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Should the UK stay in the EU?
Yes
60%
 60%  [ 6 ]
No
30%
 30%  [ 3 ]
Don't know/ don't care
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 10

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gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
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Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I don't know if it has been widely reported, but there has been a huge demand for Irish passports from the UK in both the run up to Brexit, and especially since the result.  Demand is highest in the North (anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport, regardless of religious or political persuasion), and its reported that traditional Unionist areas are registering the highest demand.

Strange days indeed...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...t-application-forms-34830144.html
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mazda



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fontfroide wrote:
Those who think anyone can stop the flow of immigrants from war torn or poor areas to safe and rich areas will realise their error.  Those who think that more justice and fairness will be delivered by domestic political hacks than by Euro hacks, will see that they are all in the same game.  

Although secretly, I hope that the UK (minus Scotland by then) will be an example of how to be independent and "good" in a globalised world.

Many of the Anglo-immigrants I know are trying to get a permanent residents card, which of course they can get within a short time.  They think it will give them security, but sooner or later they might have become French, a project which some of them seem to be discussing.  

There are many scared, angry, upset people amongst the immigrants, although they call themselves expats.  Just like in the UK I suppose.

Some wise words.
The world is now a global place. Knowledge is more global. And what is known can be aspired to.
Human culture however lags far behind the new reality. Will it ever catch up ?

Justice and fairness are quite arbitrary and subjective concepts.
Numerically speaking it seems intuitive that the smaller a group of people then the easier it is to achieve a common sense of both (e.g. In our house if someone breaks a plate or spills milk on the carpet then the subsequent outcome is both fair and just).
Can any political system solve the issues inherent in human society ?
Perhaps human society cannot systematically exist in a state where we are both "free" and everything is fair and just, well that's what I believe.

Why would someone living permanently in France object to becoming French - or more accurately being labelled as French ?
It is only a small change to the rules, a nudge on how to play the game.


Last edited by mazda on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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mr shifter



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: The Green and Pleasant Land

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
I don't know if it has been widely reported, but there has been a huge demand for Irish passports from the UK in both the run up to Brexit, and especially since the result.  Demand is highest in the North (anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport, regardless of religious or political persuasion), and its reported that traditional Unionist areas are registering the highest demand.

Strange days indeed...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...t-application-forms-34830144.html
They won't hand in their British Passpoorts though.
So it must be something of  value.  Rolling Eyes
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pantanifan



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
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Location: land of the magyars

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazda wrote:

Justice and fairness are quite arbitrary and subjective concepts.
Numerically speaking it seems intuitive that the smaller a group of people then the easier it is to achieve a common sense of both (e.g. In our house if someone breaks a plate or spills milk on the carpet then the subsequent outcome is both fair and just).
Can any political system solve the issues inherent in human society ?
Perhaps human society cannot systematically exist in a state where we are both "free" and everything is fair and just, well that's what I believe.


Completely agree.

mazda wrote:

Why would someone living permanently in France object to becoming French - or more accurately being labelled as French?


I guess nationality and self-identity are more important to some people than others, just imagine being in Eastern Ukraine today or Northern Ireland and trying to impose a nationality on people that they don't want to accept...
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SlowRower



Joined: 22 Nov 2006
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Location: 62 West Wallaby Street, Wigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe that the "Brexit" debate has degenerated so far that photos of empty Marmite shelves are making the headlines. Where will it end?
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maffy



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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Location: twixt tyne and that other stream over there

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-...an-in-the-gutter-uk-17464981.html obviously. are we nearly there yet?
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Biosphere
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Location: Der Schweiz

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

£10 for a photo of an empty beer can! You can buy a real can full of beer for a lot less than that Wink
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maffy



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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Location: twixt tyne and that other stream over there

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brewed under license in the uk.

tenner for the pic at the moment. but we have to import the internet it's printed on, and alamystockferter have a duty to their sharegolders, so after that tenner's converted back to tenge it'll be 50ukps for that picture of an empty beer can next week.
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gerry12ie



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
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Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleedin' Frogs coming over here chucking their empty cans... Wink
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mr shifter



Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: The Green and Pleasant Land

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
Bleedin' Frogs coming over here chucking their empty cans... Wink

I remember in the days that I had a "Black" Britsh passport that buses in Paris had solid rubber tyres and the toilets were just a hole in the floor.
The can would have blocked the toilet and nobody would have known why the floor was wet because the smell would have been the same.  Rolling Eyes
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pantanifan



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
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Location: land of the magyars

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like we can revive this discussion again as Nicola Sturgeon announces another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the referendum-mad UK's decisions, those of us living in the EU ("continental Europe") might start checking out our Scottish heritage (mine is undisputed, though my accent still needs some work) to make residence permits, etc. easier as a Scottish EU citizen than a rump-UK non-EU citizen!
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mazda



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing about #GE2017

So I'll reply to a comment from Bio in the Around the World forum.

