| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| kathy |
Vuelta 2009Andy Schleck has confirmed that he will ride the Vuelta this year. |
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| Enchantress |
Yes, though he did say he is not aiming for a podium and is using the event as training.
Too bad I think. Winning a GT might make him come to his senses and avoid the PHarmstrong cesspoll that will be Team Radio Shack |
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| MS |
This has to be Valverde's best chance ever. Apparently, no Contador or Sastre, so Basso looks to be his top rival. | ||||||
| Bartali |
I can't believe AS wouldn't ride to win ...
No Bertie? Are you sure? |
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| SlowRower |
Bertie vs Basso vs Schlek would be good. Who would Bertie ride for? (Or more to the point, who would ride for him? Astana won't be doing him any favours, I'd guess. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
I'm surprised that Contador wouldn't ride.
Can't remember if he rode it in 2007 after he won his first TdF....... |
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| Bartali |
By the end of August Astana might be a post JB Astana ...? | ||||||
| Enchantress |
I think by the end of August Astanat might be "post" quite a few people! |
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| cadence |
For US posters....
LOS ANGELES (AP)—The Spanish Vuelta is getting more television coverage in the United States. Universal Sports said Tuesday that this year’s race will be broadcast live on its Web site each morning. The Vuelta, one of cycling’s premier events, runs Aug. 29-Sept. 22. Each stage will also be replayed on Universal’s TV network. The two sides agreed to a four-year contract. |
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| Enchantress |
Thanks for the link. I'm looking forward to a grand tour that involves some actual competitive racing and a decent course 
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| Bartali |
On paper it looks set to be the best GT this season! | ||||||
| Nolte |
are cervelo racing in it? | ||||||
| levi |
cyclingfever have cervelo down but not a full team yet. | ||||||
| kathy |
Invited teams
AG2R La Mondiale, Andalucía Cajasur, Astana, Bbox Bouygues Telecom, Caisse d´Epargne, Cervélo TestTeam, Cofidis, Contentpolis-Ampo, Euskaltel-Euskadi, Française Des Jeux, Garmin-Slipstream, Lampre-NGC, Liquigas, Quick-Step, Rabobank, Silence-Lotto, Columbia-Highroad, Milram, Saxo Bank, Vacansoleil and Xacobeo Galicia. Official website (English) http://www.lavuelta.com/09/ingles/recorrido/index.asp |
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| llewelyn85 |
Be interesting to see how the likes of Sanchez, Valverde, Basso and Mosquera do having specifically targeted the Vuelta against the likes of Evans, Klödi and A. Schleck who have the tour in their legs. | ||||||
| kathy |
It will be interesting to see how fit Mosquera is. He was due to ride the Giro, but missed it because he got injured by falling downstairs at home! | ||||||
| Enchantress |
If Valverde doesn't win this one then he'll probably never win a GT. Plus he's probably going to be sitting on a couch for a good 18-24 months very soon once the suspension is finalized. | ||||||
| Nolte |
fuji-servetto won an appeal to CAS and are now in the race 
i don't like it |
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| eric_vv |
Rabo for the Vuelta
Certain: Robert Gesink Koos Moerenhout Bram Tankink Pieter Weening 5 out to be decided after the Tour du Limousin Mauricio Ardilla (Col) Lars Boom Oscar Freire (Spa) Juan Manuel Gárate (Spa) Tom Leezer Paul Martens (Dui) Garate will probably be ready for the Vuelta in time after his fall, which would probably mean either Leezer or Martens will be dropped from the roster (they need Ardila and Garate to support Gesink in the mountains). It would surprise me if either Boom or Freire doesn't start. |
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| kathy |
Andy Schleck damaged his shoulder in a fall during San Sebastian, and is a doubtful starter for the Vuelta.
Xacobeo Galicia have named six of the team for the Vuelta Ezequiel Mosquera, David García, Gustavo C. Veloso, Eduard Vorganov. David Herrero and Gustavo Domínguez. The remaining three will be chosen from Serafín Martínez, Gonzalo Rabuñal, Juan Mourón, Iban Mayoz, Carlos Castaño, Alberto Fernández y Paleo. |
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| Nolte |
Mertens - Driving under intoxication?: |
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| nzovu |
Saxo DS Andersen says to Danish press the Schlecks and Cancellara will be riding the Vuelta. Andy apparently is ready despite San Sebastian crash.
But the GC man will be new wonderboy Fuglsang (pretty tall order for him, I'm still undecided as to his real qualities, but should be interesting). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fuglsang |
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| HuwB |
Rasmussen to ride the Vuelta?
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=15889 "Michael Rasmussen has large hopes in disputing the Return to Spain. It has revealed to the press of its country maintains negotiations with a team that will dispute the round españoa." "Last weekend I maintained contacts with a team and I expect to arrive at an agreement", has revealed. Finally no Contador in the depart The stars for the Overall are: Alejandro Valverde Ezequiel Mosquera Samuel Sánchez Igor Antón Andy Schleck Ivan Basso Andreas Kloden Robert Gesink Damiano Cunego.....and...... .......Alexander Vinokourov Oh and.......Cadel Evans! |
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| HuwB |
On the other hand, not to be seen here. I'm not sure who would have him......
Here's the full provisional line up, with Vino lurking, just in the shadows. http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=15966 |
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| Bartali |
I wonder how strong the TdF boys will be? Saxo looks very strong on paper. Astana very weak for a change. | ||||||
| thunderthighs |
this will be a great race, better than giro/tour..
russ matteus (germany) bennati may be injury free.....speriamo bene is back..thank god.. hysedal all three tours from canada.. i may just watch...gasperotto will be routing for |
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| fede40 |
Little Princess??? I'm not sure he can be in the contenders list anymore. I hope for him I'm wrong, but these days I "just" fancy him winning one dayers. Over three weeks has to be the least consistent rider among the list. |
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| thunderthighs |
cunigo is no prince..just a metamorphic frog ..
nibali..is a unknowingly revelation..ciao |
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| Enchantress |
The inclusion of vino has me wondering something.
Has any convicted doper who has returned to the sport in the last 20 years or so, gone on to actually win a GT? I can't recall at this moment but my inclination is to think no? |
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| HuwB |
I can't think of any, off the top of my head. Zuelle finished Tour runner up, in 1999, having been Festina'd in 1998. Fede: You are correct. Cunego is currently struggling to keep up with the likes of Sinkewitz and the Spanish, at the Volta a Portugal. Got dropped on the hilltop finish on Wednesday and couldn't hold some unknown's wheel, on the final climb yesterday. One assumes he's riding the Vuelta as WC preparation. |
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| Bartali |
Simoni .... sort of. Though I think the coke incedent was 'cleared up'. |
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| thunderthighs |
simoni likes spain..suits him...ciao | ||||||
| Nolte |
it was his aunt who lives in columbia had sent him cough sweet he was thus cleared |
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| Nolte |
i'm going through the list on cyclingnews. here's some notes
tyler farrar - 3rd grand tour kim kirchen - hopefully won't have to lead out people in the sprint kreuziger & basso - didn't think they got on quickstep - punishment for their big riders for not doing anything in france? deignan - aims to stay upright ag2r - thought elmiger was targeting the vuelta |
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| HuwB |
Yes, Nolte.
My "Chapeau" of the year, goes to David Millar. Also, his 3rd GT of the year, having come into the Giro with a "Broken Lance", but DNF. Riding strong at Paris-Nice, riding stronger at the Dauphine. Now, that's what a solid pro should be doing..... .....on the other hand... Much as I like him, Sammy Sanchez. 40 days or so of racing, this year. Got off at Asturias, in the very first days in May, back on in Burgos, in the very first days of August. (unless Kathy corrects me) If correct, thats a full 3 months off the bike, uninjured. Nice contract. |
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| kathy |
Well, I will if you want me to  He did ride San Sebastian.
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
hey kathy, new avatar?
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| HuwB |
See....that's what happens when you turn your back on the sport, to go on holidays. San Sebastian? Well, that makes all the difference, then. It's like when the local supermarket runs out of your favourite product and you have to wait ages for them to re-stock. I have missed "gruppo Sammy". 3 months on the beach, just isn't fair! |
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| Nolte |
that's why i've not taken a holiday in 15 years damn that one year my mother took me and my 2 brothers to mosney |
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| kathy |
Yeah, new camera as well - not sure I'm entirely happy with it though. I hoped to take some decent Vuelta photos. I need to test out the 'sports' feature on some fast moving subjects. This photo is of my cats. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
What sort of camera have you got?
