| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| kathy |
Vuelta Stage 13 - Berja-Sierra Nevada, Sat 12th Sept
Looking at the profiles, I can't help but think it might have been a more exciting stage if they'd stopped at the top of the Monachil instead of going on to the Sierra Nevada. |
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| mr shifter |
After 8.6 KM's they have the KOM 1st cat Points
Followed by the Hor Cat points at the top. Don't see that very often and the only one that springs to mind. The Telegraph on the way up to the Galibier. |
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| Beasley |
For reference, time difference to Valverde:
Cadel Evans +7 Robert Gesink +18 Tom Danielson +51 Ivan Basso +53 Sammy Sanchez +1:03 Regarding the in win, Sanchez and Danielson are non-entities, for me. Sammy may be a factor if he in a similar position (time wise) come the weekend, but even then it's a long shot. Basso needs (minimum) 45s on Valverde and Evans to be safe going into the final TT. Basically, over the next seven stages, he needs to take two minutes. Where? 13 and 14, obviously. 19, too, but that's a downhill finish, so maybe not. 16 and 17 are flat, whilst 15 and 18 could go either way, the latter especially. That not a lot of racing, when you think about it. Gesink's the wild card, but he'll need more than a second here and there plus bonus time. Like Basso, he needs to go for it. |
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| HuwB |
Nicely summerised by Beasley.
Apparently, the Ragua is a beast, but will only serve to select the breakaway bunch. Look, there is only one way to ignite this stage and it's not going to happen. A group of top contenders are first of all going to have to attack, on the Monachil. Then, they are going to have to agree to work together, up the SN and work hard. Only then, can the Caisse train be destroyed and make it mano-a-mano. Any individual "rough stuff" on the "man killer" Monachil, can be ignored and brought back on the more temperate climb to the finish. Look at Valverde's early attack of Cadel Evans on the Dauphine's Ventoux and there, you have the difference. Not a soldier in sight. |
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| Bartali |
Caisse's problem is not the train ... its whether Valverde can stay aboard. | ||||||
| cardinal guzman |
Just to put the parcours into a proper perspective.......
These roads are just a jolly in the sunshine. |
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| maffy |
nocentini, seb chavanel, vigano, capecchi, gerrans, rollin out
36km Time differences The main bunch is now 5.32 down on the leaders, which hold a 1.36 advantage over the chasers. The leaders are: TAARAMAE Rein (079), MONCOUTIE David (071), TXURRUKA Amets (009), MOERENHOUT Koos (157), RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin (058), GARCIA DA PENA David (215), PALOMARES VILLAPLANA Adrian (087), HOOGERLAND Johnny (203) and WEENING Pieter (159). can't be as dull as yesterday, can it? RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin (058) is currently the virtual leader of the race. Ag2r leader VALJAVEC Tadej (011) has dropped out of the 2nd group and is waiting for the bunch. maybe it can |
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| HuwB |
Hah! So Caisse are playing "chicken", with the rest. Now way they are going to let "Katyusha" Rodriguez take a shed load of time, from his big boss.
Must mean things are afoot. Leakygas too, although Kreuziger has done b-all, this race. As things stand at the moment Joaquin Rodriguez would take the gold jersey from team-mate Alejandro Valverde. The leading group of nine is now 7.14 minutes ahead of the peloton and Rodriquez is just 4.01 off the overall lead. The second group is 2.10 minutes? behind and contains big names like Ballan, Bennati, Kruziger and Cancellara. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
The big loser of any move like this is Cuddles because it puts pressure on him to make a move. Ultimately he stands as the biggest potential loser from this kind of move. Everyone knows that he is a nutjob and this kind of pressure makes him collapse in a heap of tears. |
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| mr shifter |
Perhaps he takes it out on the "Dog" 
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| HuwB |
Hey Mr S....did I see you FPing Moncoutie? 
AND THEN THERE WERE THREE! Weening (Rabobank), Taaramae (Cofidis, le Credit par Telephone), and Moncoutie (Cofidis, le Credit par Telephone) are the sole leaders after the rest of the group dropped back to the second group on the descendent. Meanwhile, we have had another big name withdrawl. Óscar Freire, who has won seven Vuelta stages in his career, has withdrawn from the race. So a Rabobank man in the leading back but their main sprint threat is done. Peloton at 9'-35"... Cofidis pulling another Tour de L'Ain? |
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| mr shifter |
Yeh, that's the plan, but can he do it. I saw those mountain points 8.6 Km's up the final climb and thought, this he has to go for even if he gets caught near the top. |
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| kathy |
Freire and Boonen abandoned? I have the TV on TVE in the other room, although coverage has not yet started, they have just been talking about the race. | ||||||
| kathy |
Moncoutie and Moerenhout have dropped Taaramae. | ||||||
| Bartali |
Leaky on the front - don alejandro at the back! | ||||||
| HuwB |
Yeah...Valverde looks more than a bit uncomfortable, or is he doing an acting job?
He doesn't like the Monachil. Cost him dear, a few years back. |
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| Enchantress |
Just like yesterday, Don Alejandro cruising around the back and the bike procession continues |
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| Bartali |
But today Basso isn't shadowing him. Screws being turned today! | ||||||
| Bartali |
TD first to crack! | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Yeah if I were a GC rider and the gold jersey is cruising 10 bikes back, then you have to attack. | ||||||
| Bartali |
Samu gone
Cunego gone |
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| Enchantress |
Danielson & Samu & little prince gone | ||||||
| Bartali |
Vaverde next???? | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Dunno, he's got Rodriguez waiting for him. I would bet Cuddles falls off | ||||||
| HuwB |
Bye bye Tommy D......again. Cunego, Sammo. Gradient kills
Rodriguez called back.....problemo Caisse. |
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| Enchantress |
THis is the steepest part - why are Birillo & Piti in procession speed? | ||||||
| Bartali |
Wheres RK Huw?? | ||||||
| Enchantress |
RK is up front | ||||||
| Bartali |
Just got the answer - he's with Basso | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Samu's GC candidacy looks to be about finished | ||||||
| Bartali |
Still 18km to go!!!!! | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Evans cracks or rather a puncture. | ||||||
| Bartali |
Evans puncture or cracked? | ||||||
| 70kmph |
lol | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Bets on Cuddles punching a reporter or mechanic>? | ||||||
| Bartali |
Basso doing a great job IMO | ||||||
| kathy |
So who will Cadel headbut today? His team car seemed to be far behind. | ||||||
| mr shifter |
Great ain't it and Evans doing a Lemond. I am a happy bunny, whoopee. Be Lucky It's even better that Harmon is almost Crying ! |
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| Enchantress |
Dunno yet, I mean to say he has a great stage I'd have to see him put in a serious attack here soon? |
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| Enchantress |
Ostensibly the team cars were behind Samu & Cunego. While the neutral car was definitely spanish/italian driven 
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| Bartali |
Then there were 5 | ||||||
| kathy |
Chess on wheels 
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| Bartali |
They need to start riding again! | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Mosquera goes | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
Gesink looks like in a very small gear compared to Valv & Basso... I think he's done a good job today defending his position. There are harder climbs where he'll be more effective than this long drag.
Go Gesink!!!!!!! |
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| Enchantress |
Repeat of stage 8, except Moncoutie got his win today. | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
hahaha harmon leading the funeral service:
"todays full of highs and lows, the high for Moncoutie the dreadful dreadful dreadful low... for the Australian Cadel Evans"... humble pie Harmon! |
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| Bartali |
That will have taken a lot out of evans ... wonder what he'll be like tomorrow! | ||||||
| kathy |
I'm very glad I decided to watch TVE and not ES today - I couldn't have borne it! Well done Moncoutie. I wondered whether he was taking it easy yesterday in preparation for today, or whether he'd blown a gasket. Great ride by Samu after he lost contact on the steep bit of the Monachil. |
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| HuwB |
Haha Harmon thinks anyone who found that boring is just a sheep.
Baaaaaa....I say. 
Cuddles's puncture was the only point of interest. Otherwise, the usual deadly dull grind up SN. Well done Moncutie and all that. Valverde's Gods shine down, as the bonus seconds, very predictable come his way. There's a big argument for ending such a stage atop the Monachil. I'll bet that would have generated some attacking fare, but the top is just too small. They could always come down the other side, to that open plain bit. Anyhow, attrition and bad luck firm up the podium spots, without a meaningful dig. |
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| HuwB |
Oakland's Jan got him started. Her's was the only comment today. She thinks this race is very exciting. |
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| Mysterion |
Is this what may come to be known as a classic biopassport stage? At least until they all find some way to really beat it. There have been a lot of stages like this in GTs this year. |
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| kathy |
I think it's exciting as well, Huw. I take it you don't like chess. I like watching them looking at each other and wondering who's going to try something.
