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TdF ’17, Stages 16-18: The Alpine Hike
Giro 2017:Dolce,Cafe and Grappa! Stages 16-21May 23rd - 28th
Tour 2017, Stages 1-4: Not quite the Lowlands, 1st-4th Jul
TdF ’17, Stages 14-15: Something for Le Weekend, monsieur?
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Boogerd_Fan



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Bratislava, Slovakia

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I wouldn't begrudge any of Tom, Pinot & Nibs their podium spots. Who knows what order though?! They all three deserve it for some very exciting and sometimes hard efforts. It's been cut throat, and on various days they all looked shaky or vulnerable, only to re-group and come out fighting afterwards.

Nairo may be in pink, but i think he may even slip off the podium tomorrow. He has shown an extreme passive style for weeks. He didnt make the difference on Blockhaus, and since then has just been happy to mark and defend.
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best GT in years in terms of excitement up to the last. And whats not to love about a classic TTer surviving in the mountains against a pure climber doing his best to get an advantage before the TT.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here here.
When did we last have a GT where going into the final day the GC was so close and delicately balanced that the likely winner was placed 4th and all 4 have some realistic chance of the win?
For me I'll be rooting for ABQ - anyone but Quintana. Sorry to anyone out there who thinks he deserves it.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Quintana deserves it least of everyone.  Personally I'm rueing Nibali's Sicilian pride at Blockhaus.  Had he rode more conservatively that day he might have being going into the ITT as favourite.  Oh well ... if he rode conservatively he wouldn't be Nibs Smile
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Mrs John Murphy



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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing is that before this race I saw Quintana as a new Andy Schleck, loads of talent but lacking the killer instinct of someone like Dertie Cont. In one sense he has changed - Dertie was willing to take advantage of a slipped chain, Quintana was willing to take advantage of someone having the shits.
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Severo



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A final stage TT is always a bit of a gamble but this time has paid well. Top 4 going in in their reverse order of TT ability. Thoroughly enjoyable.
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Mrs John Murphy



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah a lot of final TTs have been coronation parades
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Biosphere
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my reaction is a bit less enthusiastic to the last week. Dumoulin has been trying to manage problems and weaknesses for the last 5 days and might be able to do enough to win the overall today, but I'm not sure it would feel like the best man winning.

Quintana hasn't really done much (by a climber's standards) except follow wheels all week. He might hang on by virtue of a fatigued Dumoulin.

Nibali tried attacks but his legs aren't there to make them stick.

Pinot has been the most energetic of the top 6 and does merit a podium place, but didn't really look like an overall winner IMO (but then my reservation about the last week is that no one did)

Zakarin has been willing to try.

I'm waiting for Pozzovivo to turn up with a tandem for Zakarin and himself today. Really don't understand what he was up to all week. He needed to gain time on Zakarin, not mark him.

All in all it was entertaining, but I don't think I will remember it as a great edition. A course designed to attract TTer's who can climb or climbers who can TT, and I think it ended up falling between stools a bit.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biosphere wrote:
I think my reaction is a bit less enthusiastic to the last week ... Pinot has been the most energetic of the top 6 and does merit a podium place, but didn't really look like an overall winner IMO.


I agree.  Mostly a good final week and almost tee'd up for a good ITT - maybe another 40-60s into Dumoulin would have helped).

I think Pinot and Zacharin have looked active, but lets not forget that they are so close to the top three only because they were so far out of it to not be considered a real threat. Not there fault ... but hard to say they merit a podium even if they deserve it for plugging away.
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Nolte



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dumoulin's number looks like it is part of the kit itself while the others look more waving in the air?
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all about the podium now ... unless Dumoulin needs to take another poo.

What's with Quintana taking a drink 2 minutes not the ITT.  Bonkers.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cross that Nibali couldn't quite overhaul Quintana ... oh well.  No one gave him a chance three weeks ago ...
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Fontfroide



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
Cross that Nibali couldn't quite overhaul Quintana ... oh well.  No one gave him a chance three weeks ago ...


Not quite true.  The cover of Velo had him, Quintana and Thibaut.  Plenty of people had him as a potential winner.  He rode a good race.  Wonderful rider.  Quintana was overwhelming favourite and was disappointing, lack of attacking and panache.  

Bit sad for Thibaut, but he is so much a guy who rides well or not, depending on his mood, his mind, and so forth.  Capable of much, but always capable of failing.  Today he could have made the podium, but didn't ride a very good TT.

Good to see Dumoulin emerge.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
Cross that Nibali couldn't quite overhaul Quintana ... oh well.  No one gave him a chance three weeks ago ...