I've got a Casio Exilim Z750. Can't say I've noticed a difference between that and anti-shake, which is my normal setting - for some reason the normal setting is very bad for clarity. Not sure if it's the camera itself as I've heard other folk have had focus issues with this camera. Mind you, I have dropped it a couple of times, but it survived. Have fun with your new camera! Just to add, does anyone have a detailed map of the finish of the stage in Liege? I'm gonna be in Brussels and thought I might pop over to see it, but there's nothing of detail that I can find on the official Vuelta website.... |
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| fede40 |
and i wasn't even following the race... 
yes, I think so too. But will he be Italy's first choice? I doubt, but then again I haven't seen the WC route yet. Anyway, back on Vuelta. I'm wondering if Kreuziger will be there as help for IB or free to ride his own race. |
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| Bartali |
RK will be too tired IMO - he's been riding hard since Romandie, Suisse, TdF ... Politics with IB will be interesting though! | ||||||
| Beasley |
I can't see Basso not being the leader on that team.
The route is custom made for the man; I can see very, very few stages where they can apply real pressure. Xorret de Cati may be the exception, but it's short so could be neutralised. |
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| HuwB |
Here's my two picks for "pressure".
I have noticed that the Sierra Nevada is tackled via the Monachil, which always causes major headaches. It's where Vino won his Tour. Totals 1700 vertical metres climbing in 27kms...... |
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| kathy |
It's made by GE. The model number is E1255W. Frankly, I'm not happy with it. There is no depth of focus, and any photos taken with the macro or full zoom are out of focus. It also has a pan panoramic function which only works half the time. It has no viewfinder, and even though the LCD screen is pretty good, it's not good enough for the bright sunlight here. I haven't even tried the sports function yet (thinking of the Vuelta), but image stabilisation doesn't seem to work either. I've taken some nice photos with it, but all in all it's not for me, and it's going back. I shall look for a camera by a known camera maker. Any recommendations, anyone? I don't want to spend a fortune - just a compact digital camera with 10 plus megapixels that takes an SD card and has a lithium battery. A friend is encouraging me to get a Canon, but you don't seem too happy with yours, MJ. There are just too many to choose from now - I don't know where to start! |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
No, no kathy, I've got a Casio Exilim Z750 and apart from it too being out of focus when in full zoom, unless I use a tripod, I love it. Also, it only takes up to 2GB memory cards and isn't compatible with HD-SD cards, but lithium battery life is amazing! I would thoroughly recommend a Casio, but suggest you get one with a viewfinder as well, I've had the Exilim Z3 (bought in 2003) as well and passed it on to my Mum when I got the Z750 (think I got it in 2006). Although one of the issues with these Casio's is that they need a cradle for charging them, which is a pain when travelling, but as I said battery life is brill.
I always thought Casio was cheap and nasty brand, but these camera's are great quality. I've found this website useful: http://www.dpreview.com/ Good luck! |
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| Slapshot 3 |
DP Review is easily the best digital camera website on the planet.
I use a pair of Canon EOS 30D digital SLR, power drives and a reasonable range of lenses.....helps you get pics like these. 
and 
However, also have a wee knackered point and press digital camera, Canon (what else!!) AS590 Powershot, 8mp loads of different settings £65 ideal |
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| kathy |
thank you for your replies, MJ and SS. I'll concentrate on looking at the Canon models then, seeing as that what everyone suggests. I was looking at the dpreview site yesterday, that's when I realised what a choice of cameras was available now. I just need to narrow the search down a bit.
SS, those are great photos, but I don't think I'm in the market for an SLR model, even if I could afford one. I just want something light I can carry around with me all the time. My existing 3 megapixel camera, which takes better photos, in general, than the 12.2 megapixel GE, is rather heavy and bulky. |
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| Bartali |
My two pennath ... the wide angle Panasonic DMC-LX3. | ||||||
| kathy |
Thanks, Bartali, I've been looking at Panasonic as well - along with Canon, they seem to get the best reviews. In the past I've had Olympus (OM something or other with bags full of lenses! - don't want to go back there, although it was a brilliant camera), Nikon - very good, but their digital cameras don't get brilliant reviews, and my first digital was a 1 megapixel Minolta - took good photos, but something went wrong with it. My current camera is a Caplio G4 wide (3 megapixels). Takes great 'point and shoot' photos. I just want something light and simple now, that takes good photos. | ||||||
| fede40 |
the Lumix (Panasonic) are really good cameras and also feature Leica lenses.
