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Biosphere

World Championships: Ponferrada, Spain, 21- 28 Sept. 2014

Well we should kick this off really shouldn't we. Haven't really watched much today, but here are the results:

1 Specialized - Lululemon 0:43:35.35
2 Orica - Ais 0:01:17.56
3 Astana BePink Womens Team 0:02:19.64
4 Optum P/B Kelly Benefit Strategies 0:02:25.75
5 Boels Dolmans Cycling Team 0:02:26.33
6 UnitedHealthcare Professional Cycling Team 0:02:43.80
7 Bigla Cycling Team 0:02:55.54
8 Team Giant-Shimano 0:03:45.05
9 Hitec Products 0:04:01.38
10 Rusvelo 0:04:07.66
11 Tibco / To The Top 0:04:10.25
12 Btc City Ljubljana 0:04:19.93
13 Topsport Vlaanderen - Pro - Duo 0:05:45.82
14 Rabo Liv Women Cycling Team 0:10:05.32

Must go check to see who put the KOD on the Rabo women. Vos may be grateful she was dropped and avoided the accident.

Nice to see BMC get the title for a change having gone close on the Cauberg two years ago. Chink in Martin's armour for the ITT?

1 BMC Racing Team 1:03:29.85
2 Orica-GreenEdge 0:00:31.84
3 Omega Pharma-QuickStep Cycling 0:00:35.22
4 Team Sky 0:00:37.29
5 Tinkoff-Saxo 0:00:46.59
6 Movistar Team 0:00:51.37
7 Trek Factory Racing 0:01:01.47
8 Team Giant-Shimano 0:01:26.60
9 Cannondale 0:01:28.56
10 Garmin-Sharp 0:01:44.80
11 FDJ.fr 0:02:05.08
12 Astana Pro Team 0:02:12.38
13 Team Katusha 0:02:14.35
14 Belkin Pro Cycling Team 0:02:28.16
15 Lampre-Merida 0:02:30.08
16 Rusvelo 0:02:44.81
17 Topsport Vlaanderen-Baloise 0:02:45.29
18 CCC Polsat Polkowice 0:03:36.90
19 Team Europcar 0:03:52.06
20 Ag2r-La Mondiale 0:04:05.91
Boogerd_Fan

Velits - made the difference ??
kathy

There is an FP thread here with links to tomorrow's startlists.

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/sutra222933.php#222933
Biosphere

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Velits - made the difference ??


Or maybe Dennis?
Biosphere

A reminder that the FP thread is up and running (linked by Kathy above).

So Ryan Mullen fell half a second short yesterday!! Seems to have been undone by the closing uphill stretch.

Doing the FPs this morning, still find it very, very surprising that GB did not enter anyone in the elite women ITT. Surely with the healthy state of GB cycling and a relatively massive budget, even if there is not a medal contender, they could find someone credible and respect the event?
gerry12ie

Must have been heartbreaking for Mullen to watch the Aussie make up 20 seconds on the final third.  

http://www.stickybottle.com/lates...half-a-second-is-hard-to-swallow/
Slapshot 3

Saw bits last night.... was gutted for the boy, big future!!
gerry12ie

Well well Bradley
mazda

Comfortable win, although he looks completely jiggered sat in a directors chair waiting for confirmation.
SlowRower

Good effort by Sir Brad!

No need for him to faff around on the road any more. Smile
gerry12ie

Actually chuffed for Wiggins.  Not a bad way to taper off, is it? Wink

Should be enough to tip those Clinic fuckwits even further over the edge too, so a good day all round I reckon Smile
SlowRower

gerry12ie wrote:
Should be enough to tip those Clinic fuckwits even further over the edge too, so a good day all round I reckon Smile


They are warming up nicely!
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
Actually chuffed for Wiggins.  Not a bad way to taper off, is it? Wink

Should be enough to tip those Clinic fuckwits even further over the edge too, so a good day all round I reckon Smile


LOL.
Nicely put, Gerry.
The result certainly rattled a few cages in the racing section too.
More like a kindergarten playground, than a cycling forum.
Biosphere

Biosphere wrote:
Martin is rather underpicked IMO. Wiggo getting more picks than I expected . . .


