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Fontfroide



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Looks like they think there should be hills immediately … again.  Easy to see why the sprinters stayed home.  

How can Barguil and Teejay be so unready for the race?
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 Geniez
2 Fernandez +21
3 Valverde +26
4 Froome +26
5 Chaves +26
6 Quintana +32
7 Anton +32
8 Sanchez +54
9 Contador +54
10 Brambilla +54

Fernandez the new leader.
Contador 1'-20" down on Froome and Valverde after just 3 stages and without injury.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offence intended, but I think Bertie is way past his best.  A great rider in his prime, but notwithstanding the 2015 Giro he has looked a shadow of his former self for the last year.

Quintana again shows why he had to cheat his way to his only GT win.  Handed his arse on a plate by an old man riding his third GT of the year. #wasteofspace
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mazda



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, warms the heart to see Valverde hoovering up the bonus seconds.

How many of these non-mountain days do we have ?
Tomorrow, stages 8 and 9.
Only two flattish stages that I can see.

No wonder the sprinters are all at the sprinters classic elsewhere yesterday.
I saw that Ewan was given the win after you-know-who was DQed.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Fernandez is a Tour de l'Avenir winner and under 23 ITT champion - this might be interesting.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
No offence intended, but I think Bertie is way past his best.  A great rider in his prime, but notwithstanding the 2015 Giro he has looked a shadow of his former self for the last year.

Quintana again shows why he had to cheat his way to his only GT win.  Handed his arse on a plate by an old man riding his third GT of the year. #wasteofspace


Agreed. Don't think he has another GT in him.

I fear for you, in that Nairo might go on to win this one.
After all he didn't really turn up at the Tour, so he will be fresher than those that did.
Columbian 1-2, or will Froome confound modern wisdom by claiming two consecutive GTs ? I can't see him lasting 3 weeks, the climbing is never ending.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
So Fernandez is a Tour de l'Avenir winner and under 23 ITT champion - this might be interesting.


You think Movistar have it in themselves to not have Fernandez lead one or both of the other two up the longer climbs ?
They have never handled the capability of multiple threats in a useful way.
We can but hope.
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Movistar have lots of weapons at their disposal, but agreed that they have a history of not deploying them as single-mindedly as most teams would.  Filling places 2-10 seems to them a better result than the win! That said ... I don't think Nairo Q has the legs.  He looked good when unmarked in 2013, cheated his way to a Giro win in 2014 and capitalised on an ailing Froome in 2015.  Personally I think his best years are behind him. (What is he really ... about 48?)

I can see Valverde's name all over this were it not for his relatively poor ITT.  Froome's to loose though .... short of falling off they may as well give him the trophy now.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart, that's pretty strong banter vs. Quints... i think he totally screwed his prep this year, and subsequently is flying far under his expected performance. That cant be rectified in a month. He'll be back next year with a different program and hopefully better for it.

In March-May in 1 week stage races he was handing everyone their arses. Including Froome, Bertie.
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bianchigirl



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Froome keeps grabbing time early it'll be TdF 2.0 with no oncentive to do anything but sit in the jersey behind 8 teammates - cue hysterics from Carlton Kirby about 'greatest ever' bla bla bla

PS Sincerely hope this doesn't happen and that Contador et al go all in with nothing to lose - problem with the Tour was that no one took the race to Froome, here they just might

Oh and Chavez looked mighty fine and, now am back in France, chapeau Geniez Wink
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Bart, that's pretty strong banter vs. Quints.
Probably ... but were it not for attacking a neutralised race along with Roland he would have no GT wins and his TdF strategy to date appears to be wait until the last climb of the last stage ... hardly a great strategist. Sorry, but I think he is massively over-hyped.

