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Biosphere

Tour 2014, Stages 15-18: Pyrenean Cassoulet, 20th-24th July

My residential internet has packed it in. Hopefully it's back in the morning and I'll edit this to include the profiles and so on, but for now a placeholder so people can chatter.
Mrs John Murphy

Biosphere

Stage 15, Sunday, July 20th: Tallard / Nîmes - 222km
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Stage 16, Tuesday, July 22nd: Carcassonne / Bagnčres-de-Luchon - 237.5km
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Stage 17, Wednesday, July 23rd: Saint-Gaudens / Saint-Lary Pla d'Adet  - 124.5km
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Stage 18, Thursday, July 24th: Pau / Hautacam - 145.5km
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Biosphere

Today's social interference was a lunchtime event so I'm actually current at 18:00 for once. Quite a chaotic run-in and I thought the break were going to do it. Not sure how the judges decide between Elmiger and Bauer for the most combative prize, but Elmiger seems to have got the nod.

Interestingly enough (or probably not Smile), our Italian lunchtime guests had just flown in from Sicily and brought with them fresh Cannoli that they purchased this morning. It was packed in dry ice to keep it cool for the travel and hand carried on to the plane. Basically it was bag containing predominantly a soft paste with 'smoke' coming out of it. Not a problem for Sicilian airport security! Probably all too busy reading the sports pages. Laughing
HuwB

Had I known you had a problem, I would have popped them on, Bio, but it's been a day away for me. Embarassed
Not a lot to say about today except we have better weather than the S of France and at least the last kms kept us guessing until the end.
I guess we found out which sprinters came through the Alps best, too.
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
Had I known you had a problem, I would have popped them on, Bio, but it's been a day away for me. Embarassed
Not a lot to say about today except we have better weather than the S of France and at least the last kms kept us guessing until the end.
I guess we found out which sprinters came through the Alps best, too.


No worries, and a photo of the dish in question was an alternative bonus Smile Anyway, it's all working again. Our town has it's own ISP so it can be a bit flaky at times, but more than offset by the advantage of being able to pop into the shop to speak to a real person! As for the weather - it's tropical monsoon season here Rolling Eyes I may have my first bike commute abandon of the year tomorrow.

And not forgetting the sprinters - Kristoff is looking pretty good for sneaking another win on Friday.
HuwB

Rui Costa DNS today. Bronchopneumonia.


Today's lanchpad:


ITV rest day programme had the usual doping chat speculation, but the line of the night goes to Gary Imlach:


"it's hard not to wonder whether a pledge from Alexandre Vinoukorov is worth the French it's mumbled in"...
Smile
mazda

They're off.
After a quiet start 12 riders got away - including Kwiatkowski and more surprisingly Bernard Eisel.

The gap got up to over 90 seconds.
However a few teams are chasing them back now, due to not having anyone in the break Rolling Eyes

Majka took the Cat 4 to now lead the KoM.
mazda

Seems like the chase has dropped JVDB, Porte, Nieve, J-Rod, Sagan; a few amongst 50.
mazda

After a brief merge there are 21 ahead now.
Gallopin, Van Avermaert, Slagter some of those who have joined.
The dropped peloton is back with the main peloton.

I think there is a headwind, which doesn't bode well for any attacks on the Port de Bales, but they will be heading south by the time they are close to the summit.
mazda

Garmin must really think Slagter is worth all the effort of that chase.
Other teams benefited at least as much - I think OPQS and Europcar got extra men into the break.

Gap growing quickly now.
HuwB

The headwind should drop and change direction to a more favourable quarter, by the time they reach the main climb.

The 21 have 6 and a half minutes, with 120 odd kms to go.
kathy

Majka now in KOM lead.
mazda

How long before Belkin try and bring the break back  Smile
mazda

11 minutes.
About time we had a nice lazy stage in the Southwest.
HuwB

So far I would describe this stage as long and tedious.
At least they should get it done very early, today.
HuwB

Movistar looking nice and refreshed after the rest day.
mazda

You missed off the  Wink
mazda

Kirienka getting back on.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Kwiatkowski make up all of the minute he was behind at the top - 3 seconds per km ?
mazda

Pinot did what he said he would do and gets to the top of the PdB in front (as far as GC is concerned).
Chapeau !
mazda

Anyone know where TJVG is ?
In front or behind Bardet ?
gerry12ie

Quote:
I see him ending up on the same road as Kiryienka who looked a genuine GC rider and real team leader when he was at Movistar but now looks like he might never see another win. In fact he reminds me of a broken down nag just fit for the knackers yard...
 Embarassed  Embarassed  Embarassed  Very Happy
HuwB

So, one big climb and a long descent blows the race apart more than multiple climbs.
Why am I not surprised.
Was surprised to see Pinot pop Piti, though.
Great final 40 minutes or so, the rest not worth watching.