Well it seems like the only KOD I inflicted was on myself today. Would that be classed as a sub-variant of Autoerotic Asphyxiation Wink

Not bad from Wiggins at all. He will have an exceptionally well rounded Palmarès at the end of it all.

Is there now going to be the rather odd situation of the elite ITT rainbow jersey not getting an outing next year if he's turning his back on stage racing?
Slapshot 3

bits of Twitter have gone ballistic as well, forgot it was on today!!! too many shifts not enough kip!!
Bartali

Good to see Wiggins do what he does best!
gerry12ie

Biosphere wrote:
Biosphere wrote:
Martin is rather underpicked IMO. Wiggo getting more picks than I expected . . .


Well it seems like the only KOD I inflicted was on myself today. Would that be classed as a sub-variant of Autoerotic Asphyxiation Wink

Not bad from Wiggins at all. He will have an exceptionally well rounded Palmarès at the end of it all.

Is there now going to be the rather odd situation of the elite ITT rainbow jersey not getting an outing next year if he's turning his back on stage racing?


Well the Olympic Road Champ never wore the jersey so maybe its the new trend Wink
mr shifter

gerry12ie wrote:
Biosphere wrote:
Biosphere wrote:
Martin is rather underpicked IMO. Wiggo getting more picks than I expected . . .


Not bad from Wiggins at all. He will have an exceptionally well rounded Palmarès at the end of it all.

Is there now going to be the rather odd situation of the elite ITT rainbow jersey not getting an outing next year if he's turning his back on stage racing?


Well the Olympic Road Champ never wore the jersey so maybe its the new trend Wink
There is no Olympic Jersey anyway so he didn't have some "Gold" shoes made either.  Rolling Eyes

Wiggins could have a more complete well rounded Palmares if he was able to win a "Monument". ???
Slapshot 3

mr shifter wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
Biosphere wrote:
Biosphere wrote:
Martin is rather underpicked IMO. Wiggo getting more picks than I expected . . .


Not bad from Wiggins at all. He will have an exceptionally well rounded Palmarès at the end of it all.

Is there now going to be the rather odd situation of the elite ITT rainbow jersey not getting an outing next year if he's turning his back on stage racing?


Well the Olympic Road Champ never wore the jersey so maybe its the new trend Wink
There is no Olympic Jersey anyway so he didn't have some "Gold" shoes made either.  Rolling Eyes

Wiggins could have a more complete well rounded Palmares if he was able to win a "Monument". ???


Isn't that his cunning plan in Roubaix??
gerry12ie

Men's U23 live on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9CEO5fBK5o#t=11428

May be Geo-restricted in your neck of the woods mind...
gerry12ie

If anyone is watching the U23s and wondering who the giant is, it's our Conor Dunne - all 6'8" of him...


gerry12ie

Final lap and Australia have managed to hold it more or less together for Ewan, although they are starting to look tired.  Expect explosions...
Nolte

just one left in it for them i think they said
gerry12ie

Bystrom for Norway on his own - FF has a new EBH Wink
gerry12ie

Not a bad haul by the Norwegians there - three in the top six!

1 Sven Erik Bystrom (Norway) 4:32:39
2 Caleb Ewan (Australia) 0:00:07
3 Kristoffer Skjerping (Norway)  
4 Tiesj Benoot (Belgium)  
5 Sondre Hoist Enger (Norway)  
6 Iuri Filosi (Italy)  
7 Hernando Bohorquez Sanchez (Colombia)  
8 Ilya Davidenok (Kazakhstan)  
9 Silvio Herklotz (Germany)  
10 Mathieu van der Poel (Netherlands)
Fontfroide

gerry12ie wrote:
Bystrom for Norway on his own - FF has a new EBH Wink


Yes indeed, must read up on him.  Or listen to the interview and see if he is (almost certainly) displaying a bit of character.  I wish EBH the best in his new team change.

And what happened to Keung?
HuwB

I watched some of both races today.
I say some, not because of the sheer length of coverage, but because both were desperately dull affairs.

This course will have to be raced much harder, much earlier, to get rid of the sprinters in the main event.
If they do (which I seriously doubt) it looks the perfect Cancellara course.
No wonder he's gone all eggs into this basket.
gerry12ie

Yeah, it looked that way to me too.  The Aussies got it back together on every lap until the last when Bystrom just rode away from tired legs - and even then Ewan still got up for second.  If Gilbert or GVA attack hard on that last climb it might suit Boonen to be dragged along by whoever left that is still chasing. I think there will be a big enough bunch at the end with a few genuine fast finishers still around.  Kristoff has had a good year so far hasn't he? Wink
Nolte

90k left in womens
crash involving vos 45s, bronzini 1:57, lucy garner and others. at last lap, they were working back to it
Slapshot 3

Bad crash....
HuwB

Yes, that was one heck of a crash.
Have to say that one or two riders reactions weren't the best.
Massive flying down the road fall by the NZ girl was a fair while after the dust had settled with just about everyone else.
Bartali

What channel .... I can't find it?
Bartali

Got it .... never thought to look on BBC1!!
Fontfroide

Bartali wrote:
Got it .... never thought to look on BBC1!!


I was a bit surprised too.  The female commentator seems to know a bit.
Nolte

phew, we have it set as an other channel bbc2 england for the finish
Nolte

i hope all 4 are kicking themselves for their trackesque sprint, especially elisa
Bartali

What a waste ... what were they thinking!!
ventoux

Bartali wrote:
What a waste ... what were they thinking!!

there was a moment when Vos turned to look back,and Armitstead was on her blind side... what a moment to go for it... but she didn't...  Embarassed
gerry12ie

Schoolgirl errors by Vos and gang, but finally some points for me  Very Happy but what a shockingly dull course this is.  It will take something really special tomorrow to break it up and I just can't see it happening.  Well that's about 6 hours of my life out of today that I won't get back, luckily the sporting event of the year (part II) is on in a few minutes to give the day a bit of gloss*

*Big sticks and small balls and nothing to do with golf Wink
ventoux

gerry12ie wrote:
Big sticks and small balls and nothing to do with golf Wink

Very Happy  Very Happy
Fontfroide

(tune for the Marseilaise)

Allez les Bleues.
Cocorico.
PFP rules OK.

Admittedly aided by some faffing about by the front four, but nevertheless she was there and won.  Fleche Wallon, second in Giro, French Cross Country, Road, ITT, VTT champion and now Worlds … not a bad year and she's only 22.
Nolte

i think lizzie armistead was saying that emma johannson caused problems as she wasn't working with the break

longo borghini wasn't working either but she was the worst sprinter and had bronzini behind. you had 3 main riders in the group of 4, without medal possibilities behind, essentially they messed up.
HuwB

Wow, a FP fluke. Smile
Should have known FF picked the Frenchie, but I hadn't looked back at p1.Embarassed
Too timid when it counted.
Vos watch cost all 4.
That final climb is only 1.2kms at 5.5%.
Going to be hard to get rid of the likes of Kristoff and Degenkolb
if they follow a similar race plan.
Nolte

yes, the racing has to be made harder than it has been. when doing the cobblestones team, i have put in a number of sprinters for it.

though maybe some one like greg van a or cancellarra might try to spring a surprise.

algeria and morocco controlling the peloton . will they be there when i come back at half 12?
no. heck, last year when i came back from my cycle, none of the irish riders were left :d
HuwB

Major go slow as the usual break of no hopers get over a quarter of an hour lead.

Crash avec, Navaduskas, Betancur and...........................Nibali.
Must have fallen asleep at the wheels.
HuwB

Sums up the story of my fp season:



The Norwegian team car and, of course, the spare bike, wheels etc of Kristoff and EBH. Embarassed  Laughing
Fontfroide

HuwB wrote:

That final climb is only 1.2kms at 5.5%.
Going to be hard to get rid of the likes of Kristoff and Degenkolb
if they follow a similar race plan.


