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Biosphere

Tour 2015, Stages 10-12: A New Pyrenean MTF, 14th-16th July

I'll stick this here for populating when the time comes
HuwB

And here it is:

A lovely little promo video of the climb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTJEKLf3Lc


Map:
http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2015/1000/carte.pdf






Looks as if the weather will be very hot for the first mountain tests.
Temperatures in the Pyrenean valleys could exceed 35C.

 After today, the GC will look very different, as the classics boys head for the bus and the strongest contenders come to the fore.
No doubt accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth by those whose favoured riders fall, at this, the first mountain hurdle.
Mrs John Murphy

HuwB wrote:

No doubt accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth by those whose favoured riders fall, at this, the first mountain hurdle.


Fabio Aru says hi

I mean, really Huw? Really? You of all people.
HuwB

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
HuwB wrote:

No doubt accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth by those whose favoured riders fall, at this, the first mountain hurdle.


Fabio Aru says hi

I mean, really Huw? Really? You of all people.


Que?

http://www.meteofrance.com/previs...-france/oloron-sainte-marie/64400
Bartali

Amusing video Huw ... lots of out of the saddle 'posing' for the camera Wink
HuwB

A lovely day for it and a much earlier scheduled finish.

gerry12ie

Little Quiz:

Complete this Bastille Day sequence...

Charles Pelissier

Bernard Thevenet

***

And why?
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
Little Quiz:

Complete this Bastille Day sequence...

Charles Pelissier

Bernard Thevenet

***

And why?


Has to be double winners on BD, but I don't know who number 3 is.
I know Virenque won in 2004, but as for a second time?
Probably missing someone obvious.


Today's Bastille day break surprisingly short of Frenchmen (Fedrigo)..............or men,(van Bilsen) come to that.
Shouldn't be a super fast stage, given the size, gap (11 minutes)and such.
gerry12ie

HuwB wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
Little Quiz:

Complete this Bastille Day sequence...

Charles Pelissier

Bernard Thevenet

***

And why?


Has to be double winners on BD, but I don't know who number 3 is.
I know Virenque won in 2004, but as for a second time?
Probably missing someone obvious.


Slapshot will be along in a minute, but you are very nearly there... and yes, it is obvious
Fontfroide

Not sure which other double winner on Bastille Day you want, Jacques Anquetil or Laurent Jalabert.

I will guess both.
gerry12ie

You are correct with both FF.  Sorry about that I thought it was just Jaja but Anquetil was a 'b' part two stage the second time, so I missed it... Embarassed
phildange

The already poor French hopes are not spared by fate . Barguil out I'm afraid, in spite of his courage . I'm not optimistic concerning his chances to be good from now.
HuwB

Barguil just about back to the bunch, but the boy has had terrible luck with crashes this year.
Another victim of the feed zone.
All in all the peloton very traquillo today........so far.
phildange

Yeah back to the peloton, but with which potential from now ?
And sh... ! Another handicap for a thrilling contest : Contador already diminished by the Giro today lost his best lieutenant . They say Basso got a cancer and quitted the Tour because of this . I wonder how this couldn't be known before !
HuwB

The pace is still nothing to write home about. Very casual at the back of the bunch.
About to start the climb, too.
HuwB

Nibali gone, along with Uran and all the French bar Rolland.
Movistar culling the bunch.
cadence

Chris Froome, the new Lance Pharmstrong  Rolling Eyes
Boogerd_Fan

2016... the new 2006 when this shi* blows over

(Waits for bartali to call it) Smile
gerry12ie

BOOM!

*waitsforwheelie*
phildange

What I feared the most : one more time no more Tour after 10 days .
Mrs John Murphy

Fuck this shit
mazda

<weep>
phildange

[quote="Boogerd_Fan:227662"]2016... the new 2006 when this shi* blows over

I'd say the late 90s rather . Because it's not only about sophisticated doping : There's also this Imperialist way of signing a whole bunch of cracks in the same team in order to eliminate potential rivals and mainly to keep such a crazy pace in climbs that remaining last rivals are unable to try their chance . Or even to believe in it . .
gerry12ie

At least I can go to Homebase on the way from work and buy some paint - haven't seen it but it sounds like a total joke.  

