BEWARE OF SCAMMERS ASKING FOR ADMIN ACCESS. WE NEVER ASK FOR ACCESS.
Fontfroide
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Velo d'ORHaving subscribed to Vélo for many years, I thought I would mention the results of their annual Vélo d'Or Trophy. I suppose it is the kind of thing that be moderately interesting to discuss when there is no actual riding going on. Well, no Pro Tour Road Races anyway.
Contador won it for the third time in a row. He had 69 points. For those not familiar with this trophy the editors pick fifteen or sixteen cycling writers from around the world and ask them to give 5-4-3-2-1 points to the five best cyclists of the year. In fact, I am not sure exactly what they get as a brief. For example, the American writer was John Wilcockson, the Brit was Jeremy Whittle. The Australian was Rupert Guiness. The French was Gilles Simon of Vélo Magazine. And if you are interested I can give you others, or you can buy the mag. You maybe find the ranking worthy or note or comment, or not.
Cavendish 49
Cancellara 32
Evans 22
A. Schleck 22
Armstrong 19
Valverde 18
Menchov 6
Boonen 2
Hushovd 1
Just for comparison, here is the end of year UCI ranking. The first two numbers are this year's rank and last year's, so Andy Schleck was fifth last year and fourth this year. I find it a bit difficult to understand Armstrong's rank in the Velo d'Or, in fact I think it is outrageous actually. There are others that seem worth a comment, but I shall leave it to you all.
1
1
CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto (ESP)
ASTANA
527
2
2
VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro (ESP)
CAISSE D'EPARGNE
483
3
8
SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel (ESP)
EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI
357
4
3
SCHLECK Andy (LUX)
TEAM SAXO BANK
334
5
4
EVANS Cadel (AUS)
SILENCE-LOTTO
333
6
5
BOASSON HAGEN Edvald (NOR)
TEAM COLUMBIA - HTC
322
7
6
KREUZIGER Roman (CZE)
LIQUIGAS
319
8
7
CAVENDISH Mark (GBR)
TEAM COLUMBIA - HTC
304
9
20
GILBERT Philippe (BEL)
SILENCE-LOTTO
295
10
13
GESINK Robert (NED)
RABOBANK
266
11
9
DAVIS Allan (AUS)
QUICK STEP
249
12
10
CUNEGO Damiano (ITA)
LAMPRE - N.G.C
235
13
11
KLÖDEN Andreas (GER)
ASTANA
232
14
12
BASSO Ivan (ITA)
LIQUIGAS
229
15
14
MENCHOV Denis (RUS)
RABOBANK
218
16
15
HAUSSLER Heinrich (GER)
CERVELO TEST TEAM
217
17
16
HUSHOVD Thor (NOR)
CERVELO TEST TEAM
216
18
17
FARRAR Tyler (USA)
GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM
212
19
18
SCHLECK Frank (LUX)
TEAM SAXO BANK
212
20
19
SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon (ESP)
CAISSE D'EPARGNE
211
Vélo awards a trophy for French riders, and it was won, by one point, by Bauge over Federigo, 72-71.
Voeckler 46
Le Mevel 30
Absalon 23
Sicard 22
Moncoutié 20
Chavanel 12Casoper 12
Champion 11
B. Feillu 9
El Farès 2
Might I say that I have no strong feelings about the exact best just ranking system for anything. In fact, I often reflect upon the question of ranking systems and all they mean, and NOT always positively. So I am acting here as a messenger, not as a defender of ranking systems. Just something to talk about during the off season.
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Bartali
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Well I'll start with the predictable ...
Armstrong 5th having won nothing and Basso not on the list??? What gives? True LA got on a podium at the TdF, but IMO that doesn't compare well with Basso's two GT top fives and a one week tour WIN!
Is this some sort of competition where they dish out sympathy votes for an old bloke that did quite well?
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bianchigirl
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Weel, you have to remember that Wilcockson would probably have given him all 15 points 
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Fontfroide
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Wilcockson, who is British I think, rated them Cancellara, Cavendish, Contador, Armstrong and Schleck. In that order. Although I am sure you were joking BG. You were, weren't you? Your intense dislike of Armstrong (or Wilcockson, as a lick-spittle) does not go THAT far does it?