Biosphere wrote:
I did enjoy the cognitive dissonance moment last night when the 1st  Newcastle result came in and smooth Kellner unable to get away from the polling and all the ways the raw numbers are tweaked was saying the Conservatives were still possibly on for majority of 100, whilst the mad scientist type Curtice with his on the day measurements and sticky up hair on one side was saying but it's still a swing to Labour Smile


I recall seeing that Smile

Those swings are very crude. Like in Scotland where Cons were taking votes off SNP and allowing Lab to win seats, they still present it as a swing from SNP to Lab.

I know the media try to present the result as a communal conscious narrative but in essence the swing from Con to Lab is a numerical mismatch caused by both parties mopping up UKIP voters (why would everyone assume 'Kippers would vote Tory ?), compared to Lab grabbing some Tory Remain protest voters along with, presumably, an increase in registration and turnout among the youngsters - Canterbury, Reading East

I mean things could not possibly have gone worse for the Tories (manifesto blunders, leader being found out, wrong seats targetted) and all they lost in the end was 13 seats.
As pleasant as he is I think JC is deluded if he really thinks he won the election.

Still, a hung parliament seems like a good result even if we have regressed to a divided, two party state that might persist for some time yet.
Roll on the next election !
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the outset the election was a pretty naked power play - an opportunity to port back to 1983 and rule absolutely from the front.  Yes, there were manifesto blunders and May simply couldn't convince in the way Thatcher did back then, but in simplest terms the play was rejected - and quite convincingly.  The Tories went all in on a hand that just wasn't good enough and are very lucky to be still sitting at the table for the next deal.

I can't explain the SNP collapse, but nearer to home it is a little depressing to see the continued upward curve of SF and DUP in the North, to the point where they now completely dominate the political landscape having swept all the moderate vestiges aside.  Even the most hardline Tories might find the evangelical DUP uncomfortable bedfellows in time.  And as hardline as the DUP would like to be they are going to make a hard Brexit very difficult, as although they were passionately 'leave' they will want the softest Brexit possible to facilitate frictionless trade with Ireland.  They might end up being more help than the Tories need... Wink
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gerry12ie



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It didn't take too long for someone to twist Frankie Boyle's gag and describe the DUP manifesto as 'basically the Bible, but with fortnightly bin collections'... Very Happy
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Slapshot 3
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
From the outset the election was a pretty naked power play - an opportunity to port back to 1983 and rule absolutely from the front.  Yes, there were manifesto blunders and May simply couldn't convince in the way Thatcher did back then, but in simplest terms the play was rejected - and quite convincingly.  The Tories went all in on a hand that just wasn't good enough and are very lucky to be still sitting at the table for the next deal.

I can't explain the SNP collapse, but nearer to home it is a little depressing to see the continued upward curve of SF and DUP in the North, to the point where they now completely dominate the political landscape having swept all the moderate vestiges aside.  Even the most hardline Tories might find the evangelical DUP uncomfortable bedfellows in time.  And as hardline as the DUP would like to be they are going to make a hard Brexit very difficult, as although they were passionately 'leave' they will want the softest Brexit possible to facilitate frictionless trade with Ireland.  They might end up being more help than the Tories need... Wink


The SNP collapse is very simple, the Sturgeon woman back tracked on promises of a once in a generation referendum the day after Brexit, she's done nothing else but talk about it since to the entire detriment of Scotland, she's forgotten her job. People have remembered this and that has seen the massive swings away from them in some areas, my own constituency over 21% swing to the tories.

Douglas Alexander famously deposed in 2015 by the wee lassie Mhairi Black was very cutting in his reasoning basically said "in 2015 that people everywhere had been talking about Nicola Sturgeon, now they all talk about is "that bloody woman or the Nippie Sweetie"." he's totally correct.




Ruth Davidson has been quietly impressive over the same period saying and doing the right things, if she can gain some disassociation from the Tories in the south she could do some good things up here. Odd we have three women leading the three main parties up her..... and in Patrick Harvie and Willie Rennie two old sweetie wifes leading the greens and the libs!!
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pantanifan



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Location: land of the magyars

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerry12ie wrote:
From the outset the election was a pretty naked power play - an opportunity to port back to 1983 and rule absolutely from the front.  Yes, there were manifesto blunders and May simply couldn't convince in the way Thatcher did back then, but in simplest terms the play was rejected - and quite convincingly.  The Tories went all in on a hand that just wasn't good enough and are very lucky to be still sitting at the table for the next deal.


Looking from afar, it seems like it was the weakest choice of potential leaders in living memory. May was obviously robotic, without any policy plans (except for "dementia tax") , and didn't deserve to win, Corbyn has had a great election and reached out to new parts of the electorate, but the suspicion remains that if he were to make it into power the IMF would have to be on standby. Farron was anonymous and Nuttall was worse than anonymous. In short, the British people were right not to give overall power to anyone, but who knows what Brexit means now?
Re. DUP: it could be disastrous for the "peace process" in Northern Ireland, but I think the Tories are more likely to be defeated by their own MPs than by DUP...

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