The same Porte that stank the Giro out...
Mrs John Murphy

Not even Rasmussen, Vino, Dertie or the Uniballer took the piss this much.

LOL Sky probably wanting to get all three on the podium plus polka dots
HuwB

Well, that was that.
Great rides by Gesink and Gallopin, but cold comfort other than that.
Maybe the polka dots can still spark a bit of interest, but I doubt it.

Let the calculations commence.
Mrs John Murphy

HuwB wrote:
Well, that was that.
Great rides by Gesink and Gallopin, but cold comfort other than that.
Maybe the polka dots can still spark a bit of interest, but I doubt it.

Let the calculations commence.


Do you still believe there is nothing to see here?
HuwB

I agree. It did look ridiculous, but maybe the numbers can back that up.

Well, at least the test and golf starts on Thursday.
phildange

Still a little hope though . I live by there and I got contacts in the ETA . Possible help from these guys to  get rid of Murdoch's team . Maybe tomorrow ? ...
HuwB

phildange wrote:
Still a little hope though . I live by there and I got contacts in the ETA . Possible help from these guys to  get rid of Murdoch's team . Maybe tomorrow ? ...


A crumb of comfort for you.
The badly injured Barguil actually up into 9th.
phildange

Yes imagine, without his fall he'd have finished 1 minute ahead of Froome !
gerry12ie

Remember, this should really be Froome's fourth in row - just ask SR and Bartali Wink  Wink
SlowRower

gerry12ie wrote:
Remember, this should really be Froome's fourth in row - just ask SR and Bartali Wink  Wink


Speaking of Nibali, has he finished yet?
Mrs John Murphy

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#TDF2015, Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Chris Froome: 40 min 54 sec, 21.84 Kph, VAM 1687 m/h, 6.09 W/kg [DrF]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#TDF2015 Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Nairo Quintana: 41 min 58 sec, 21.29 Kph, VAM 1644 m/h, 5.93 W/kg [DrF]

Discussion over Froome's weight and the time. Some give it as 40.22

New climbing record for Vroomestrong

http://www.climbing-records.com/2...-new-speed-record-for-soudet.html
Bartali

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
2016... the new 2006 when this shi* blows over

(Waits for bartali to call it) Smile


Okay .... I'm calling it!!!

I've stayed silent on the power meter video as its pretty speculative.  I've even been happy that there's been nothing too 'extra-terrestrial' in the first week.  But three sky chaps in the top 6?  We called out Astana in the Giro and this doesn't seem that different.  Thomas (who I really do like) outclimbing even a race weary Contador, TJVG and out of sorts Nibs etc is not something many of us would expect. And then Froome putting out such high numbers for the modern era (albeit down on the 6.6w/kg we have seen in the past.)  But its not just the numbers ... its the total dominance of others in a race day situation ... and all this coming from a bloke who never won a race until his mid twenties?
HuwB

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#TDF2015, Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Chris Froome: 40 min 54 sec, 21.84 Kph, VAM 1687 m/h, 6.09 W/kg [DrF]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#TDF2015 Stage 10. La Pierre Saint Martin (14.89 km, 7.72 %, 1150 m)
Nairo Quintana: 41 min 58 sec, 21.29 Kph, VAM 1644 m/h, 5.93 W/kg [DrF]

Discussion over Froome's weight and the time. Some give it as 40.22

New climbing record for Vroomestrong

http://www.climbing-records.com/2...-new-speed-record-for-soudet.html


I worked it out quickly from that link, which has the climb a bit longer and had VAM of 1633m/h, 5.95w/kg. Guessed the weight at 62kg.
So, pretty much the same.
Two more:-
Contador: VAM 1527m/h, 5,57w/kg.
Nibali: VAM: 1475m/h, 5.38w/kg.