I agree with your analysis of Nibs on Blockhaus Bart.. he was riding some unorthodox style to keep up with Quintana that got found out nearer the top when the others passed him.

I hope that the Giro organizers (while being generally happy with a dramatic climax to the race) will look at this one as a failed experiment.. their route nullified a lot of the mountains -
- Sella Ronda stage in reverse would've been much more selective
- Stelvio 2x was interesting, but adding an extra descent afterward discouraged attacks.
- Of the summit finishes, riding over a number of mountain stages with little or nothing to gain but collect attrition in the legs - by the time we reached Fozia, no-one had anything left to really attack on the climb itself.

Praise to Nibali for being willing to give it a go. I'm not sure this route favoured him at all, but he worked with it to get a podium, a good result considering.

Big Tom could be expected to take time against the clock, but i guess no-one expected him to be climbing like a pure climber for 2 1/2 weeks. If it wasn't for poogate this would've been wrapped up ages ago, despite his best efforts to show some weaknesses in 3rd week.

Note: According to Big Tom's previous (and quite public) stance on TUEs and doping, Hopefully we can be pretty confident in the result here.

Quintana - seemed like he believed the hype that he can go to the Giro and win it without riding/racing 100%... on the days he should've made the difference he just didn't have it.. not sure why cos he has been smashing summit finishes in all the warm up races.

Pinot not impressive in either TT (unlike last year), I assume he's lost a bit of TT speed, in favour of specific climbing training - as yesterday showed.
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the best rider won the race and I don't think too many can dispute that.  He excelled in the ITTs as we expected, and went way out of his comfort zone on the climbs - and let's not forget he won a MTF and held the KOM briefly.  Quintana simply didn't go deep enough when he should have.

Having the final stage as an ITT added a bit of spice too, as GC contenders were best served by going against the grain and working together to try and eliminate the ITT guy.  For that reason yesterday was probably the best stage for me, with 5 of the Top 6 up the road and two TT'ers trying to pull seconds back behind them.

All in all the final week was very tense and exciting, but the first week was almost entirely forgettable...
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Fontfroide



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogerd_Fan wrote:

Pinot not impressive in either TT (unlike last year), I assume he's lost a bit of TT speed, in favour of specific climbing training - as yesterday showed.


I don't think he has gained anything in climbing, he has always been there or thereabouts, depending the day.  Where he has improved immensely (not that you could say that in the Giro, that is clear enough), is in the TT.  He used to be mediocre.  No hoper.  But like with climbing, one day he can beat them all in a TT (witness his jersey), another day he just can't ride well at all.  All this given he is a very very good rider.  Just lacks any kind of reliability and consistency.  Its like he has not quite grown up.  Still a kid who might be good, and might not be good.  

I still wish Nibali had beaten Quintana.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not many can train for both, and be fantastically wonderful at both, on pan y agua Wink
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was noticeable that pretty much every GC rider had a jour sans and that they were all running on fumes the last couple of days.  Encouraging.

I'm not sure if too much can be read into the chase yesterday comprising teams that were members of Velon, and that those being chased weren't - but it's possibly an interesting coincidence...
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
It was noticeable that pretty much every GC rider had a jour sans and that they were all running on fumes the last couple of days.  Encouraging.

I'm not sure if too much can be read into the chase yesterday comprising teams that were members of Velon, and that those being chased weren't - but it's possibly an interesting coincidence...


Agreed with the first paragraph ... felt a bit like the 1980's when anything could happen.  Re the second paragraph the most obvious conclusion would be that those being chased were the elite climbers and those doing the chasing were the Rouleurs + Yates who sooner or later is going to have to do more than follow wheels.
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HuwB



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Location: Deep in the Black Mountains.

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biosphere wrote:
I think my reaction is a bit less enthusiastic to the last week. Dumoulin has been trying to manage problems and weaknesses for the last 5 days and might be able to do enough to win the overall today, but I'm not sure it would feel like the best man winning.

Quintana hasn't really done much (by a climber's standards) except follow wheels all week. He might hang on by virtue of a fatigued Dumoulin.

Nibali tried attacks but his legs aren't there to make them stick.

Pinot has been the most energetic of the top 6 and does merit a podium place, but didn't really look like an overall winner IMO (but then my reservation about the last week is that no one did)

Zakarin has been willing to try.

I'm waiting for Pozzovivo to turn up with a tandem for Zakarin and himself today. Really don't understand what he was up to all week. He needed to gain time on Zakarin, not mark him.

All in all it was entertaining, but I don't think I will remember it as a great edition. A course designed to attract TTer's who can climb or climbers who can TT, and I think it ended up falling between stools a bit.


Saved me posting as it is the exact summation I would write, if I could.

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