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Me, a fan?
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Giro gets no repect! Don't understand that. Menchov should be no lower than 4.
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HuwB
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Wilcockson is a huge Armstrong fanboy. Wrote a book on each of his Tour wins, for Velopress, I think.
Never has an even mildly negative word to say about him.
The fact that he can place him above Schleck speaks volumes.
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Bartali
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Says it all Huw. Schleck places higher in the TdF and bags a Monument. Simply means he's giving marks for effort! Old boy rides better than expected .... nothing to do with quality!
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Fontfroide
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Couldn't agree more with the comments.
Does anyone know if Germany, Italy, Spain, Britain, etc have a similar award system? Have the French somehow gained the ascendancy on awarding "the trophy for the best rider" and ranking or rating the other riders? Seems like it from here, but maybe some other mag or group tries to do the same thing. Anyone know?
I find the omission of Basso and the ranking of Armstrong particularly galling. I just don't get it, not really. I should look up the reporters who rated Armstrong in the top five. Where is the mag when I want it?
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Slapshot 3
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The big thing about Pharmstrong is the amount of column inches he generates, mostly written by these guys. Once you take the rampant sychophants out of the equation like Wilcockson maybe the results are better. I'd love to know who Whittle voted for
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Fontfroide
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| Slapshot 3 wrote: | | The big thing about Pharmstrong is the amount of column inches he generates, mostly written by these guys. Once you take the rampant sychophants out of the equation like Wilcockson maybe the results are better. I'd love to know who Whittle voted for |
Whittle
Cavendish, Evans, Contador, Cancellara, Hushovd. 5-4-3-2-1
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Fontfroide
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Votes for Armstrong by country, although I can also type out the names if anyone wants to know, like Klaus Angermann from the Wiesbadener Kurier who voted for Armstrong in third place. He was one point ahead of Valverde in the final tally.
Austria Armstrong first
Spain third
France fifth
Italy fifth
Japan third
Russia fifth
USA fourth
Countries represented who did NOT vote for Armstrong: Australia, Belgium, Columbia, Britain, Holland, Luxembourg, Poland, Switzerland.
some of you might know the Italian writer Pier Bergonzi of La Gazzetta or Josu Garai of Marca.
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Bartali
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Staggering!!!
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Fontfroide
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I like the idea that a guy like you Bart, pretty wise and pretty informed, can be staggered. I am pleased to have brought the news that staggered you. Proves you are still young, naive and open to staggering notions.
I have to admit I was staggered too.
These guys are professional cycling writers. They know more than I do about what is going on, probably read more books, talk to insiders, maybe they know more history and have seen racing closeup for years and they all know what is happening. Some of them even ride loads more kilometres that I do. Presumably it is totally obvious that Armstrong won nothing of any consequence, although third in the Tour is still third in the Tour. Except that, in spite of these obvious facts, many of them rate the guy who beat Lance in that same race, and won a monument as "not as good". It just seems to totally bizarre, and at the same time, not. Pro Tour cycling is fascinating (to me), and of course Armstrong is still and will always be the media guy and the money guy.
I guess that is why I like the whole thing, so totally ridiculous and yet also totally fascinating.
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Slapshot 3
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| Fontfroide wrote: | | Slapshot 3 wrote: | | The big thing about Pharmstrong is the amount of column inches he generates, mostly written by these guys. Once you take the rampant sychophants out of the equation like Wilcockson maybe the results are better. I'd love to know who Whittle voted for |
Whittle
Cavendish, Evans, Contador, Cancellara, Hushovd. 5-4-3-2-1 |
Thank god for that, I have some respect for Jeremy, good journo, even if it took a while to see through the veneer of Armstrong.
Like Bart I'm gobsmacked that anyone, even the biggest Lance butt kissers can rate him above Berto, Cav, Spartacus and yes even Cuddles, throw in the Schleckys, Thor, Wiggo, Piti, Menchov and I'd struggle to get him top ten. Amazing what sychophancy can do for your enmd ofseason awards!!