3 in the top 6? Yes, the TDF's Astana.
Porte? I guess they can all count themselves lucky the rules got in the way. Smile
Fontfroide

phildange wrote:
What I feared the most : one more time no more Tour after 10 days .


Keep your eye on those other interesting jersey contests.   Wink

But in terms of enjoying the combat, the GC, the attacks etc, it seems t be a bad day.

However, the Tour is long, many things can happen.  My totally blind optimistic slogan.
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Thomas (who I really do like) outclimbing even a race weary Contador, TJVG and out of sorts Nibs etc is not something many of us would expect.


Per Huw's calcs, Berto and Nibs were outputting circa 5.5 and 5.4 w/kg, so tbh, Thomas outclimbing them isn't that surprising as they're both circa 10% down on what might normally expect.

Thomas has stepped up from last year, but he finished 31st in the Tour 4 years ago, is now late 20s so at his likely physical prime for an endurance athlete (28-34, typically) and has three years of post-track life behind him. Maybe an improvement isn't a surprise.
Fontfroide

Weights given my recent issue of l"Equipe before the Tour.

Froome  69 kilos
Contador 62
Nibali 65
Quintana 59
Porte 62
Fontfroide

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Fuck this shit


Crude, hard to interpret, but somehow, easy to pretend I understand.
cadence

I'm not an avid or knowledgeable cycling fan like other posters on this forum but this was even obvious to me.  Who would have thought U.S Postal and Pharmstrong would be racing in the Tour again.
Nolte

Fontfroide wrote:
Weights given my recent issue of l"Equipe before the Tour.

Froome  69 kilos


in procycling april edition it says froome "says he has to lose four kilos off his 70kg off season weight" so that would put his top weight being 66kg
gerry12ie

At least armstrong had the decency to sweat.  Froome and Landa need to get it on at a UFC Vuelta
Mrs John Murphy

cadence wrote:
I'm not an avid or knowledgeable cycling fan like other posters on this forum but this was even obvious to me.  Who would have thought U.S Postal and Pharmstrong would be racing in the Tour again.


It is as if they think no one remembers.

There is a story about Brunyeel telling Armstrong to ease back to make it less obvious. Sky obviously didn't get that memo.
gerry12ie

Well the final proof for me is that this is the first GT in a few years where ALL the major protaginists are in attendance, and they were all beaten up out of sight by Froome.  I could be wrong but I don't think that has happened so convincingly on the first mountain stage in quite a while.  He has absolutely demoralised his opponents and just needs to stay upright to win, but like Armstrong he will probably just go on smashing them...

Porte for the podium
Mrs John Murphy

gerry12ie wrote:
Well the final proof for me is that this is the first GT in a few years where ALL the major protaginists are in attendance, and they were all beaten up out of sight by Froome.  I could be wrong but I don't think that has happened so convincingly on the first mountain stage in quite a while.  He has absolutely demoralised his opponents and just needs to stay upright to win, but like Armstrong he will probably just go on smashing them...

Porte for the podium


I can see Thomas finishing on the podium as well.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Even the deafening silence from the media is like the 2000s as well.
ventoux

Mrs John Murphy wrote:


Do you still believe there is nothing to see here?


I've previously said I was sceptical about Froome/Sky, but didn't really know what to believe.... I also said I tend not to get worked up about who's doping and who isn't, unless I see someone/team taking the piss.... I really believe I've seen that today.....  sadly.....  Crying or Very sad
gerry12ie

Podium betting...




A fiver on Uran won't go too far astray @ 50/1 because Nibali and Contador might as well pack it in and go home...
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
Podium betting...




A fiver on Uran won't go too far astray @ 50/1 because Nibali and Contador might as well pack it in and go home...


That makes even more depressing reading.
BF better get his money down on Gesink quick.
Another day like today and he'll be at evens.
MAILLOT JAUNE

Even Froome couldn't believe his performance!!!!!!!

"I’m at a loss for words. That was unbelievable," Froome said after his conquest.
Mrs John Murphy

Riis: Very strange feeling. Feels like a flashback

Emma O'Reilly ‏@Emma_OReilly 5h5 hours ago

The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 2h2 hours ago

@katjanechild I found it very difficult & deflating to watch. I felt like I was watching 2000 TDF all over again. Despondent

http://sportsscientists.com/2015/...-one-more-pixel-context-mistrust/
HuwB

Nibali: "I'm not even the brother of the rider I was last year."
Boogerd_Fan

HuwB wrote:
Nibali: "I'm not even the brother of the rider I was last year."


lolz
Mrs John Murphy

Curious as to what happened to the supercharged Astana and Tinkoff of the Giro.
gerry12ie

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Curious as to what happened to the supercharged Astana and Tinkoff of the Giro.


The Mallard and The Flying Scotsman came up against the Bullet Train is all
gerry12ie

Inrng

http://inrng.com/2015/07/stage-10-review/#more-25739

Quote:
This evening the race appears to be settled after just one mountain climb, the equivalent of starting an Agatha Christie novel only to discover the identity of the murderer on page ten.
Mrs John Murphy

gerry12ie wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Curious as to what happened to the supercharged Astana and Tinkoff of the Giro.


The Mallard and The Flying Scotsman came up against the Bullet Train is all


I find it hard to believe that Astana or Tinkoff have dialled it back, or that Sky's resources are so much more extensive that they can out spend those teams.
mazda

I do find myself having a lot more respect for Valverde these days.
I may even become a fan.
Boogerd_Fan

Porte is still 45mins behind, he has a bit of work to do to join G and Froome on the podium Very Happy
Mrs John Murphy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Porte is still 45mins behind, he has a bit of work to do to join G and Froome on the podium Very Happy


He can win KOM and a few stages instead
SlowRower

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Curious as to what happened to the supercharged Astana and Tinkoff of the Giro.


Tinkoff are presumably suffering as they burnt a lot of matches in the Giro with Berto. There's only so much that the medicine cabinet can do to aid recovery for competition against fresh riders.

For Astana, I wonder if Nibs is so badly prepared that in early season training camps it became clear that there wasn't a hope in hell of him being fit for the Tour. If so then Astana could have transferred their attentions to the Giro and written off the Tour, albeit not publicly. Or maybe Nibs has been the subject of more testing than normal given Astana's difficulties in recent months.
Fontfroide

Nolte wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
Weights given my recent issue of l"Equipe before the Tour.

Froome  69 kilos


in procycling april edition it says froome "says he has to lose four kilos off his 70kg off season weight" so that would put his top weight being 66kg


Well I always have wondered if the heights are even correct, much less the weights.  And when they weighed the riders, and if the tell the truth.  One thing is sure, if he is 3 centimetres taller than me, and weighs 66 kilos, which must include legs of some heft, then he must be totally skinny.  Oh, he is.
gerry12ie

I really couldn't get over just how emaciated Froome looked yesterday.  I can't find a decent image to back it up as most of them are side-on or head-on, and I thought his legs and arms looked most spindly when viewed from the rear by moto.  Surely we have gone way beyond dietary science when an 'athlete' with the physique of a starving refugee is leaving a trail of supposedly healthy bodies in his wake...

Like I say, I don't think this shot really does it justice, but the Dawg is near Rasmussen physique

 
mazda

Are you saying he looks like your typical east African long distance runner ?
mazda

4 strong riders trying to break away.
Boassen Hagen
Westra
Jungels
Kwiatkowski

Lampre certainly can't reel them back in, but the gap is only at 35 seconds at the moment.
gerry12ie

mazda wrote:
Are you saying he looks like your typical east African long distance runner ?


