can come get me or I'll use public transport if the chain breaks.

So where are you on ceramic bearings Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5147


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bio, I'm not convinced by your pal's mix and match approach to drivetrain components, and it looks like the evidence supports my lack of conviction Very Happy.  I have always thought that there were slight dimensional differences on Campag and Shimano/SRAM chains, certainly enough to produce the FUBAR effect that he experienced in the Alps (not really where you would want to be on the end of a catastrophic breakdown).  Although it is absolutely certain that neither Campag or Shimano manufacture their own chains, he can take it as read that the specific chain is designed to be compatible with its own components, so for reliability's sake he should stick with like-for-like.  If he has a Shimano cassette and a SRAM derailleur then a Shimano/SRAM chain is the way to go (Simano and SRAM are fully compatible).

Now, speaking of fishing rod reels...

Ceramic hub bearings will definitely roll faster.  They can be eye-wateringly expensive but they are proven.  Ceramic balls are harder, lighter, and much rounder, producing much less friction than their steel counterparts and although initially used for obscure, high-speed gaseous industrial applications some bright spark tried them in fishing reels a few years ago and found that he could cast far longer.  They became the rage and made their way to remote controlled competition cars and then to bikes.  

We sell bearings to quite a few bike shops, mainly because there are a couple of us who cycle in the job and the LBS' are comfortable dealing with us (we also do reciprical business with them, so happy days).  I got a call a couple of years ago from a guy in the West of Ireland who was looking for the 'lad who looks after the bike bearings' and he was after ceramic bearings to keep up with his mate.  Himself and his buddy had the same bikes with the same wheels, they were more or less the same mass and size but when on descents on their runs his mate would always finish ahead of him on his ceramic hub bearing wheels.  They took to freewheeling and the mate always got to the bottom well ahead, so they swapped bikes and the ceramics won.  I ordered him in a set and he rang a couple of weeks later to tell me he was now level or faster.  Proof enough.

Caveats.  The cost can be prohibitive so probably only merits consideration for a properly competitive rider looking for an edge.  Although rounder and truer, ceramic is brittle.  Steel is very forgiving and will deform under shock, ceramic will chip and break - so if your ride is subject to shock loads ceramics might damage more easily making an expensive item even more expensive to replace.  They are available in different configurations - full ceramic, and hybrid (steel rings and cage with ceramic balls) both with variations of material (different ceramic grades and different steel grades).  Hybrids are the best solution for road use as the steel rings are more durable and cheaper and the harder ceramic material actually polishes the steel rolling surface, so in a short time the raceways are actually smoother than a standard steel bearing.  Full ceramic are probably better suited to the track, and although I have seen stainless/ceramic hybrid options pitched at the MTB market they should be avoided at all costs.  Stainless steel is totally unsuitable as a bearing material as it is way too soft anyway and ceramic balls would literally cut through it like a knife through butter.

I will at some stage change out standard BB bearings for ceramics so I will hold judgement until then on BB but for hubs there is definitely advantages.  Expensive advantages, mind. Wink

This interests me http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/art...-really-are-more-efficient-37615/


_________________
"I'm playing all the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The Garage All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum