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HuwB

Vuelta 2016: Stages 18-21. Onward to Madrid Sept 8-11th.

Stage 18:-






Stage 19:-






Stage 20:-




Mountain passes & hills Benidorm / Alto de Aitana. Air Force Squadron 193.2KM

   Km 31.0 - Coll de Rates.13 kilometre-long climb at 3% - category 2

   Km 62.0 - Alto de Vall de Ebo.8 kilometre-long climb at 5.4% - category 2

   Km 82.6 - Alto de Tollos.4.1 kilometre-long climb at 5.9% - category 2

   Km 148.4 - Pto. de Tudons. 380 m. Primer paso. CV-7707.1 kilometre-long climb at 5.3% - category 2

   Km 193.2 - Alto de Aitana. Escuadrón del Aire21 kilometre-long climb at 5.9% - category H



Stage 21:-




mazda

They're off.
Clearly too much to expect the same today.
It is hot and sunny.
At some point the GC teams will drill it to the bottom of the final climb.
Biosphere

You're on the wrong thread Smile
Biosphere

It seems the Vuelta finished a Sunday too early Smile
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:
You're on the wrong thread Smile


Well, you could have moved it for me, I was still half asleep.
Oh and you missed the last turkey in the shop: it was the plumpest. Wink
HuwB

Apparently the wind is going to play a role.
It's become a strong gusting head/crosswind.
Might be good for a few seconds here and there.
mazda

HuwB wrote:
Apparently the wind is going to play a role.
It's become a strong gusting head/crosswind.
Might be good for a few seconds here and there.


Quintana is smaller, Froome has more power.

So is that a linear thing in an ITT - i.e. it favours whoever is already the faster / has the better power to area ?
Biosphere

mazda wrote:
HuwB wrote:
Apparently the wind is going to play a role.
It's become a strong gusting head/crosswind.
Might be good for a few seconds here and there.


Quintana is smaller, Froome has more power.

So is that a linear thing in an ITT - i.e. it favours whoever is already the faster / has the better power to area ?


Power comes from a rider's volume, drag from their area. If the volume is increased (bigger rider) their drag does not increase at a corresponding rate, so on the flat and other things being equal, bigger riders get an TT benefit compared to smaller riders - as far as wind and drag are concerned. On paper anyway Smile
mazda

Tuft was reported at the first check @ 12.5 km in 14:54.
I was thinking "headwind, what headwind ?" Smile

His time is now given as 20:13.

Fastest so far at S1 is Campenaerts at 40.9 kmh.
mazda

Froome and Quintana will probably get a fleeting look at each other in that long doubleback near the end.
HuwB

Either Froome has gone off way too fast or it's going to be game on gain tomorrow.
mazda

Nairo is not exactly dawdling ...
Biosphere

Reading online and given his split fit the first third, it would seem like the master of pacing has gone off too fast?
mazda

First part contains the only real climb.
So you might expect them to perform better than bigger riders.
mazda

Contador drops 30" to Castroviejo (from -3 to -33) on the next bit.
mazda

Talansky 53" up on Yates.
Contador a minute on Chaves (although a lot of that was the first section).
mazda

Quintana pacing himself, another 46 seconds lost.
Biosphere

So if they do the final third like the first 2, Froomme will still have about 1:25 deficit?
mazda

Correct. Still far too much, IMO.
mazda

Sanchez loses a massive chunk in the last section.
mazda

Pretty sure Talansky is up into top 5, but Yates should have a chance to get it back tomorrow.
mazda

Froome finishes 1'57" ahead of Contador.
We can expect an extra 30" to Quintana.
mazda

2'16" to Quintana.
Very well paced - did the last 13km faster than Contador.

Lead is 1'21"
HuwB

1.FROOME C. SKY in 46' 33''
2.CASTROVIEJO J. MOV in 47' 17'' at 0' 44''
3.LUDVIGSSON T. TGA in 47' 57'' at 1' 24''
4.LAMPAERT Y. EQS in 47' 59'' at 1' 26''
5.CAMPENAERTS V. TLJ in 48' 20'' at 1' 47''
6.KONIG L. SKY in 48' 24'' at 1' 51''
7.TALANSKY A. CDT in 48' 27'' at 1' 54''
8.CONTADOR A. TNK in 48' 30'' at 1' 57''
9.FELLINE F. TFS in 48' 31'' at 1' 58''
10.SANCHEZ GIL L. AST in 48' 43'' at 2' 10''
11.QUINTANA N. MOV in 48' 49'' at 2' 16''


Have to say that was a very impressive ITT from the man everybody loves to hate.

An awful way for Samu to bow out of contention.
Biosphere

I'm astonished by his time and his pacing Smile
mazda

I thought he might go faster than that once Castroviejo posted his time.
Apart from the hill he was roughly 0.5 sec/km faster.
Bartali

HuwB wrote:
Have to say that was a very impressive ITT from the man everybody loves to hate.
Impressive but not in the least bit unexpected IMO.
mazda

Bart, given your earlier views about Quintana, will you be willing Froome on tomorrow ?
In mitigation it would be more entertaining and more historic that way.  Twisted Evil
Bartali

I think it has been a good race, but I'm not a fan of either the top two. Sad
HuwB

Samu's shocker from yesterday:-

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/ne...ana-time-trial-crash-video-283645
Nolte

70km raced so far and only 2 man group (ll sanchez, hardy) have 1:10 lead
HuwB

It's settled into the more traditional pattern of a mountain stage.
i.e. Sod all happening.
Quintana even marked out Froome while he stopped for a pee. Embarassed
Nolte

Chavez/howson on 1 minute on main group.

Howson is a really strong rider, he showed it with his driving efforts in the giro, now here in the vuelta
Bartali

I have to say I'm enjoying this.  Fair play to Chavez
Bartali

HuwB wrote:
IQuintana even marked out Froome while he stopped for a pee. Embarassed


Well at least he didn't attack him as I'd have expected .... Rolling Eyes
Nolte

Chapeau to Latour on a hard fought win, it looked like with 300 metres that atapuma was going away. Terrific win for him

Chapeau to the efforts of chaves, his performance and gutsy determination are just great to watch.
HuwB

Had to dash out right at the end.

Good stuff from Chaves.
Good stuff from Latour, Atapuma, Little Kenny, Lulu and Mollard and some others in the break.
mazda

I think Chaves could be my new favourite rider.
I hope he stays where he is.

Not sure why Quintana felt the need to attack Froome in the last 50m.
SlowRower

mazda wrote:


Not sure why Quintana felt the need to attack Froome in the last 50m.


Two reasons I think:

Firstly to demonstrate that it wasn't even close yesterday.

Secondly, a psychological marker for next year.

Or maybe it was as simple as wanting to "dish it out" just because he could.
Boogerd_Fan

Froome had repeatedly tried to get a gap in the 10km riding together.. why not just show him who is boss by coming round and proving he's got good legs.
HuwB

SlowRower wrote:
mazda wrote:


Not sure why Quintana felt the need to attack Froome in the last 50m.


Two reasons I think:

Firstly to demonstrate that it wasn't even close yesterday.

Secondly, a psychological marker for next year.

Or maybe it was as simple as wanting to "dish it out" just because he could.


Those aren't reasons, they are excuses.
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.

I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.
 I had hoped for something more akin Lemond and the Badger, but perhaps that is wishful thinking in this era.
Still, he's free to do as he pleases.
As was Froome.
Biosphere

I was more or less watching live yesterday, but didn't have time to post with keeping kids busy. Very happy for Chaves. Went for the long range attack and it paid off. Also very happy for Latour - he was working so hard, ignored the wheelsucking and it paid off.

Thought this comment was not so classy from Contador. He was beaten fair and square by Chaves I would have said. Do I misinterpret?

Quote:
"My congratulations to Nairo for his win, Froome for his race, and more than Chaves, Orica, for their strategy."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...haves-for-vuelta-a-espana-podium/
gerry12ie

Yes, a touch of sour grapes it seems, but did he really expect Movistar to risk upsetting the grand Nairo plan to chase down Chaves for him?  A bit naive there, Bertie...

I didn't see more then a few minutes highlights as an afternoon's late summer sunshine in the company of Europe's best thoroughbreds seemed infinitely preferable to Carlton's wittering on.  

Chaves has been a revelation this year, but it's hard to see how he might actually win a GT with such an iffy TT.  Orica will surely find it hard to support three GT riders next year, so will either Chaves or the Yates brothers (I presume they stay or go as a pair) move on?
Biosphere

I did wonder about Orica having 3 GC podium contenders now as well, but there are 3xGTs and I don't think there are any rumours of any of them moving? Maybe enough races to go around for now? It seems like a teamy team anyway, barring Matthews and Gerrans which is already resolved.

As for anyone needing a good ITT, I would not be surprised if the route designers took a look at Froome's GT ITT dominance this year and thought maybe not for next year?
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:
I was more or less watching live yesterday, but didn't have time to post with keeping kids busy. Very happy for Chaves. Went for the long range attack and it paid off. Also very happy for Latour - he was working so hard, ignored the wheelsucking and it paid off.

Thought this comment was not so classy from Contador. He was beaten fair and square by Chaves I would have said. Do I misinterpret?

Quote:
"My congratulations to Nairo for his win, Froome for his race, and more than Chaves, Orica, for their strategy."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...haves-for-vuelta-a-espana-podium/


Yes.
I've notice that as he becomes less successful, he is showing a less pleasant side to his character. Rather than hold his hand up for failure, he is gaining a reputation for blaming external forces.
Expecting Movistar to return the favour? That implies that he rode stage 15 for their benefit, not for his own, which frankly is cobblers.
Stage 15 was mutually beneficial, Movistar chasing down Chaves yesterday would have served only Contador at a cost to Quintana's domestiques.


On my post above, I have watched the finish again and changed my opinion. Froome kicked off the sprint, then eased off, so Quintana simply carried on.
Nolte

mazda wrote:
I think Chaves could be my new favourite rider.


I feel the same way.

--
I saw contador comments before I ventured into the wind this morning. It doesn't show any class on his part. Why should have movistar worked to bring back chaves. They had no interest to do so. Chaves was not a threat to them so why?

Must say in interviews, I'm liking froome's attitude, he has shown great amount of grace in the race and i respect him for the grace he has shown.
SlowRower

HuwB wrote:
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.


Except that you are only as good as your last race and Froome now has to ask the question as to why Quintana was so much stronger than him in the latter stages of the Vuelta after they both rode the Tour. Maybe he'll hang onto the thought that it was riding the OGs that scuppered him but I'll bet Quintana will enjoy his winter training more than Froome! That's not to write off Froome, but winning is always better than losing.

HuwB wrote:
I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.


See above. Romance is one thing (but surely the most champion-like gesture is to respect your opponent and lay down everything you've got, even if you don't need to.) Sewing a few seeds of doubt in Froome's mind is another thing altogether. As Velominati Rule 70 clearly states: "The purpose of competing is to win. End of."
HuwB

SlowRower wrote:
HuwB wrote:
After the Tour, as a psychological marker, it was the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.



HuwB wrote:
I too thought that as the end of the stage signified the end of the GC mano a mano battle, as confirmed champion that it was the least champion like gesture.


See above. Romance is one thing (but surely the most champion-like gesture is to respect your opponent and lay down everything you've got, even if you don't need to.) Sewing a few seeds of doubt in Froome's mind is another thing altogether. As Velominati Rule 70 clearly states: "The purpose of competing is to win. End of."


Also, see above. Wink

Edit:- Well, this subject has just come up in Eurosport commentary.
Kirby announced that apparently the Spanish press have openly criticised Quintana for sprinting past Froome to which Sean Kelly replied: "and rightly so, it wasn't a nice thing to do, it was a bit much." SK thinks the subsequent applause was sarcastic, rather than a chapeau.
Took me a little by surprise, tbh.

Apparently, Quintana has subsequently offered up an apology of sorts.
Bartali

Tempest in a teacup tbh.  Personally I think Quintana should have stamped his authority on the race over the last couple of km (if he could) or do the gentlemanly thing and ride to the line together ... but I don't think it was the worse breach of etiquette I've seen.  Froome himself is not without form if I think back to 2012 ... and Quintana is anything but 'classy' IMO.

All in all a good race though ... some super stages and good to see Chavez grow a pair and come out from the wheels.  Chapeau.
Boogerd_Fan

Bertie could've been good enough to follow Quintana and Froome to the summit. He would have kept third place comfortably. But he didn't.
SlowRower

HuwB wrote:
Also, see above. Wink

Edit:- Well, this subject has just come up in Eurosport commentary.
Kirby announced that apparently the Spanish press have openly criticised Quintana for sprinting past Froome to which Sean Kelly replied: "and rightly so, it wasn't a nice thing to do, it was a bit much." SK thinks the subsequent applause was sarcastic, rather than a chapeau.
Took me a little by surprise, tbh.

Apparently, Quintana has subsequently offered up an apology of sorts.


All very strange. I mean the next time they race, if one has the chance to make a decisive move on the other then they'll take it, irrespective of whether etiquette or not was breached yesterday. So why is it even an issue? (Rhetorical question.)

If I remember correctly, there was barely any more concern about rules/etiqeutte in 2012(?) when Sky (allegedly) force Valverded into evasive action to avoid some road hardware on an echelon stage.
mazda

Neither rider was able to drop the other during the big head-to-head face offs in the race. That is something I expect to continue into the future when both riders are operating at close to equal form and health.

Would have been nice to end the team hostilities at the point when the race is deemed to be over.

That is what we expect in certain other sports (and don't in others).
mr shifter

Bartali wrote:
and good to see Chavez grow a pair and come out from the wheels.  

methinks he hasn't grown much and was at it again today.  Rolling Eyes
Bartali

Yup ... he was back at it again today!
Boogerd_Fan

?? not sure i understood, Chaves is being done for wheelsucking??

he forced the winning move with an acceleration on the final climb that distanced a seizing Bardet.. not sure that was luck. that he stayed behind Uran & Rosa in the final km, was good tactics!

in the vuelta he was clipping off the main GC group, and riding his own race - especially on the last summitfinish, where he overtook Bertie for the podium spot, finishing ahead of Froome/Quintana.

Maybe i've just misinterpreted what youmean by back at it again. He seems quite likeable - not only thesmile but also the race savvy too.
Nolte

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
?? not sure i understood, Chaves is being done for wheelsucking??

he forced the winning move with an acceleration on the final climb that distanced a seizing Bardet.. not sure that was luck. that he stayed behind Uran & Rosa in the final km, was good tactics!


I also think he made the attack 33km out that got him, uran, bardet and Rosa away.

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