Yep.  

Although I don't think too many Kenyan runners have excelled at Pyrenean MTFs against multiple Grand Tour winners... Wink
mazda

A lot of chopping and changing.

Greipel got distanced on the Cat 3. and didn't _quite_ make it back for the Sprint point shortly thereafter (although did get 9th)
Trentin beat Sagan into second but Sagan now leads Green again.

Could be a Tommy V. day.
He's part of a 5 man break that looks like it is being allowed some leeway.
Majka is also present to provide some tactical interest.
mazda

With the gap at 4 mins first Dan Martin has attacked the peloton, and then a bit later Grivko   Surprised
That seems to have upset the peloton who have speeded back up.
mazda

Martin and Grivko working together, now 3'27" down.
Peloton letting them go.
You have to think they have the quality to catch the 7 leaders up the Aspin or Tourmalet.
mazda

Martin flying up the Aspin.
Not sure it is the best tactic to catch the front 7 quite so soon.
phildange

Anyways, well done Dan .
Boogerd_Fan

Kirby's SKYFroome lovefest apparently knows know limits.

sickening.

Good work from Martin. Majka marking Voeckler tactical for the polkadots?
mazda

Boogerd_Fan wrote:

Good work from Martin. Majka marking Voeckler tactical for the polkadots?

Could be a good scrap for the line.
Won't Majka be waiting for AC  Wink
phildange

SlowRower wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Curious as to what happened to the supercharged Astana and Tinkoff of the Giro.


Tinkoff are presumably suffering as they burnt a lot of matches in the Giro with Berto. There's only so much that the medicine cabinet can do to aid recovery for competition against fresh riders.

For Astana, I wonder if Nibs is so badly prepared that in early season training camps it became clear that there wasn't a hope in hell of him being fit for the Tour. If so then Astana could have transferred their attentions to the Giro and written off the Tour, albeit not publicly. Or maybe Nibs has been the subject of more testing than normal given Astana's difficulties in recent months.


I think it's an interesting thesis, one or the other possibility, at least if the Giro can explain Contador and Nibali's weakness it would appease me a little bit . But not about their dumbness, trying a double in front of WallStreetMurdoch is stupidily presomptuous .

Well, the Green jersey is thrilling, and Dan might be chasing the Polka Dot . Oh, if Thomas could win His stage I'd be happy .
What a magnifique Tour de France boys !
Mrs John Murphy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Kirby's SKYFroome lovefest apparently knows know limits.

sickening.

Good work from Martin. Majka marking Voeckler tactical for the polkadots?


It's like 2000 all over again.

Kirby in the Phil/Harmon role

Vroome as the Uniballer

Porte as Danielson

Thomas as the Welsh Hincrapie
phildange

The échappée is losing time very quickly !
phildange

What an omen on the French . Perrault and Pinot useless as nearly always, Bardet is sick, Vuillermoz is burnt, Barguil is victim of his yesterday's fall as I feared, even the little "sprinter" Kadri out ...  
Come on Thomas, do something !
Boogerd_Fan

Astana doing the Movistar role of yesterday... half of SKY just sitting there waiting to unleash hell on this lead group again on the final climb... sigh..

Surprising to see Konig go out the back door so quick. So much for his record of always finishing top 10 in GT's.
mazda

Porte dropped ? - edit - Not at all it would seem.
Astana setting up a strong selection and then hoping something might happen ? Even if it just tires riders out for tomorrow.
Boogerd_Fan

mazda wrote:
Porte dropped ? - edit - Not at all it would seem.
Astana setting up a strong selection and then hoping something might happen ? Even if it just tires riders out for tomorrow.



Yep, the ones that are left here are going to be the Top 10.... just which order by Paris??

