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Scottish Independence - what do you think?
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Should Scotland be an independent country?
yes
45%
 45%  [ 5 ]
no
45%
 45%  [ 5 ]
don't know
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11

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MAILLOT JAUNE



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Thank goodness for that. I am so relieved that the No votes won. I even had some porridge on Friday morning to celebrate (oh, and a glass of Bucks Fizz as well).
I must take my hat of to Alex Salmond - regardless of what you think of him - he has been the longest serving Political Party leader in the UK (as far as I am led to believe) and has always stuck to his principles (unlike others and some who don't even have any). It must be hard for him to have lost in his quest to realise his dream. But at least he tried.
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Fontfroide



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the people have spoken.  Within the limits of referenda and so forth.  Now we see if anything changes, or if there are any surprises.  Otherwise the next few years will be like a bad GT, no surprises, nothing much happens, and the same guys say the same things.  Hope there is some chance that Scotland might find a way to be a bit different than England.  But the results will encourage those who want nothing much to be different.  

And above all, the Scots can keep the English pound, making things minorly inconvenient for all the other Europeans who travel to the UK.  Assuming that the UK does not just ditch Europe as well.  The Little Island all by itself!
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MAILLOT JAUNE



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of note FF, it's not the English pound. The pound is the official currency of the United Kingdom (as well as several other territories). It's Scotland's pound as much as it is England's, Northern Ireland's and Wales's.

The problem with the aftermath is whether the usual lying Politian's will stick to their promises or will they stab us Scots in the back again and renege on the promises they made ! Watch this space, I guess.
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Fontfroide



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAILLOT JAUNE wrote:
Point of note FF, it's not the English pound. The pound is the official currency of the United Kingdom (as well as several other territories). It's Scotland's pound as much as it is England's, Northern Ireland's and Wales's.


I was both serious and half serious calling it the English pound.  But I do take your point.  

On the other hand the pound sterling is also used in Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, and Tristan da Cunha. It was also invented in England and "adopted" by other places as they were incorporated into the "empire".  The Irish pound and the pound Scots apparently got replaced by the English one.

I guess everyone likes "their" money, but I think the Brits are particularly fond of the pound, as if that means something special.  Personally I am convinced that some small percentage, or perhaps a deciding small percentage of Scots, were worried about what might happen if they were somehow not directly connected to the (English) pound, and had to invent some other kind of money.
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fontfroide wrote:
Personally I am convinced that some small percentage, or perhaps a deciding small percentage of Scots, were worried about what might happen if they were somehow not directly connected to the (English) pound, and had to invent some other kind of money.


Apparently just shy of half the "No" voters listed uncertainty over currency and EU membership as the #1 reason for voting as they did.

Unrelated to that, every age-group below 55 voted "Yes", so one would think that in the fullness of time, a natural majority in favour of independence will emerge. Ironically, the SNP government, having made some good political capital out of the quality and freeness of their care for the elderly, now have a vested interested in the pensioners starting to die off faster.

Another interesting aspect of the voting is that amongst the younger age voters, a majority of those in low wage jobs or (net) on benefits voted "Yes", with a majority amongst the professional jobs voting "No". An independent Scotland could, in future, end up being funded largely by the taxes of those who didn't want to be independent.

I think Confucius had it right...
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Slapshot 3
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlowRower wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
Personally I am convinced that some small percentage, or perhaps a deciding small percentage of Scots, were worried about what might happen if they were somehow not directly connected to the (English) pound, and had to invent some other kind of money.


Apparently just shy of half the "No" voters listed uncertainty over currency and EU membership as the #1 reason for voting as they did.


Correct, I want feck all to do with Europe, why break from one group of cheating crooks and shysters to join up with an even bigger bunch in Brussels??

Quote:


Unrelated to that, every age-group below 55 voted "Yes", so one would think that in the fullness of time, a natural majority in favour of independence will emerge. Ironically, the SNP government, having made some good political capital out of the quality and freeness of their care for the elderly, now have a vested interested in the pensioners starting to die off faster.

Another interesting aspect of the voting is that amongst the younger age voters, a majority of those in low wage jobs or (net) on benefits voted "Yes", with a majority amongst the professional jobs voting "No". An independent Scotland could, in future, end up being funded largely by the taxes of those who didn't want to be independent.

I think Confucius had it right...


As had been said... it was too soon, another 5 years would have seen a completely different vote
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in another 5 years the 50-55s will be 5 years wiser so will vote no.  Also, the SNP are just about still riding the crest of a wave.  5 more years of power and they will suffer like every government does.

I never understood how 'independence' and the SNP manifesto were so easily intertwined.  They don't have some sort of special right to power  ... it wasn't so long ago that they were in opposition.
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
I never understood how 'independence' and the SNP manifesto were so easily intertwined.