I didn't bring my (old school) Canon Eos 5 over here so I'm relying on my point and shoot, and it's served me well. |
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| kathy |
Yes, although I didn't connect Panasonic with cameras, I got interested when I saw they had Leica lenses.
Sorry, this thread has been completely hijacked by my camera problems - I will post anything else on the Coffee Lounge. 
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| Ralphnorman |
It's better than what normally happens when a thread gets hijacked 
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| Slapshot 3 |
Had the chance to use a Leica M6 few years back, stunning workmanship and a superb camera to use, cost far outweighs the practicality though. [url] http://www.warehouseexpress.com/b...r-compact-digital-camera/p1030482 [/url] This camera get's good reviews and the Camera Warehouse are pretty good value.[/url] |
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| HuwB |
Mine is crap, as you can see from the other thread.
Can I borrow one for tonight? Who wants to start a new Vuelta thread? 
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| Bartali |
Thread Hijack!! Give me 100 bucks or you'll never read about the Vuelta again! | ||||||
| Enchantress |
Heh, I do - another Vuleta thread that is. I'm anxious for the race to commence. Those were two beautiful stages in the graphs. A far more palpatable parcours than the rubbish of a course we saw in france. |
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| kathy |
Telepathy - that's the one I am seriously looking at. I wondered why I'd seen the page before, when I clicked on your link. I am also looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic...LUKAH1FUQU&colid=SNG9HFIYBSM4 the Panasonic has one big drawback - it doesn't have a viewfinder, which I'm finding really necessary in bright sunlight. The only snag I can see with the Canon is the AA batteries. Would have to get it from Ämazon - Camera Warehouse do not ship to Spain, but it is the same price on Amazon. Pixmania Spain are very expensive. |
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| HuwB |
I think you may well not be alone! Here are a further tasty trio for your delectation and cogitation.
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| Slapshot 3 |
Kathy....you maybe want one of these systems!!
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081601leicassystemspecs.asp £18K for the body alone Lottery win time!! |
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| kathy |
Well, it's got a viewfinder, but it's far too heavy 
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| HuwB |
Sorry to spoil this thread with a bit of cycling speculation, but Kloden's Oude ENECO crash, yesterday, has put his Vuelta place in serious doubt.
Will Vino get the expected call up? Anyhow. For all stage info:- http://www.lavuelta.com/09/ingles/recorrido/mapa.html?e=p All full screen, too.
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| Bartali |
Nearly Vuelta time! | ||||||
| HuwB |
........and Vino is back.
Astana Vuelta Team Confirmed as: Alexander Vinokourov Assan Bazayev Maxim Iglinskiy Jesús Hernández Chris Horner Daniel Navarro José Luis Rubiera Michael Schär Haimar Zubeldia |
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| bianchigirl |
But Rasmussen unwelcome - didn't Vino and Kash miss a test in the Vuelta some years back.
Sorry, I forgot, it's a whole new world of squeaky clean cycling out there
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| Slapshot 3 |
Rasmussen not welcome at Assstana is maybe more relevant, McQuaid seems to be rolling over for anything in turquoise. |
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| HuwB |
Dunno.
McNut made some obtuse and vague comment about PT licences not necessarily being renewed. Factor in all those "special" financial requirements Astana had to come up with, when LA and The Hog tried to snatch theirs. The Shack, Sky and Cervelo all after their bit of paper.... Loaves and fishes and all that. |
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| Slapshot 3 |
So he's rolling over and taking it like a man as long as Pharmstrong and the hog are still involved. Vino and Berto for that matter better watch their backs. Easiest way for Pharmstrong to beat Berto in France next year is to make sure he's not there |
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| HuwB |
That's what I'm thinking.....