1. NIBALI Vincenzo 41 ASTANA PRO TEAM 73h 05' 19''
2. VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro 11 MOVISTAR TEAM 73h 09' 56'' + 04' 37''
3. PINOT Thibaut 127 FDJ.FR 73h 10' 25'' + 05' 06''
4. PÉRAUD Jean-Christophe 81 AG2R LA MONDIALE 73h 11' 27'' + 06' 08''
5. BARDET Romain 82 AG2R LA MONDIALE 73h 11' 59'' + 06' 40''
6. VAN GARDEREN Tejay 141 BMC RACING TEAM 73h 14' 44'' + 09' 25''
7. KONIG Leopold 201 TEAM NETAPP-ENDURA 73h 14' 51'' + 09' 32''
8. TEN DAM Laurens 67 BELKIN PRO CYCLING 73h 16' 31'' + 11' 12''
9. KWIATKOWSKI Michal 74 OMEGA PHARMA-QUICK STEP 73h 16' 47'' + 11' 28''
10. MOLLEMA Bauke 61 BELKIN PRO CYCLING 73h 16' 52'' + 11' 33''
mazda

Quite a lot of change from 4th down.

Peraud now top AG2R - probably as expected.
TJVG too far back to podium.
Ten Dam now #1 Belkin boy.
MK up to 9th.

Plus we can look forward to at least Pinot attacking at some point tomorrow.
Fontfroide

Just a quick word, maybe two.  Mazda, not sure where you get the idea that Bardet does not attack (aside from today, where survival was the strategy and he did it well).  In France, amongst many people who watch races and make commentary, he is known as an attacker.  Young, not so strong as some, but an attacker.  Pinot as well, bless his socks.  But we might have to wait to see it this Tour.  I think the young fellow has run out of juice a bit more than he hoped.  At least today he did.  Still, sixth, not too bad.

Secondly, my favourite moment of the race, which overall today did not provide a whole heck of a lot of really exciting incidents until the end, was when Rogers caught Gautier on the descent.  I really liked how he eased up to Gautier, who had seen him coming and was probably expecting him to latch onto his wheel for a minute or two.  Just as he got to Gautier, Rogers started pedalling like fury and just blew past Gautier so fast that Gautier had no chance of ever catching him.  A wily old guy is always fun to watch.

Who would have thought there would be three French guys in the top five?
Boogerd_Fan

Pinot has really come a long way in this year's Tour. In 2012 he was a bit lucky (taking chances when the opportunity arose to grab stage victories and ride top 10 GC). He looks the complete package this year.

Disclaimer: We are before the only ITT ! Smile

If Peraud can hang on in next 2 days, he will surely be favourite to podium as highest Frenchman... but great to see both him and Pinot do so well.. they both suffered badly last year. Having suffered similar broken clavicle, the fact Peraud carried on in 2013 Tour and still crashed again on the same side... well... firstly OUCH and secondly kudos. That is balls of steel.
gerry12ie

So Kwiatkowski is back in the top ten I see.  He will probably move up to seventh or something tomorrow, drop back to 14th on Thursday and finish in the top 5 after the ITT!
Bardet had to have a bad day in the final week, I hope he doesn't try too hard to make the time up or he could blow up altogether.
Rogers, who would have thought he would turn into GT mountain stage hunter? Wink
cadence

The pessimist in me says TJVG will not make the podium now.  With two more stages in the Pyrenees he will most likely lose even more time.  If he can't podium in a year when two of the top contenders are out of the race I just don't see it ever happening... Sad
HuwB

Just going to add the other climb details for tomorrow.
Is it too short a stage to be called the Queen?

Map








[/img]
mazda

Fontfroide wrote:
Just a quick word, maybe two.  Mazda, not sure where you get the idea that Bardet does not attack (aside from today, where survival was the strategy and he did it well).


FF, not sure where I have said anything negative about Bardet.
I only mentioned Pinot because I read what I said earlier - that Pinot had said he would be first GC to the top of PdB, and he was  Evil or Very Mad
He even dropped Valverde.
That last bit in particular means he will try and do so again.

None of the admiration for Pinot is a condemnation of Bardet.

I have no doubt that if he feels up to it he will try and get some time back for himself or Peraud.
levi

I think PINOT looks as if he is good french prospect
for the future BADET not to bad either good luck to the
both of them.
cadence

levi wrote:
I think PINOT looks as if he is good french prospect
for the future BADET not to bad either good luck to the
both of them.


Can either of them do a decent TT?
HuwB

cadence wrote:
levi wrote:
I think PINOT looks as if he is good french prospect
for the future BARDET not to bad either good luck to the
both of them.


Can either of them do a decent TT?


It's rolling course. Both are fairly respectable trialists, but not super.
Whoever gets through the next two days with the most in the tank, wins, I suppose.

Listening to Teejay's post stage interview, I don't fancy his chances.
He said he just couldn't hold onto Movistar's "insane pace"

Today's weather. Looks like they get a tailwind as far as the Spanish border.

Fontfroide

[quote="cadence:221468"]
levi wrote:


Can either of them do a decent TT?


As Huw says, neither are good ITT guys, but at the end of the Tour and for a podium place who can tell.

If you listen to what they say, and what they do (Bardet has never done a 54k TT in his life), then Pinot might lose three minutes on Nibali and Bardet up to five.  But it really is unknown at the end of a three week race.  Bardet is a bit young, second pro year, and probably is the least predictable.  

