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Biosphere
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 8627


Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Smaurader Trophy 2017  Reply with quote

So do we have enough takers for it this year? I've awoken from my winter slumber and I'm happy to carry on the role I've had in recent years - i.e. splitting the load on running it.

What gives me slight pause is we were scraping the barrel for entrants towards the end of last year and that kinda defeats the purpose of a weighting assigned to favourites.

Input also welcome on calendar. Same as before, a reduced program, different scoring, other ideas . . . ?

As a refresher, here's where what we did last year, so we can bounce ideas for this year for a couple weeks yet.

27/02: Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Belgium

05/03: Strade Bianche, Italy

06/03 - 13/03: Paris-Nice, France

09/03 - 15/03: Tirreno-Adriatico, Italy

19/03: Milan-San Remo, Italy

21/03 - 27/03 - volta a catalunya

25/03: E3 Harelbeke, Belgium

26/03 - 27/03: Critérium International, France

27/03: Ghent-Wevelgem, Belgium

03/04: Ronde von Vlaanderen, Belgium

04/04 - 09/04: Vuelta al Pais Vasco, Spain

06/04 - scheldeprijs (???)

10/04: Paris-Roubaix, France

17/04: Amstel Gold Race, Netherlands

20/04: La Flèche Wallonne, Belgium

24/04: Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Belgium

26/04 - 01/05: Tour de Romandie, Switzerland

06/05 - 29/05: Giro d'Italia, Italy

15/05 - 22/05: Tour of California, USA

05/06 - 12/06: Critérium du Dauphiné, France

11/06 - 19/06: Tour de Suisse, Switzerland

02/07 - 24/07: Tour de France, France

12/07 - 18/07: Tour de Pologne, Poland

30/07: San Sebastian, Spain

6/08 - 21/08: Olympics including all events

20/08 - 11/09: Vuelta a España, Spain

09/09: Grand Prix de Québec, Canada

11/09: Grand Prix de Montréal, Canada

19/09 - 25/09: Eneco Tour

01/10: Giro di Lombardia, Italy

09/10: Paris-Tours, France

09/10 - 16/10: World Championships, Qatar
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kathy



Joined: 17 May 2007
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Location: Formerly Hen Wlad fy Nhadau, now, Oliva, Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I'm back again, and happy to to carry on, but I think we need to attract more takers to make it worthwhile.
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Slapshot 3
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm here...and aim to contribute more this year too!
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mazda



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm planning on playing - frequently if perhaps not always fervently.
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ventoux



Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 945


Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I could be tempted... my record in the fantasy leagues for le Tour & the Giro is frankly appalling (always picking riders I like, rather than the ones I think will win.... doh!), but if it helps to add some cannon-fodder I'll give it a go.....  and who knows, I may get lucky  Rolling Eyes
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mr shifter



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: The Green and Pleasant Land

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Count me in again. providing I'm on time.

Now if you could have a closing start time as 12 noon GB time, that would help. ????
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gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5292


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bio.  I'll play of course, but agree it is a bit disheartening with low numbers.  Still, if the core of us play regularly it should be enough to maintain interest.

I'm open to suggestion and discussion on the scoring system but would probably need a refresher on the current system
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Nolte



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
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Location: irlande

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back again Smile

But we could really do with some more people in it
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Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 6190


Location: Herault, France

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be happily playing for some of the big Tours, assuming I don't have too many medical problems, which seem to eat up my time and enthusiasm.

As far as the scoring system goes, that is the main reason I dropped out.  After making some suggestions, I found my self constantly looking at what other people chose, so as not to mess up their chances and trying to optimise my own, given what others choose.  I tend to like systems where there are odds, and you pick cleverly trying to beat the odds.  But I don't really understand betting, as I don't do it in reality.  So I will just choose for the sake of participating and adding a few points to those who understand and love the system we have.

My favourite thing, I must admit, is to choose a team based on wisdom, knowledge and pure chance.  then just watch what they do throughout a race.  I don't necessarily have the focus, discipline and priority to choose every day, change riders two or three times for a GT and that sort of thing.

Having said all that, I really appreciate the several people who have taken on the job of collating choices, figuring out points and making the whole thing possible.

As for more players, maybe we have to actively recruit, by mentioning the group on posts we might make on other forums or sites.
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HuwB



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 14885


Location: Deep in the Black Mountains.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suck it and see?
I assume BF, Maffy and Bill will be in at some point.
Bart should be shamed into making the effort.
I can ask around.

I'm guessing everyone shares FF's sentiment to some degree, but if it makes everyone happy and all that...
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Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Herault, France

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always liked "suck it and see" as a philosophy of the highest order.  Near to that, "check it out".
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Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Herault, France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious.

Suddenly, I have to "sign in" to Inring and I have no idea how.  Password will be sent unencrypted, but they want a password to sign in to get the password?

Suddenly, it seems like sites I used to go to for a few hints about who is in form and what some learned gents think about who will win stages ... have shut down or disappeared.