The SNP had holding a referendum in their 2011 manifesto presumably as a vote winner (rather than an intended policy) to woo marginal Labour voters. I don't think they actually ever wanted a referendum. It would have been preferable to be able to play the Tories as the bad guys refusing the "will of the Scottish people", rather than trying (or not trying as it turned out) to put forward a coherent plan for independence.
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
But in another 5 years the 50-55s will be 5 years wiser so will vote no.


One would think that the not all the current over 40s who voted "Yes" will turn into "No" voters, though. So eventually, the youngsters joining the electorate who are bold enough to vote "Yes" will offset the number of older folk changing the "No".

I think this is all somewhat academic, though. Surely the major Scotland vs UK issues (e.g. currency) along with EU membership status will have to be resolved up front next time, which will force the issue one way or the other.
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Slapshot 3
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Independence is their key aim and main focus of their policy, it is why the formed and the basis of the ideology. Independence is everything!
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pantanifan



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like our poll of 11 cycling fans was pretty reflective of Scotland as a whole! Coming up, how to solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the future of Islamic State and what to do about Syria and Ukraine, all resolved on a cycling forum   Wink

Last edited by pantanifan on Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SlowRower



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slapshot 3 wrote:
Independence is their key aim and main focus of their policy, it is why the formed and the basis of the ideology. Independence is everything!


I never got the impression that the SNP wanted independence in the truest sense of the word. More power, and less dependence but still with the safety net of the UK if things went wrong seemed to be what they wanted if the plan for the currency was genuine. (As opposed to being a plan to guarantee a "No" that could be argued as a vaguely plausible plan for an independent Scotland.)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantanifan wrote:
Looks like our poll of 11 cycling fans was pretty reflective of Scotland as a whole! Coming up, how to solve the Palastinian-Israeli conflict, the future of Islamic State and what to do about Syria and Ukraine, all resolved on a cycling forum   Wink


That's easy - resolving how Froome and Wiggins can coexist at Sky is a challenge more worthy of us!
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MAILLOT JAUNE



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with SR. Independence is the be all and end all of SNP, from what I understand.
Interesting to note though, that it is being reported that membership of the SNP is increasing at an amazing rate since the vote last week. Please don't put us through another Independence vote again!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAILLOT JAUNE wrote:
I agree with SR. Independence is the be all and end all of SNP, from what I understand.
Interesting to note though, that it is being reported that membership of the SNP is increasing at an amazing rate since the vote last week. Please don't put us through another Independence vote again!!!!


If Cameron and co make changes there won't be if they don't there will be another shout for Independence
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be academic if the English get to vote for independence .... Wink

I think my point about the SNP manifesto was misunderstood.  What I meant was that the proposition seemed to be that independence equates to a future in which SNP policies abound.  But in theory any party could be in power in 5, 10 or 20 years time ... so this socialist utopia that's been peddled could be very different.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
I think my point about the SNP manifesto was misunderstood.  What I meant was that the proposition seemed to be that independence equates to a future in which SNP policies abound.  But in theory any party could be in power in 5, 10 or 20 years time ... so this socialist utopia that's been peddled could be very different.


OK. I see what you mean.

From what I've read, the SNP has historically been more to the right than the left politically. I guess the references to some kind of utopian, "fairer" society in the referendum campaign were to highlight that independence would get rid of the English Tories and their "unfairness" (perceived or otherwise).

Even if there had been a Yes vote and the SNP had formed the government long term, I suspect the realities of the bond markets and needing to fund a large budget deficit would have redefined utopia. Even Ed Balls is talking about sensible finances in the next Labour (mis)management of the economy, so market conditions must be pretty serious!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fontfroide wrote:
MAILLOT JAUNE wrote:
Point of note FF, it's not the English pound. The pound is the official currency of the United Kingdom (as well as several other territories). It's Scotland's pound as much as it is England's, Northern Ireland's and Wales's.


I was both serious and half serious calling it the English pound.  But I do take your point.  

On the other hand the pound sterling is also used in Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, and Tristan da Cunha. It was also invented in England and "adopted" by other places as they were incorporated into the "empire".  The Irish pound and the pound Scots apparently got replaced by the English one.

I guess everyone likes "their" money, but I think the Brits are particularly fond of the pound, as if that means something special.  Personally I am convinced that some small percentage, or perhaps a deciding small percentage of Scots, were worried about what might happen if they were somehow not directly connected to the (English) pound, and had to invent some other kind of money.

The last few times I worked in Scotland I was given change in Scottish Pound Notes and then found that at home some shopkeepers wouldn't accept them. They were (are ?) Legal Tender in England and if I had six or more then a bank would change them without charges. No problems.
The Bank of England guaranteed their value as they were printed by Royal Bank of Scotland.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAILLOT JAUNE wrote:

Interesting to note though, that it is being reported that membership of the SNP is increasing at an amazing rate since the vote last week.
That's because Alex Salmond has dropped out as Leader.  Rolling Eyes


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