I am looking forward to the last descent being dry, and seeing who can do the job on the curves.  We shall see who the best descenders are, as the climb does not seem steep enough to sort out anything much.  Wouldn't it be funny to see Fabian get about five seconds at the top and descend like fury to time trial to victory!  Worked for the young guys.

Sadly I suppose we might have to wait until the last climb for the real action to break loose.  Just in case, I will try to watch the last three circuits.  Enough time to check out the jerseys.

Really curious if Bouhanni makes it to the top of the last climb with the pack.  If he does, then his future seems clear enough.  Classics.  And dead curious if Sagan is going to really race.  Don't think any of us picked him.
Nolte

i think one picked sagan.
seems a bit more active.

bouhanni showed some good legs in the vuelta not just in sprints, i think he was 5th on the stage daniel navarro won, which had a tough hill at the end and a fragmented bunch
Nolte

is dan martin still stalking the back of the peloton

geschke, kennaugh, swift, visconti, boassen hagen are up front
gerry12ie

Tony Martin going long.  Very long and pulling away
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
Tony Martin going long.  Very long and pulling away


Been enjoying the sunshine on my bike do just tuned in. Is Martin not just doing a job for Degenkolb?
Bartali

Nibali still in there .... despite what ES say!!!
Bartali

This French wheel sucker is pissing me off!
Nolte

he rides with europcar for a living, so its no surprise he doesn't take turns :d
Bartali

Italia with numbers ... but probably no ace to play today.
Nolte

belgium moving to the front.

i would expect an italian to move on this one, well they have no sprinter so no other choice but van a or gilbert will follow.

damiano caruso though has an ok sprint but can't compare to others here

kwiatkowski attacks
Nolte

gilbert working for van a in the small chase group
Bartali

In enjoyed that .... good race
Nolte

i think kathy enjoyed it most :d
HuwB

The one man who showed the courage to go early, wins!
As it should be.
(especially as Gerrans won the battle of the late, late guys)

An awful course produced some awful races and racing.
At least this one had 7kms of contender action, not 4, like the others.

Bartali wrote:
In enjoyed that .... good race


The obviously haven't seen much of the other races.

All the same.
gerry12ie

So it turned out to be one for the puncheurs after all.  Fortune favoured the brave and the new champ finished as cool as you like.  Chapeau Michal, but the road races were, in general, very poor.
Fontfroide

Well then.  The young Pole did the business.  Good timing, great execution.  Deserved the win.  But I have to say that there was not a whole lot to watch during this race.  I am not even sure there was seven k of action.  Maybe one k while Kwiatkowski made his move, then another k at the top of the last hill while the seven or so guys made a wee gap.  But after that, well, I waited for something to happen and just missed it.  Very respectable win, but seems to me more of the peloton might have done something.  Could they all have been more knackered than Kwiatkowski?

Good pick for Kathy.  Small reward for the work she and her helpers do, but enough to justify some fine Spanish wine tonight.
Boogerd_Fan

Cant begrudge kwiat for the win... he had the balls to throw caution to wind and attempt something other than a bunch sprint.

Gerrans finishing best of rest tells me all need to know about in case he didnt stay away.

Sagan disappointment again. They need a real game plan how to get more slovak riders in the race befoee entertaining the chance to win it.. a la Cav in Denmark.
Mrs John Murphy

Flower Power
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
So it turned out to be one for the puncheurs after all.  Fortune favoured the brave and the new champ finished as cool as you like.  Chapeau Michal, but the road races were, in general, very poor.


But for Kwiatkowski and 3 seconds, we would have had this:

8. NOR KRISTOFF Alexander KAT 07"
9. GER DEGENKOLB John GIA 07"
10. FRA BOUHANNI Nacer FDJ 07"
11. SUI CANCELLARA Fabian TFR 07"
12. GBR SWIFT Ben SKY 07"
13. ITA COLBRELLI Sonny BAR 07"
14. AUS MATTHEWS Michael OGE 07"
15. LTU NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas GRS 07"
Biosphere

I'm not sure whether 9, 19 or 29 team mates would have much much difference for Sagan this year. Cancellara had 2 and was mixing it in the main bunch sprint.