Barguil really battling.. maybe he can get back on during the descent
phildange

Armstrong, Wiggins, Froome, they all have too many super riders with them . Nibali and Contador can't try anything, even if they they were not cooked because of the Giro .I hate these trains so much, so many years screwed by this US/UK strategy : How can we kill all pleasure in the Tour de France because we want to be mathematically sure that we'll win ? It annoyed me even more than NASA doping .
gerry12ie

Bartali and I will be along in a minute to discuss the merits of radios Phil... Wink
mazda

At least Sky have been forced to work.
Although the Porte led peloton is losing time on Majka up ahead.
Boogerd_Fan

What is going to happen when Porte finishes his 50KM turn on the front???

What a joke.
mazda

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
What is going to happen when Porte finishes his 50KM turn on the front???

What a joke.

But he is going slower than Majka, and Pauwels for that matter.
So he isn't really trying. Rolling Eyes
gerry12ie

In work but has Majka started winking yet?
mazda

Mollema attacking.
Nibs going the other way.
Majka has his shades on.
mazda

Majka wins.
Martin second, back to within a minute.
Mollema still going.
mazda

So nothing happened at all.
Mollema gained 10 seconds.
Valverde 1 second probably.
phildange

gerry12ie wrote:
Bartali and I will be along in a minute to discuss the merits of radios Phil... Wink


A long time ago I was a founder of the "Join us in the "Forbid radios on the TdF League", but I received threats from the CIA . Or Wall Street, Idon't know, I never could make a difference .
phildange

As if that was not enough, el pobrecito Alberto lost Bennati after Basso . I'm amazed by the number of "abandons" in this early Tour . And quite some because of sickness .
Bravo Majka . He might aim to be again the KOM, and he's a real climber . Unfortunate Dan Martin . After the Mur de Huy, again . I hope he's rewarded soon .
mazda

Maybe FF will get his proper fight for the KoM after all.
Fontfroide

mazda wrote:
Maybe FF will get his proper fight for the KoM after all.


I live in hope.
phildange

I got a plan . Did you see these cows crossing the road in front of some riders today ? A well trained cow could do marvels for the Yellow Jersey struggle suspense ...
ventoux

phildange wrote:
I got a plan . Did you see these cows crossing the road in front of some riders today ? A well trained cow could do marvels for the Yellow Jersey struggle suspense ...


You ever tried to train a cow Phil?  Shocked
phildange

I'm a pro . I rode cows when I was a kid at my grands' farm . We won't let forever the shopkeepers ruin our venerable institution ! By all means . Get up, stand up, people of France, unleash your faithful war cows! Like in 1792 ! And for the last Christians, remember Jesus and the Temple merchants ...
Mrs John Murphy

I think what cows leave behind in the field is a perfect metaphor for this tour.
Boogerd_Fan

Bertie's already had some beef in the past...

if a cow were to "accidentally" end Froome's tour,  everyone would be pointing the finger at Tinkoff's leading rider thanks to his cow connections.

enough hoofing around tho - mollema may have only 10s on the lead group, but he distanced Nibs meaning he slipped back into top 10. Gutsy. Hopefully he will recover nicely for tomorrow's stage. 3rd day in the mountains, usually means carnage.
Nolte

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Bertie's already had some beef in the past...

if a cow were to "accidentally" end Froome's tour,  everyone would be pointing the finger at Tinkoff's leading rider thanks to his cow connections.

enough hoofing around tho - mollema may have only 10s on the lead group, but he distanced Nibs meaning he slipped back into top 10. Gutsy. Hopefully he will recover nicely for tomorrow's stage. 3rd day in the mountains, usually means carnage.


cows are hazardous, in may on a hill i was stopped for 10 minutes waiting for a farmer to arrange cows back in his field.
the reason i didn't want to go past was a week earlier, i went past 2 other cows and they want to chase after me. thankfully the farmers dog was able to get them under control.
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
Bartali and I will be along in a minute to discuss the merits of radios Phil... Wink


I'm here .... now what were we saying about radios ... NOT Cool

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