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mr shifter
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Wilcockson, wasn't he a motorbike cameraman a few years ago on the Kellogs and other races along with that other clown Harmon. ??
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Mrs John Murphy
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I suspect that many of them want an 'exclusive' interview with the uniballer at some point in time - so they need to suck his dick every now and again. What better way than in a pointless and subject poll.
As for Whittle? What the fuck has Evans done this season bar fluke the World Championship.
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mazda
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So Contador got 69 out of a maximum of 75 points ?
(having listed 15 participating countries).
You've already accounted for at least 5 of the 6 points he dropped (2 each by Whittle and Wilcockson, and can only have come second with the Austrian judge).
So all the others voted him first ?
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last km
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Does anyone know if Germany, Italy, Spain, Britain, etc have a similar award system? Have the French somehow gained the ascendancy on awarding "the trophy for the best rider" and ranking or rating the other riders?
Not spefically for cycling , but the British Sports Writers Associatiion have a kind of SPOTY, which was recently won by a cyclist if memory serves me correctly ?
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Fontfroide
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| mazda wrote: | So Contador got 69 out of a maximum of 75 points ?
(having listed 15 participating countries).
You've already accounted for at least 5 of the 6 points he dropped (2 each by Whittle and Wilcockson, and can only have come second with the Austrian judge).
So all the others voted him first ? |
Keeping in mind that when I say a country I mean one guy.
There were sixteen countries/voters.
Germany, Columbia, Spain, Holland, Italy, Luxembourg, Poland, Russia, Switzerland had him first.
Austria, Australia, Belgium, France had Alberto second.
UK, USA had him third.
Japan had him fourth (after Cavendish, Schleck Armstrong in case you wondered).
Unless I made a mistake, that should add up.
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forearms van petegem
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where was Inglourious Basterds?
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forearms van petegem
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| Mrs John Murphy wrote: | I suspect that many of them want an 'exclusive' interview with the uniballer at some point in time - so they need to suck his dick every now and again. What better way than in a pointless and subject poll.
As for Whittle? What the fuck has Evans done this season bar fluke the World Championship. |
animated Dauphine, 3rd time runner up. Came 3rd in Vuelta.
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Fontfroide
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| forearms van petegem wrote: | | where was Inglourious Basterds? |
Hey Forearms,
What might you be talking about, in plain English?
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Mrs John Murphy
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That makes no sense - finishing third in the Vuelta and animating a race is better than winning the Giro or Vuelta, winning a classic and coming second in the TDF...
Animating - other riders did it more often and more effectively.
Compared to riders who were not rated by Whittle - Evans has done fuck all and nothing to deserve that rating.
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kathy
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| Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: | | where was Inglourious Basterds? |
Hey Forearms,
What might you be talking about, in plain English? |
Ivan Basso, at a guess!
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Fontfroide
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Thanks Kathy.
Yeah well what can one say? As forearms will know, having read the other posts, Basso is not included in anyone's rating much at all. Does seem he might have figured somewhere, although I notice that MJM might not agree.
This is, for all it is worth, the only global poll there is. I suppose we might do our own on this forum and see how it turns out. I notice that some people also think the UCI ranking system is crap. I tend to be extremely critical and sceptical of all ranking systems,although they have infiltrated our modern society immensely in recent years. Medicine, education, cycling etc. Everyone seems to try to construct them and then often distribute money based on them.
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forearms van petegem
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| Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: | | where was Inglourious Basterds? |
Hey Forearms,
What might you be talking about, in plain English? |
being facetious. was.
Inglourious Basterds Tarantino film, think Tarantino has taken more than one Palm d'Or at Cannes. So it was a play on words on Palm d'Or and also on Inglourious Basterds, because, basically, that is what the top flight of the peloton is.
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forearms van petegem
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| Mrs John Murphy wrote: | That makes no sense - finishing third in the Vuelta and animating a race is better than winning the Giro or Vuelta, winning a classic and coming second in the TDF...
Animating - other riders did it more often and more effectively.
Compared to riders who were not rated by Whittle - Evans has done fuck all and nothing to deserve that rating. |
he should have got a top 10. But not top 5.
1 Contador.
2 Valverde.
3 Schleck.
4 Cavendish.
5 Menchov.
6 Cancellara.
7 Evans.
8 Sammy Sanchez.
9 Luis Leon Sanchez.
10 Farrar.
honourable mention to Philippe Gilbert. He and Farrar are pretty line ball.
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Fontfroide
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| forearms van petegem wrote: | | Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: | | where was Inglourious Basterds? |
Hey Forearms,
What might you be talking about, in plain English? |
being facetious. was.
Inglourious Basterds Tarantino film, think Tarantino has taken more than one Palm d'Or at Cannes. So it was a play on words on Palm d'Or and also on Inglourious Basterds, because, basically, that is what the top flight of the peloton is. |
Sorry for being unable to figure that out, but you gotta admit, it is a little bit subtle and obscure. Thanks for responding. And me, haven't even seen the film.
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Fontfroide
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| forearms van petegem wrote: |
honourable mention to Philippe Gilbert. He and Farrar are pretty line ball. |
Sorry to be such a pain, but when two people are "pretty much line ball", what does that mean? Certainly Farrar had his best season ever, and should be full of confidence for the years to come. And Gilbert's last bit of the season was truly memorable. He should, unless something happens, be favourite for any one day race on earth for the next few years. I would also wager that both of them might be in the top ten next year.
But what is that expression you used? Sometimes I feel like I am just too far out in the sticks, too far away from English speaking culture and too old to understand what codes people are using. At least you use their normal names and not some code nicknames, so I know who you are talking about.
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last km
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"pretty much line ball" a very British explanation, some howI think its a yank thing adopted from football ???
Everything in polo is based on the "Line of the Ball", an imaginary line created by the ball as it travels on the field.
The "Line of the Ball" defines rules for players to approach the ball safely. These rules are designed to prevent serious injury to players and their horses.
The "Line of the Ball" changes each time the ball changes direction.
The player who hit the ball has the right of way, and other players cannot cross the "Line of the Ball" in front of that player.
As players approach the ball they ride on either side of the "Line of the Ball" giving each access to the ball while reducing the risk of injury to players and ponies.
A player can cross the "Line of the Ball" when it does not create a dangerous situation. Most fouls and penalty shots are related to players improperly crossing the "Line of the Ball".
well you did ask.... 
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Fontfroide
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Yeah I did ask. I used to be just American and never heard of that expression. Now I am partly British and still didn't know it. Mind you I don't follow polo at all, and doubt if I ever will. 
So how would you apply that expression to Farrar and Gilbert. That they both play fair, do their sprints in a straight line, something like that.
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last km
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I used to be just American ??? what do you mean....
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forearms van petegem
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| Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: |
honourable mention to Philippe Gilbert. He and Farrar are pretty line ball. |
Sorry to be such a pain, but when two people are "pretty much line ball", what does that mean? Certainly Farrar had his best season ever, and should be full of confidence for the years to come. And Gilbert's last bit of the season was truly memorable. He should, unless something happens, be favourite for any one day race on earth for the next few years. I would also wager that both of them might be in the top ten next year.
But what is that expression you used? Sometimes I feel like I am just too far out in the sticks, too far away from English speaking culture and too old to understand what codes people are using. At least you use their normal names and not some code nicknames, so I know who you are talking about. |
I meant Farrar and Gilbert were even, and I basically could not seperate them. HEW and Paris Tours are about even in my book. Farrar's weight of victories got him the vote, but Lombardia from Gilbert, you could argue was superior as a monument, and in hindsight, I may have to look at their respective seasons and see how Gilbert animated races. Was Gilbert third or fourth in Flanders.
If he made the podium I think I would switch this vote around.
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forearms van petegem
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| Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: | | Fontfroide wrote: | | forearms van petegem wrote: | | where was Inglourious Basterds? |
Hey Forearms,
What might you be talking about, in plain English? |
being facetious. was.
Inglourious Basterds Tarantino film, think Tarantino has taken more than one Palm d'Or at Cannes. So it was a play on words on Palm d'Or and also on Inglourious Basterds, because, basically, that is what the top flight of the peloton is. |
Sorry for being unable to figure that out, but you gotta admit, it is a little bit subtle and obscure. Thanks for responding. And me, haven't even seen the film. |
completely obscure.
apologies.
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forearms van petegem
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| forearms van petegem wrote: | | Mrs John Murphy wrote: | That makes no sense - finishing third in the Vuelta and animating a race is better than winning the Giro or Vuelta, winning a classic and coming second in the TDF...
Animating - other riders did it more often and more effectively.
Compared to riders who were not rated by Whittle - Evans has done fuck all and nothing to deserve that rating. |
he should have got a top 10. But not top 5.
1 Contador.
2 Valverde.
3 Schleck.
4 Cavendish.
5 Menchov.
6 Cancellara.
7 Evans.
8 Sammy Sanchez.
9 Luis Leon Sanchez.
10 Farrar.
honourable mention to Philippe Gilbert. He and Farrar are pretty line ball. |
actually, am I allowed to change my vote?
Gilbert ahead of Cavendish. Farrar out of top 10
If they still had the World Cup for the Classics, Gilbert would have won it. So, that would really alter the perception of his Spring and full season.
2009
1st Giro di Lombardia
1st Paris-Tours
1st Stage 20 Giro d'Italia
1st Giro del Piemonte
1st Coppa Sabatini
1st Overall Ster Elektrotoer
1st Stage 4
3rd Ronde van Vlaanderen
4th Amstel Gold Race
4th Liège-Bastogne-Liège
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kathy
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| last km wrote: | "pretty much line ball" a very British explanation, some howI think its a yank thing adopted from football ???
Everything in polo is based on the "Line of the Ball", an imaginary line created by the ball as it travels on the field.
The "Line of the Ball" defines rules for players to approach the ball safely. These rules are designed to prevent serious injury to players and their horses.
The "Line of the Ball" changes each time the ball changes direction.
The player who hit the ball has the right of way, and other players cannot cross the "Line of the Ball" in front of that player.
As players approach the ball they ride on either side of the "Line of the Ball" giving each access to the ball while reducing the risk of injury to players and ponies.
A player can cross the "Line of the Ball" when it does not create a dangerous situation. Most fouls and penalty shots are related to players improperly crossing the "Line of the Ball".
well you did ask....
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Sounds a bit like the port/starboard and windward boat rules in yachting
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Fontfroide
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| forearms van petegem wrote: |
completely obscure.
apologies. |
Thanks Mr Avant Bras. Still, it makes reading this forum a bit like street poetry written in more than one language. Always requires a little interpretation. I am just the kind of guy who, when he does not understand something, asks what it means. After a certain age, one loses the need to be up to date, since it is totally impossible anyway. And what with allthe nicknames ...
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Fontfroide
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| last km wrote: | | I used to be just American ??? what do you mean.... |
I spent the first 25 years of my life in the USA, except the odd trip to some foreign country. For the next 32 or so years (my adult life after University) I lived and worked in England, where I obtained British citizenship, thereby having two passports and two nationalities. I consider England my home, well Yorkshire actually, although I also know I am American, from the Midwest actually, Detroit in fact. Having lived in France for eight years and almost being a French citizen, things get complicated. I really am not fully at home anywhere at all, except maybe the Northwest of England, and even then ... with my accent, no one except my pals thinks I am "really" British and even they probably have doubts. I would NEVER claim to be "English" if you know what I mean.
But many years ago, I was "just a citizen of the USA". An American.
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bianchigirl
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Gilbert's season really was excellent - I know Cavendish had the quantity but Gilbert's wins are real quality.
I hope a decent sprinter whose not on Columbia emerges soon to test Cavendish's mettle
And yes, FF, as has been adequately explained, the comment was a joke - thought the wink was a dead giveaway
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thunderthighs
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lance is still the man on the ticket..nobody else..ciao
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Fontfroide
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| bianchigirl wrote: |
And yes, FF, as has been adequately explained, the comment was a joke - thought the wink was a dead giveaway |
Well, you know me, not always able to get jokes. Too serious.
But on the other hand, there was NO smiley on the first post about Inglorious Basterds.
Must see the movie and fully dive into the subtleties. Or not. We don't get many movies out here in glorious France Profonde, certainly no Tarantino. Gotta go into one of two cinemas in Montpellier to see such films. I CAN see Harry Potter, in French, locally.