I fear what BG fears ... a re-run of the TdF Sad
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movistar look a lot stronger than Sky's "C" team and they will do exactly the same and sit on the race.
The rest, frankly, do not look up to doing much about it, as yet.
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mazda



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Froome showed in the TdF he doesn't necessarily want to just win like that anymore. He was the strongest rider and knew it.
For me the proviso that he has ridden, and failed in Tour / Vuelta doubles could go either way.
Either he will fail again, or he might become more conservative if he feels he has a chance to win the double.

Today was interesting as Froome effectively let Movistar go at first, he was over 10 seconds and 10 positions back at 900 - 1000m to go.
Contador was still well ahead of him at that stage.
Something odd happened after Chaves attacked.
He and Quintana seemed to slow down and then Froome was back with the 4 of them.
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Nolte



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like chaves but he's not a rider who can gain an advantage attacking and then hold the advantage

whatever might be said about sky's tactics most of the time, one thing is that froome doesn't panic (ok maybe if his bike gets mangled, he does but that was an exceptional situation) and will keep riding within myself, not try to overexert to keep up with an attack but work back to it (actually geraint thomas also was doing this on the final stage in paris-nice where he kept his composure when in trouble and dropped on the last climb before working back).
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Bartali



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazda wrote:
Something odd happened after Chaves attacked.
He and Quintana seemed to slow down and then Froome was back with the 4 of them.
That puzzled me too.  Did Quintana and Chaves (and Piti who I think was just off the pace?) just not have it .... but Fernandez did??  Looked to me that they had the right gear selection.  Perhaps just an unwillingness to commit ... which wouldn't surprise me with both Quintana and Chaves.
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Biosphere
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
mazda wrote:
Something odd happened after Chaves attacked.
He and Quintana seemed to slow down and then Froome was back with the 4 of them.
That puzzled me too.  Did Quintana and Chaves (and Piti who I think was just off the pace?) just not have it .... but Fernandez did??  Looked to me that they had the right gear selection.  Perhaps just an unwillingness to commit ... which wouldn't surprise me with both Quintana and Chaves.


They weren't far off tracks stands from the slightly dodgy TV coverage. I guess neither of them are fussed and a spell in red lacks novelty / value for them now. Contador's collapse in the final km was surprising.

Nothing of note amongst the big names today.
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Boogerd_Fan



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartali wrote:
Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Bart, that's pretty strong banter vs. Quints.
Probably ... but were it not for attacking a neutralised race along with Roland he would have no GT wins and his TdF strategy to date appears to be wait until the last climb of the last stage ... hardly a great strategist. Sorry, but I think he is massively over-hyped.

I fear what BG fears ... a re-run of the TdF Sad



Fair do's - i agree his Giro win was a bit tainted with the way he distanced Uran. Also agree based on results his strong GT days (like @ Ventoux in 2013) tend to be in exceptional circumstances.

Maybe it's jus the potential that makes me think he can do a lot more. That's probably also half the frustration with him, cos if he lived up to that level more consistently, he should be a much stronger challenger to Froome anyway.

He has been racing already quite a while (if winning Avenir in 2010) - so maybe some burnout is actually causing a loss of his top edge? That doesn't explain Valverde though, who on same team, with same support, rides like he is the million dollar man.

I believe this year is a blip, and he'll come back to the high level we've seen before - but equally possible is the continued lack of anything like strategy or attacking intent from the Colombian. The latter would be a shame though.
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Bart re Quintana.  His Giro win was a bit shabby, and although he shaped so well before that and looked like he would win more, I think his race management since has been poor. And while it can't help sharing leadership with Valverde, he just seems too cautious and unable to execute any kind of meaningful plan.

If Froome has the legs, this is his to lose, I'm just not 100% convinced he has - yet...
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Fontfroide



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is always something dubious about comportment and commitment if  rider vanishes to "be with his family" in a faraway place, as often as Quintana does.  I think this is not cool in the modern day.

I also don't think his career is close to be on the downward slide.  But then I backed EBH a lot, so what do I know.
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HuwB



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard work watching this first week.
Nothing happening for long periods and at 5kph slower than the Tour.
Today has been particularly grim.

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