Hats off to Gilbert for hammering it for GVA.

Big hats off to Kwiatkowski. When I saw Kathy had FPed him, I thought it was quite a bold prediction, and not someone I would have thought of as I didn't think it was selective enough a course for him. His two part attack was quite a shrewd move.

Poor form from BBC for not showing the podium presentation and spending half an hour after the race being as parochial as a UKIP conference.

In general not a good course for racing and watching, but I don't mind the principle of giving the sprinters a sniff of a medal every now and then.
bianchigirl

question: should the world champion be decided in a one day race?
Mrs John Murphy

What is the alternative? A UCI style 'world tour champion'?

Let's be honest, unless they set the course on HC climb the champion will probably never be a mountain goat so it is either going to be a sprinter or a one day specialist.

An alternative question - should a rider be punished because his fellow passport holders haven't got enough points? ie Swift has more support than Sagan because of the performance of riders who aren't even part of the team.
Biosphere

bianchigirl wrote:
question: should the world champion be decided in a one day race?


I think it's generally accepted that it's a one day event for better or worse.

If the alternative is a globalised series of one dayers à la F1, which Sagan wraps it up halfway through the series without having won a single event, I don't even want to discuss it Wink
Fontfroide

bianchigirl wrote:
question: should the world champion be decided in a one day race?


Without working out an alternative in detail, it does seem like it should not be a one day event, without any high mountains.  Just as it should have some hills, and just as there should be some sprints.  Does that mean three races in a week, one flat, one hilly and one at the top of a climb?  Seems possible.  Scoring system might take a bit of thinking.

It is a big prize.  A one day race is a one day race.

Anyway, it does seem a shame it is decided on one day on one course.

Furthermore it is a shame it is decided during seven kilometres over a nit terribly hard climb then one downhill.
Mrs John Murphy

I suppose the only alternative would be to make it a 1 week race.

Although that would mean that the likes of Frodo, Kittel etc would never be WC again, but then the present situation makes it highly unlikely that a mountain goat will be WC. (I am trying to think of the last climber who won it).
Fontfroide

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
I suppose the only alternative would be to make it a 1 week race.

Although that would mean that the likes of Frodo, Kittel etc would never be WC again, but then the present situation makes it highly unlikely that a mountain goat will be WC. (I am trying to think of the last climber who won it).


I am thinking of three races during one week (with rest days).  With some kind of scoring system that rewards those who are overall pretty good.  So a specialist sprinter who cannot get up a hill much less a mountain would NEVER win the WC.  So what?  But guys like Kwiatkowski and many others can do well enough everywhere.

As for climbers who have done well, Valverde springs to mind immediately.  A GC rider par excellence who can sprint as well.  He almost won numerous times.
Bartali

bianchigirl wrote:
question: should the world champion be decided in a one day race?


Absolutely ... same as athletics etc.  If we want the best rider of the year, then we have had the UCI Road World Cup and Super Prestige Pernod International etc.
Bartali

HuwB wrote:


Bartali wrote:
In enjoyed that .... good race


The obviously haven't seen much of the other races.


I thought the women's race was awful, but I think there was good racing from 60km out.  True the decisive move was near the end, but there was much more to the race than that IMO.
Boogerd_Fan

As a spectacle i quite like the idea of the 1 day and 1 parcours to decide the years champion. Of course they need to be quite strict in course selection. This year proves it is not how much total climbing is included but the severity of the climbs
gerry12ie

There is something special, for me, about the race and the jersey.  Some of the very best have never won it, some of the more average have.  A few have raced brilliantly in it, but more often haven't.  Still, there is something about the throw of the dice on the day that makes it special - that mix of maybe a course that doesn't quite suit, the extra distance, different support to what the riders are used to at their teams, but most of all that decisive attack that decides the race.  It is something the very best have instinctively and Flower nailed it perfectly today - any earlier and he would have been caught or any later and he would have been in with the rest of the strong men.  

I reckon he will do the jersey justice and it might not be his last year to wear it either.
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
HuwB wrote:


Bartali wrote:
In enjoyed that .... good race


The obviously haven't seen much of the other races.