Mosquera is just being interviewed on TVE. He can talk for Galicia! It's a pity he was hampered by his fall earlier in the race, because he is a genuine attacking rider, who knows he must put time into the others before the TT. He is still talking
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| kathy |
Ezequiel has just shut up. Alejandro being interviewed now. Sounds satisfied with his day's work. | ||||||
| HuwB |
Funnily enough, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Steady wattage output, nothing too spikey. Just let your figures do the work. Nice 'n' safe.
Kathy: Not when I can see all the moves, well in advance. I had Valverde figured all along. Sure, very clever, but....... Each to his own, but that was yet another overly long grind. Same as the Tour. I think Mysterion has nailed it. Best stage so far? Cati, by a country mile. Just 4 and a bit kms, but the what we saw was fascinating. Not a word I'd attach to the past two stages. |
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| Bartali |
Todays GC ....
1 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) 2 Robert Gesink (Ned) 3 Ivan Basso (Ita) 4 Cadel Evans (Aus) 5 Samuel Sánchez (Spa) 6 Ezequiel Mosquera (Spa) 7 Joaquím Rodríguez (Spa) 8 Paolo Tiralongo (Ita) 9 Daniel Navarro (Spa) 10 Johnny Hoogerland (Ned) Vacansoleil 0:10:23 Yesterday's GC .... 1 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) 2 Cadel Evans (Aus) 3 Robert Gesink (Ned) 4 Tom Danielson (USA) 5 Ivan Basso (Ita) 6 Samuel Sánchez (Spa) 7 Damiano Cunego (Ita) 8 Ezequiel Mosquera (Spa) 9 Daniel Navarro (Spa) 10 Joaquím Rodríguez (Spa) Quite a shake up .... don't think that was boring. Maybe not DDL attack attack attack, but liquigas executed a solid plan today (as did Caisse) ... good stage IMO |
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| mr shifter |
Will the Gods shine for three weeks though. 
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| Beasley |
Nice to see the vultures out already...
I'm sure that were the nationality of the rider different, the same vultures would be raging about supposed unsportsmanship. Evans should be applauded for only losing 70-odd seconds; at one point, it looked like he would have blown completely. The win may be off the cards, but he's still in the hunt for a podium. |
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| Mysterion |
You've got to give Olano credit for trying to design an exciting parcours though.
Anyone remember the Pandera stage from 2003? That was exciting. Valverde came from literally nowhere to catch Heras and Cardenas within the last few hundred meters. There is a downhill in the last few km right before it kicks back up to the line and he took a lot of momentum down the hill to sweep past the leaders. The look on Heras' face when Valv came past him was priceless. |
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| mr shifter |
Without getting into any intended controversy, (it is though) The best Attacking Stage I've seen in many years is Roid. Landis TDF. whoops. |
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| Bartali |
Agreed Beasley ... essentially he held the gap after the puncture. But what has it taken out of him ... mentally and physically? | ||||||
| Mysterion |
You know with Cadel's temperament he used up a huge amount of energy panicking and getting stressed during the wheel change. |
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| Bartali |
I don't agree for all sorts of reasons not least the fact that CSC and T-Mob simply let him go until it was too late. 2006 Giro had lots of good attacks ... as did this year's Giro. |
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| Enchantress |
I think tomorrow we'll see more aggression - Birillo, Gesink, and Mosquera had best do so as it is the last MTF with none of that trio having a shot against Samu or Evans in the TT.
In fairness, Valverde seems to be riding a very tactically astute race. He's taking bonus seconds with his sprints and not taking too many chances as in the past. He can't be blamed if his rivals are content to largely sit next to him. Gesink has had a few digs, as has Mosquera so those two have not disappointed. Basso has seemed content to ride his best tempo without putting in a serious attack. His I'd say has been the most curious approach of the top GC men. |
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| Bartali |
I'd say Basso is in great shape, but probably not charged and that means tempo riding is his best bet. Running out of days, but today his tempo put Cunego, Sanchez, Danialson and Evans (lucky) to the sword.
IMO Gesink looked weak(ish) today. Hardly any work all day and nothing left to counter Valverde or distance Basso at the end. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Bollocks. Cuddles was quite content to try to wheelsuck his way back to the group. Secondly, no one put the hammer down when he was having his puncture. Fact is they fucked up the wheel/bike change. Cuddles made it to the Sanchez group and then expected Sanchez to tow him back up. Serves him right. Basso - again - curious tactics. Just seems to ride a tempo, a couple of very small digs but nothing more. Great ride from SS given the position he was in at one point. Good to see EM attacking. Piti looked very solid. Amazing what riding in Spain does for him... |
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| Bartali |
What are you suggesting MJM?