Does anyone know or use sites that help out with having some ideas other than my own about races and who is in form and so forth?

Thanks for the help.
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mazda



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully these will have something.
cyclingnews
cyclingweekly
cyclingfans
M
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Biosphere
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 8627


Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fontfroide wrote:
Just curious.

Suddenly, I have to "sign in" to Inring and I have no idea how.  Password will be sent unencrypted, but they want a password to sign in to get the password?


Problem at his/her web hosting company. Awaiting them to resolve it. Being a Saturday evening we may be left waiting for a bit . . .
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maffy



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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Location: twixt tyne and that other stream over there

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happy to help with scoring, btw.

"Now if you could have a closing start time as 12 noon GB time, that would help. ????"

that seems somewhat insular and parochial when the people doing the sums aren't resident in gmt.

we all know that the long stage of t-a will start before nine in the morning, so do a night before pick. plenty of spanish races start late. and california… just leave the looserules as km0 time as per the roadbooks, like the betting sites do.

the early breaks very rarely win, and there's been some sensible self-regulation.

although it really doesn't really matter, even a late pick is cool. no reason for it not to be accepted even if it's after the actual start.

i like the current spreadsheet scoring. i don't particularly like boring old everybody picks the favourite. there's plenty other games for that.

not many obvious kittel doubles yet, due to scoring uncertainty.

splendid game sustains interest through the season. everybody picking obvious favourite is dull. gives an insight into actual individual thought of who may do well in some circumstances.

my own rules say "pick someone who might come in 4-6 and don't copy nolte"

plus, for a late picker, there's a tactical aspect. copy adversaries to negate their high scoring. if you're git-shaped.
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kathy



Joined: 17 May 2007
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Location: Formerly Hen Wlad fy Nhadau, now, Oliva, Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have we decided how we're going to score yet?  I can't put any results up until I know!
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Biosphere
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Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lean towards the way we've gone for the last few years as well. It all makes sense when Ventoux hits the jackpot with Bennett. And despite me knowing that logically I was probably better off sticking with Kristoff and letting the perennial law of averages do it's thing, the possibility of an unpicked Kittel windfall got the better of me (at least I think he was unpicked). The possibility of untold riches does funny things to people's judgement Wink

GMT sort of is a global standard* so was happy enough to accommodate a regular. Never got a feeling that late picks were an issue or nefarious, but yes the end of the neutralised zone would be optimum and make everyone feel things were fair. If possible.

On top of all that, Kathy's right. We need to start putting up scoring . . .

* It was better all round that history gave that one to the English, whilst in return the French gave us the lovely metric system and the footnote that is the Paris meridian  The Americans opting for foots and quarts is an early example of their shockingly bad decision making though Wink
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gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5292


Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH (and although it sounds like a copout) I don't really mind one way or the other.  Under the current system if I'm in early enough I'll make my pick and stand over it, if others are in before me I try to work around it and look for a bit of each-way value (GVA was a bit of a hardy perennial for me before he got superstar for instance).  

Noon is a sensible time to shut off in most instances but I think unavoidable late picks should occasionally be allowed in provided they are 'generous' and in the spirit of adding points to the pot.  

Most of all though, I'd prefer we all played where possible and keep the game, and the forum, alive.
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Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Herault, France

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will do my best to keep the forum picks alive, and pick as often as I can.  This period, beginning today, is one that always is tough for me.  Two big races, two stages every day, keeping track of who rides which and so forth.  But I will do my best, even though I reckon that due to not being well or not having time or forgetting, I shall finish last when October comes around.  But I might win a big prize one day with a lucky pick, and that will keep me happy.

As for the scoring method, I am happy to go along with the current method, although it has always made me uncomfortable.  I will also go along with any new method.  I am just not familiar enough with historic and current methods of betting to make a suggestion.
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Biosphere
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Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fontfroide wrote:
As for the scoring method, I am happy to go along with the current method, although it has always made me uncomfortable.  I will also go along with any new method.  I am just not familiar enough with historic and current methods of betting to make a suggestion.


Thank you for persevering and being flexible.

The history is that when we used to have about 20 people picking and say the likes of Cavendish was in his pomp, it got very monotonous on the days that it was going to be a sprint finish. Or an MTF with Contador and so on. Many, many people picked one rider and many, many people got the same points. That led to the current scoring (it was actually Kathy that introduced the prototype) and it worked well (IMO) when we had 20 or so people and a few people would share the spoils for the easy picking of a favourite, whilst the more adventurous were better rewarded when their pick scored. There were enough points in the pot and enough strategies of playing to keep it interesting.

Now we are less and people tend to not double up no matter what so the motivation for the scoring has broken down a bit (or more than a bit). I still lean that way, but before I would have defended it, whereas now I could also imagine the possibility that a simpler scoring might draw more people in.

At the end of the day, people playing is what we want though.

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