I thought the women's race was awful, but I think there was good racing from 60km out.  True the decisive move was near the end, but there was much more to the race than that IMO.


Bart, the mens juniors and espoir races were poor affairs too - I didn't see the women juniors so I can't comment.
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
Bartali wrote:
HuwB wrote:


Bartali wrote:
In enjoyed that .... good race


The obviously haven't seen much of the other races.


I thought the women's race was awful, but I think there was good racing from 60km out.  True the decisive move was near the end, but there was much more to the race than that IMO.


Bart, the mens juniors and espoir races were poor affairs too - I didn't see the women juniors so I can't comment.


That one was easily the worst.
I blame Rai for covering them all from start to finish! Embarassed  Laughing

As to the question posed.
The possible alternatives are to re-invent the very forgettable PT jersey at WT level and put the rainbow on that, or go back to the old World Cup race format, with selected races forming the basis for a points scoring system.
Jersey to the overall winner.

The problem with both is that they exclude, or don't relate to nations.
Making the WC even more of an elite, trade team affair, than it is now.
Fontfroide

Actually, even in athletics there is more than ONE race that gets the various athletes to the final final.  Admittedly all on the same terrain.  But in many sports there are playoffs, leagues, various games that finally end upon a final final.  In cycling, there is just the one race, on the one day, on the one terrain.  All with the same weather.

I am not saying I even care that much.  Nor that I have figured all the details out.  It just seems that for cycling, there should be more to make "the world champion" than one day, one attack at the right time and then a winner.  Still, most people who know cycling know there is more to the sport and to being "a champion" than one race.  But whatever it means, the young Pole has won it and can race the rest of his life with the stripes because he made the right move at the right time, on the last hill.  Good on him.

But whaddya think of a week with three races, of the three kinds of terrain with a scoring system.  Stupid or possible.  Flat, hilly and at the top of a big hill.  Winner on points gets the jersey.  Leave the ITT as it is.  Leave the other races as they are, except maybe the women's elite, which could be on other days.
maffy

gerry has it right, as usual.

do the points thing and it's incomprehensible to the average viewer. gives the comms another excuse to explain and simplify instead of doing their jobs.

imagine your tellybox or poor internet stream explaining the rider numbers of the countries qualification levels over and over again. with questions from social meeja. like an excitable cartoon.

---
...half-watched all of them on rai. didn't think the scenery was all that bad....
Biosphere

Kwiatkowski's Strava file

http://www.strava.com/activities/200661439/analysis
mazda

Kwiatkowski would seem to be a worthy winner - after all he can do all aspects of road racing pretty well and he timed his attack perfectly.
mr shifter

.
We all saw the Polish Team and wondered WTF are they up to including Philippe Gilbert whose comment :-
Quote:
Nobody, though, was on good a day as Kwiatkowski, who ought to have alerted the world to his intentions when he set his Polish team to work for several laps midway through the race, an effort that pegged back much of the early break’s 15-minute advantage.

“At the start, we were all wondering why the Poles were riding because it was so early,” Gilbert said. “Of the nine Poles, four or five were from continental teams so we knew they weren’t going to keep it up for 250 kilometres.”

When Kwiatkowski careered away on the long descent of Confederacion on the final lap, Gilbert wondered if the Pole had played his hand too early,
mazda

I like LeFevre's comments.

Quote:
"I'm very proud. Michal is a loyal rider and a super class act. On Wednesday he trained 240 kilometers with the Belgians and did another hour after. He was convinced that he could win.

"At 24 everything is yet to come. Sometimes I have the impression that at Sagan is already a bit over it, and that it has yet to begin for Kwiatkowski."
  Evil or Very Mad

I wondered when Sagan would get a mention  Smile
HuwB

Pauline Ferrand-Prévot wins a second rainbow jersey:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/...ionships-2015/elite-women/results
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
Pauline Ferrand-Prévot wins a second rainbow jersey:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/...ionships-2015/elite-women/results


It's a great race - starts at 10:20 in link below


Link

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