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| Enchantress |
Well, pretty soon Spain might be the only place Valverde rides in... | ||||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
Hopefully. Spain does have a long record of providing a safe haven for dodgy criminals. Welcome to the Costa Del Dopa. |
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| mr shifter |
I wonder myself and reason he is just getting the racing miles in (especially the mountains) to Launch a big attempt to Win in the Giro and TDF next year. He will take anything that comes his way here, but this is still his first full year back into racing. He looked very comfortable today with everybody around him, out of the saddle and dancing their pedals and he just sat there. To me he looked pure "Class" and it seems he won't jump about just yet and maybe in the third week he may do so. ? Be Lucky |
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| Bartali |
Agreed Mr S. He's on record as saying that its a looong race and time will tell. | ||||||
| HuwB |
One positive to come out of Cadel's awful luck, with that appalling wheel change.
Whereas, all he had to do was sit and wait for the ITT, he now has to go into Dauphine mode, at some point; legs willing. Mosquera pulled a few seconds back, too. So, we still have 6 riders with 100 seconds or so of the lead. Surely, somewhere along the route, this race will explode into a flurry of attacking action? |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
It's not awful luck. It's karma. |
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| MS |
I believe Sanchez climbed the Sierra Nevada faster than anyone. Nice recovery.
Bartali: I always respect your opinions, but this Basso love is perplexing. The double?!?!? He'll never win a single GT again. |
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| Fontfroide |
That is what I thought, until I checked the standings of the last time trial. Evans didn't do that well and the non- TT guys didn't do that badly. And at the end of the race, we have no idea who will be most wasted. So I am very cautious about following casual wisdom about who will gain or lose time in the ITT. For my money, they all need to attack. Full Results (leaving out those who are not GC contenders) Samuel Sánchez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:00:47 Tom Danielson (USA) Garmin-Slipstream 0:00:50 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence-Lotto 0:01:02 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:01:05 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0:01:33 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Saxo Bank 0:01:43 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas 0:01:43 Ezequiel Mosquera (Spa) Xacobeo Galicia 0:02:19 I would say Valverde has a shot at Evans. I would say Gesink did not do so badly at all. And Basso is "only" one minute behind Sanchez, who is not obviously the strongest at present. I still hope someone attacks, but looking at the figures, various people can hope to do well in the ITT. |
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| Me, a fan? |
I'm speechless:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/i...rns-danielsons-vuelta-on-its-head .. o.k. now I can talk. What the heck is wrong with this guy? Is it that hard to maintain a proper doping program??? Sheesh!!
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| HuwB |
Yes, I'm quite sure CN have it right, but for the dicky tummy, Tommy would have cake walked to Vuelta victory.
Poland? That was over 6 weeks ago. Stomach problems = built in Bio Passport spike explanation. Real cause? He remains a nearly man, an also ran. Sort Very Mini me, to Uncle Lance. Or the US version of Damiano Cunego, without the classics ability. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Cuddles living down to his nickname and reputation.
http://www.velonews.com/article/97765 Cuddles - the neutral car gave you the right wheel. Your team were the ones who fucked it up by making you wait. We all saw you trying to hold onto your team car. So shut the fuck up. |
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| cardinal guzman |
...... and what year they'll decide to try eh? CSF Navigare are in the TOB and as they, Sastre, Roid and the Killer are the only people to have attacked a bike race this century, I hope you're not holding your breath! |
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| mr shifter |
You never know but you might have to eat your words this week in fact.
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| MS |
Wouldn't be the first time, but, at the risk of patting myself on the back, Basso is going backwards, just like I said. In week one, I predicted he'd finish fifth. That sounds about right. Sometimes I think we're watching different races. |
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| Bartali |
You called it well today MS. | ||||||
| Superbagneres |
I was quite interested by the comments earlier in the thread about this stage being very typical of GT stages this year. If a GT wanted to try a real experiment, rather than starting it on a Moto GP circuit in Holland or Turkey or wherever, I would be interested to see a GT having the nerve to lop a week off and be run over three weekends and two weeks. Although you don't get to see as many of them on TV many of the shorter stage races can hold the interest more and have more explosive action, and I would be interested to see a more compact GT - my suspicion is that there would be less neutral racing and watching of other riders and more enterprise. In the case of the Vuelta it might also possibly end the ridiculous number of unforced withdrawals before the Worlds. I'm sure they wouldn't do it because they would see it as reducing the race's status, but having huge swathes of riders abandon hardly helps the reputation of the race. | ||||||