Anyhow, one for Bart and Shim. (if he ever bothers to read here, now) Basso better form than at the Giro. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/basso-rates-himself-a-vuelta-contender If so, he could upset the Spanish fiesta. |
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| Bartali |
Huw - are you suggesting that I'm a Basso fanboy? I'm not a Basso fanboy and I really don't like anything from Italy, but this site it just full of people with an irrational and obsessional hatred of Italians. Look I know they eat too much pizza and drive around irratically on little scooters but every topic comes down to how much people hate italians. I support Basso not because I'm an Italian nationalist or a fanboy but because I can't stand to see him being bullied like this and I always root for the victim. |
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| HuwB |
Plus, they talk too fast and not even in English.
I don't like the way they wave their arms around when talking. Their cars always look good , but break down all the time. Why can't they wear socks with their sandals, or eat ready made food? My biggest dislike is that all their buildings are way too old, have too many statues and are nowhere near shiny enough.
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| kathy |
I love Italian cyclists - does that make me a fangirl?
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| Bartali |
Edit: Buildings that is ... not the people! Yes Kathy .... you are a fangirl!
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| maffy |
i wrote something almost nice about evans on the 7th of june, and i would happily buy ebh! a beer, banana or other fruit. does that make me an italian building? | ||||||
| Biosphere |
It's commonly known that Italian men can speak 17 languages with their hands and stay living in Mama's womb until the age of 32!
As for the beige leather shoes . . . |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Maybe time for one of these template things......
Dear X - are you suggesting that I'm (Insert Subject's Name) fanboy? I'm not a (Subject) fanboy and I really don't like anything from (Subject's home nation), but this site it just full of people with an irrational and obsessional hatred of (subject, subject's country or anything vaguely connected with the subject). Look I know they(Insert irritating indiosyncratic tendancies of subject, subject's country or anything vaguely connected with the subject) but every topic comes down to how much people hate (subject, subject's country or anything vaguely connected with the subject). I support (Subject) not because I'm (Insert relevant country) nationalist or a fanboy but because I can't stand to see (Insert Relevant personal pronoun) being bullied and pilloried like this and I always root for the victim. |
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| kathy |
Do I detect some jealousy here, Bio?
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| Mrs John Murphy |
That would be TT then? |
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| Slapshot 3 |
A virile, young Italian soldier was relaxing at his favourite bar in Rome, when he managed to attract a spectacular young blonde.
Things progressed to the point where he invited her back to his apartment; and after some small talk, they made love. After a pleasant interlude, he asked with a smile, "So...you finish?" She paused for a second, frowned, and replied "No." Surprised, the young man reached for her; and the love making resumed. This time, she thrashes about wildly; and there are screams of passion. The love making ends; and again, the young man smiles, and asks, "You finish?" And again, after a short pause, she returns his smile, cuddles closer to him, and softly says, "No." Stunned, but damned if this woman is going to outlast him, the young man reaches for the woman. Using the last of his strength, he barely manages it; but they climax simultaneously, screaming, bucking, clawing and ripping bed sheets. The exhausted man falls onto his back, gasping. Barely able to turn his head, he looks into her eyes, smiles proudly, and asks, "You finish?" "No!" she shouts back, "I Sveedish!" ....so if he'd used sign language.......
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| thunderthighs |
eros rammazzotti.. michelle hunszinker..
i guess its him...ciao |
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| Biosphere |
Over which bit  I have lots of Italian colleagues at work. I like them loads except for the shoes.
TT, Hunziker is Swiss and from the Italian part at that. Not quite Svedish
Kathy We need your help here - this thread is currently misplaced by about 4 months. Consulting my big book of stereotypes* I find that businesses in Spain generally open at noon, just in time for the lunch break when the Spanish can relax over a long meal, drink two beers to wash down their Sangrias, and then close for siesta, which lasts until the next day's lunch break. * The Onion's "Our Dumb World" I think we need a new Vuelta thread
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| Slapshot 3 |
Noooo this is more exciting than the tour..... | ||||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
If that were the case then the Vuelta thread would open about stage 9, close on stage 10, reopen and close on stage 19. I'm assuming your posting after you've put down your pint of Guiness, eaten your potato cake, danced river dance and talked about the craic all with a pig under your arm? |
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| kathy |
I think Rasmussen must have lost his marbles. He's been trying to persuade the Vuelta officials to let him ride, even though he doesn't have a team to ride for. | ||||||
| Biosphere |
To be sure |
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| thunderthighs |
[quote="Biosphere"][quote="kathy"][quote="Biosphere"]It's commonly known that Italian men can speak 17 languages with their hands and stay living in Mama's womb until the age of 32!