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Hommedesbois
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| Fontfroide wrote: | [Inglorious Basterds.
Must see the movie and fully dive into the subtleties. Or not. We don't get many movies out here in glorious France Profonde, certainly no Tarantino. Gotta go into one of two cinemas in Montpellier to see such films. I CAN see Harry Potter, in French, locally. |
ùtorrent, then mininova or the other one (whose name escapes me but Google doesn't list) and use VLC media player to watch. you may need to download subtitles too via Josef ....
otherwise the same here ...Les Ch'tis, le Petit Nicolas or Clint Eastwood shouting in French. As for the infuriating Johnny Hallyday Optic 2000 advert 
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bianchigirl
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Though l'homme du train was a v good film.
Have to say my evenings in la France profonde were full of dinners with either my masonic, le pen voting neighbour or my rose quaffing, TdF loving neighbour
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kathy
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| bianchigirl wrote: | Though l'homme du train was a v good film.
Have to say my evenings in la France profonde were full of dinners with either my masonic, le pen voting neighbour or my rose quaffing, TdF loving neighbour |
Funny, we had a le Pen voting neighbour as well. He owned the bar/restaurant. They had a general election while we were there, and 30% of the people who voted in our village voted for le Pen and his mob.
Now what was this thread about? Ah, yes, Velo d'or. Does it actually mean anything to someone like Berto, I wonder?
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Slapshot 3
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| kathy wrote: | | bianchigirl wrote: | Though l'homme du train was a v good film.
Have to say my evenings in la France profonde were full of dinners with either my masonic, le pen voting neighbour or my rose quaffing, TdF loving neighbour |
Funny, we had a le Pen voting neighbour as well. He owned the bar/restaurant. They had a general election while we were there, and 30% of the people who voted in our village voted for le Pen and his mob.
Now what was this thread about? Ah, yes, Velo d'or. Does it actually mean anything to someone like Berto, I wonder? |
My friends in France are generally to drunk to worry about politics..
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Hommedesbois
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When I'm sober I worry about LePen getting in and sending home the Brits who claim RSA while driving flash (i.e. non-French) cars.
My neighbours are interested in hunting, drinking and being beaufs...
Last copy of Vélo I saw had an old American on the cover - that put me off ever buying it. I assume it is a magazine for a doctor's waiting room. This obscure award ceremony appears to confirm this.
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Fontfroide
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Obviously people have views about different mags. I find Velo quite good, with in depth articles better than any that I read on links in other mags on this forum. There may be some better ones in France on the racing scene, but I have never seen them. I read the British ones, when someone sends me one, and they seem pretty much the same thing. But I certainly don't want to get into defending the mags or any one mag. I enjoy reading it.
As for "obscure award ceremony", I don't think that is quite accurate. Greg and Al were handed their trophies on Stade 2, which if I am right, is the headline sports show of the week. At least for those of us who do not have dozens of channels. I did ask if anyone knew of any other "global cycling award" that might be better done or more important, but no one could think of one. So in fact, I am not sure it is accurate to even call it an obscure award. Unless someone knows of a more important or even any other such award at all.
Still and all, everyone is entitled to their taste, and there is no doubt there were some odd choices made by the various cycling reporters from the sixteen countries. But I doubt if there can be any doubt about the winner, not a difficult choice.
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kathy
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FF, I used to buy Velo every month when I lived in France - thought it was excellent, better than any of the mags I bought in the UK. I managed to get it for about a year in Spain as well - one of our paper shops in the town had l'Equipe every day, and Velo every months, as well as the Mail, Telegraph, Espress etc, and a hot of German and Dutch papers. I sometimes get one in Spain called Bicisport but it's nothing like as good. NOw I'm in the sticks I can't get anything but Spanish papers and magazines.
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forearms van petegem
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| bianchigirl wrote: | Though l'homme du train was a v good film.
Have to say my evenings in la France profonde were full of dinners with either my masonic, le pen voting neighbour or my rose quaffing, TdF loving neighbour |
mediocre, Wedding Singer better, and The Man Without a Past shists over both 
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