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pantanifan



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 714


Location: land of the magyars

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Men In White!  Reply with quote

i.e. this is the new cricket thread in the coffee lounge...
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where were we?

What does Shah have to do to be picked? For that matter given the dearth of strokemakers in the England line up why no recall for Ramps? He might have failed before but that was about 8 years ago. Look at Sidebottom who was a total failure the first time round.
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Monty28



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean Mark Ramprakash? Thought he'd left cricket for ballroom dancing. Laughing  Laughing

Seriously though, as he's going to be 39 this year I guess even this current myopic selection mob might see that as just a touch too regressive.

Like the guy though....shame he couldn't hack it in test cricket....reminds me of my Lancastrian Frank Hayes....century in his first test and sod all after that. Embarassed
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramps might be 39 BUT his form has been second to none over the last two years. Don't forget that Gooch had his best years when he over 35.
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crash48



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Location: Down by the River

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes that step up is just too much-even if it is only a 5 percent increase in the ability of players.

While you may be able to hide your weakness or the bowlers are unable to exploit that weakness, in test cricket they can exploit it all the time.

Take Hick for example, or Bevan for Australia. Great players at domestic level but just don't have the whole game at test level-even if it is one flaw you will be found out.

If you are a bowler and you have weaknesses then forget it at test level as you will be lit up like a pinball machine.
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Remember the School Captain?
Success was a matter of time,
I can hear her now, as she screams,
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This the problem with saying to Harmless 'go back to Durham' because he can still frighten county batsmen and take wickets.

How much would it cost to bring back Cooley?
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Monty28



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was just looking up Cowdrey and Graveney....both played Test cricket in their early 40s....but Ramps isn't a Cowdrey or a Graveney.

I have no problem with Ramps, I just think over the years we've gone back to the 'older' players too often (remember David Steele, or Brian Close playing the Windies - or may have been Aussies - off his chest, long before lids came into use).
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK with the exception of Shah, who else is there who is in form and a strokemaker?
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crash48



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Location: Down by the River

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
This the problem with saying to Harmless 'go back to Durham' because he can still frighten county batsmen and take wickets.

How much would it cost to bring back Cooley?



You had your chance and you treated him like shite, so he is never going back and is intent on seeking revenge from now on...
_________________
Remember the School Captain?
Success was a matter of time,
I can hear her now, as she screams,
"Greg! You missed the stop sign!"
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the son responsible for the sins of the father?
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Monty28



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 566


Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
OK with the exception of Shah, who else is there who is in form and a strokemaker?


It's a fair question, MJM....which I can't answer. Embarassed  Embarassed Much more importantly, if the selectors can't answer either, and the only recourse is back to Ramps, then we're even more screwed than I thought. Ramps would only realistically be a stop-gap measure to try to get some strength back into the batting line-up....but who is the future?

Do you have any suggestions?
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Sooty



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4913


Location: Dear old Blighty

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZZZZZZZ.....zzzzzz....ZZZZZZZ.....uhuh?....cricket???....zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ.....
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooty - remind me next time you start wanking off over some obscure musician to come and take a shit through your letterbox.
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Sooty



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dear old Blighty

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing  Laughing Laughing
Roll on summer and we can let you loose on Matt Slater again!
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crash48



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 4283


Location: Down by the River

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody work always get's in the way. As does the Liverpool game.

Something has to happen to English domestic cricket for the English team to be a force over the long term.

I really like county cricket as you can see some great players, but it needs re-structuring some how.

While you have less teams in the top flight than previous years- and a system of going up and down at the end of the season -the teams (and the players in those teams) in the next division are still getting the same money and often being picked from those divisions.

Too many teams and therefore not enough competition for places as there is room for everyone. Moreover, too much cricket is played. You can only be at peak form and maintain intensity for a limited number of games. Once there is too many games the 'hardness' of the cricket suffers.

It may really be a case of there being too much money in county cricket. In Oz domestic cricket-apart from the top 15 or so players-there is not that much money. You have to perform to move up or keep your place. The same system also applies to NZ and SA.

Shah looks like he might have something, but unless they give him a go how are they going to know? Strauss has been found out by good bowlers. He only has a few scoring shots so you just make sure you don't bowl there and let him get frustrated. Strauss will score runs at times because he does have some talent, but you don't want a player who is in and out of the team-like Hick.
_________________
Remember the School Captain?
Success was a matter of time,
I can hear her now, as she screams,
"Greg! You missed the stop sign!"
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Beasley



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 1856



PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem in England is there isn't a natural tier between club and international.

Australia have their states and South Africa their provinces but for us that's 25-odd major counties... Thus talent is spread, dross is rife & proof twenty heads isn't always better than seven!
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Mrs John Murphy



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Stepping on Cadel's dog

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that there is a huge gap between the levels and this leads to players getting bad habits. Hick was a classic case of someone who was very good at punishing bad bowling - the problem was that at test level you don't get much bad bowling. Similarly, there are a lot of average batsmen out there for above average bowlers (ie Anderson, Plunkett) to feast on.
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crash48



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 4283


Location: Down by the River

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does all the moneny come form?

There is a lot of it in county cricket and that is one of the problems-good for the players however.

As both of you stated there is too much rubbish in the top teams, but I see know way of stopping that unless they just cull the curent system. However, there was quite an uproar when they made the small changes a few years ago, so making big changes would be out of the question.

I guess you could have a system such as Oz or SA where you had South East, North East, North West, West, etc throughout the land, and then make the counties like club sides in Australia.

I can just hear the outcry now Wink
_________________
Remember the School Captain?
Success was a matter of time,
I can hear her now, as she screams,
"Greg! You missed the stop sign!"
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pantanifan



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 714


Location: land of the magyars

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The money comes from the one-day games and from the ECB sponsorship deals, as far as I know.
What about this for an idea, leave the one-day structure for the counties to decide on (and share out the winnings), cut back the county championship to around half the no. of games to allow for a short regional competition, made up of a selection of England-qualified players from the best the counties have to offer, broken down as follows:
North (Derby, Lancs, Yorks, Durham)
Midlands (Warwicks, Leics, Notts, Northants)
Wales and West (Glam, Gloucs, Som, Worcs)
South (Essex, Kent, Middx, Surrey, Sussex, Hants) - this could be split into 2 South East and South West?

A grand final to be played between the top 2 teams over 5 days.
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crash48



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 4283


Location: Down by the River

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a good setup.


_________________
Remember the School Captain?
Success was a matter of time,
I can hear her now, as she screams,
"Greg! You missed the stop sign!"
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