As for the beige leather shoes . . .[/quote] Do I detect some jealousy here, Bio? [/quote]
Over which bit I have lots of Italian colleagues at work. I like them loads except for the shoes.
TT, Hunziker is Swiss and from the Italian part at that. Not quite Svedish
Kathy We need your help here - this thread is currently misplaced by about 4 months. Consulting my big book of stereotypes* I find that businesses in Spain generally open at noon, just in time for the lunch break when the Spanish can relax over a long meal, drink two beers to wash down their Sangrias, and then close for siesta, which lasts until the next day's lunch break. * The Onion's "Our Dumb World" I think we need a new Vuelta thread [/quote]
italian shoes are th ebest.. and michelle i woudl love o... she is my space freind...nice pics of her.... ciao |
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| kathy |
I don't think I know any Italian men now. I once went out with a couple of Sicilian guys - cousins. The first one was gorgeous, the second one not as much so. | ||||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
At the same time? |
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| thunderthighs |
kathy .. iam the real mccoy..u went out with the
trouble makers.... ciao |
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| Slapshot 3 |
KATHY!!!! we see a new side to you....
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| kathy |
No, I started dating the first one, but he went away, but he'd introduced me to his cousin, so I went out with him for a while. Neither of them looked like Pippo though - they were both dark. |
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| NRT |
Excellent choice, I recently bought one for my daughter to take on her round the world trip. Super image quality, not sure about it's capability for sports though, but any compact camera will struggle with fast action. Hey Cathy, just noticed you live in Murcia. My godmother just invited me to visit her in Abanilla, good cycling country? |
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| kathy |
Never actually been up there - it's almost in Alicante province. I think you'll find that area not very hilly - hills to the north-west probably. Murcia region is general is not mountainous, although parts are quite hilly. The 'mountains' they use in the Vuelta a Murcia are to the south of where I live (near Bullas, in north-west Murcia). I've almost decided on a Panasonic. The only drawback for me is lack of a viewfinder. But the LX3 is way more than what I want to spend! |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Kathy, get a camera with a viewfinder - you'll only regret it afterwards....although saying that, I've rarely used mine and if light conditions make it difficult to see the screen you can still keep taking photos until you get the right shot, but for sports you don't always get a second chance. Viewfinder, I've made my mind up - that's the way to go! Maybe we should start a Coffee Lounge thread on cameras? | ||||||
| HuwB |
Coffee anyone?
Right, bar a couple of reluctant french teams, we now have, more or less, the final Vuelta line up and it's above average:- http://www.cyclingnews.com/featur...a-a-espana-preliminary-start-list |
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| mr shifter |
poor Huw is getting annoyed that you won't stay on thread topic, (Vuelta) but he did post this. Some years ago I had a Neighbour for about 10 years. Gino from the Vineyards near Trento and he wore socks with his sandals, but I don't when I have shorts on and it seems he must agree with huw. IMO, a bit Fuddy Duddy shorts, sandals and "dark" socks. (much the same as la with black). next bit is dated that he always bought an AUSTIN car, and again, what Huw says but he got away with the Longbridge monsters. In Europe most old buildings are kept because it's their Heritage and most Towns have a Main Square. UK - old buildings pulled down (or bombed down) and replaced by Concrete and Glass, like the one in the "City of London" known as the Gerkin. A better name is "UP YOURS" because if you line it up with your index finger it matches and the Architect is having a go at Prince Charles and gets the final word. IMO. Long established Fast Food outlets USA - Mcdonalds, Pizza Germany - Sausages, various Belgium - Frites with Mayo. Italy - Spaghetti UK - Fish & chips Spain (can't remember the name) Vuelta. I started watching 1993 and saw those long, long boring roads across central Spain and elsewhere the towns with their Concrete Apartment Blocks (like Germany) that we had not seen when on holiday at the coast. Yes I've seen worse now in Eastern Europe and in France which they built for the immigrants. VUELTA Tomorrow. |
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| levi |
bump somebody else have ago | ||||||
| mazda |
Can you stop all this "bumping" ?
It's at least as annoying as the spam you are trying to hide. |
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