Bardet claims to love the Pyrenees with their changes in rhythm, but for all we know he is wasted.   He claimed that he didn't have a jours sans, but just a small lack of juice yesterday.  He didn't lose time on several other contenders.

Peraud seems to be able to follow anyone, but not have enough juice to attack.  We shall see.  He has only been riding on the road for three years.
mazda

Anyone think Tinkoff will try to control the stage to give Majka a chance of the KoM?
J-Rod isn't actually climbing all that well (although he is expecting to be improving throughout the Pyrenees).
So could they actually drop him on the first or second climbs ?

Putting Majka in the break just seems rather predictable and open to the obvious flaws that he might not catch the right break and J-Rod will just go with him anyway.

Might TV have another try ?
Not like he exerted himself too much yesterday.
Nolte

Fontfroide wrote:
Just a quick word, maybe two.  Mazda, not sure where you get the idea that Bardet does not attack (aside from today, where survival was the strategy and he did it well).  In France, amongst many people who watch races and make commentary, he is known as an attacker.  Young, not so strong as some, but an attacker.  Pinot as well, bless his socks.  But we might have to wait to see it this Tour.  I think the young fellow has run out of juice a bit more than he hoped.  At least today he did.  Still, sixth, not too bad.


i know the first time bardet came to my attention was when he was in the early break in either amstel gold or liege bastogne liege, he gets caught in the last 20km and 3 or 4km after getting caught, he was out attacking again Very Happy

break still under 1 minute though katusha are suffering and simon spilak has packed it in.4 katusha on the front now.
mazda

Mollema is up the road in the J-Rod group.
Nolte

luke durbridge collides with a person in movistar apparel. i think durbridge wanted to deck him
mazda

Kiryienka is off on a solo effort.
Clearly stung by the criticism he received on this forum a couple of days ago.
gerry12ie

mazda wrote:
Kiryienka is off on a solo effort.
Clearly stung by the criticism he received on this forum a couple of days ago.


Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

I know nothing Jon Snow
gerry12ie

I still wouldn't buy a used cyclist from Brailsford, mind. Wink
Fontfroide

On the other hand, I have a woman friend who is riding the used second bike of Uran while riding for Sky.  She loves the bike.  She is quite small, so I guess Uran must be a little fellow too.
HuwB

Finding the KOM battle very cagey stuff.
Kiriyenka has dusted off his old, Movistar motorbike for today. Smile
He'll take some catching.
Fontfroide

Good to see FDJ at the front, getting things ready for Thibaut.  Allez Thibaut.
Fontfroide

Mind you I have a soft spot for Vasil K, as he has the same first name ad my middle name.  Surely that is enough reason to support any rider.

Vas y Vasil.
Fontfroide

And a sprinter leading the first group up a hill?  Is no one racing?  Maybe Arashiro has a new career change ahead.
gerry12ie

HuwB wrote:
Finding the KOM battle very cagey stuff.
Kiriyenka has dusted off his old, Movistar motorbike for today. Smile
He'll take some catching.


You would be forgiven for thinking that Vasil and Movistar might have have 'rested up' together on Monday, seeing as they are both quite revitalised Wink
Fontfroide

I was impatient, both the yellow jersey group is thinning out and the escape is getting serious.  Yesss.

And then what happens, just as it looks like Bardet and Pinot are vague;y attempting to descend quickly (not really dropping Nibali or anything) my TV guys decide the descent is somehow not interesting and give us a advert break.

So how many minutes will J Rod, Majka and Rolland have at the start of the last hill?
Fontfroide

Looks like Bardet can descend.  Good to know for future reference, even though it won't make a difference today.
Fontfroide

Looks like only Peraud can keep up with the Italian.

Vive the old guys.  

4k of excitement
HuwB

Bertie's domestiques go 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st on consecutive mountain stages.
Majka even manages to wink for the cameras.
Climbing better tha the Giro.
Mutants?
mazda

Looks like today is going exactly to plan  Very Happy
mazda

HuwB wrote:
Bertie's domestiques go 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st on consecutive mountain stages.
Majka even manages to wink for the cameras.
Climbing better tha the Giro.
Mutants?


Just shows you how much they have to give up to support a team leader.
Especially the way the UCI WorldTour points and rankings work (or don't work).
HuwB

Majka finished way too fresh for my liking.
Don't trust Tinkoff as far as I could throw him.
I would be amazed if Kreuziger could have bettered his form.
I'm fairly certain Nibali would not be winning this Tour had Bertie not crashed.
With his team, Froome would be lucky to be hanging onto Valverde.
His team mates are all immense in this 3rd week.

Edit:
Philippe Maudit, the Tinkoff director now claiming that they had Majka down to ride this Tour, since last November and that he was given just 8 days rest after the Giro. Rolling Eyes
Mrs John Murphy

Agree entirely Huw. Majka looking like a certain skinny Dane.

Roche's performance raises eyebrows as well. Sad

Shiti Piti blows gets paced back as TVG wheelsucks Pinot. TVG attacks and fails and Piti having looked there for the taking gets seconds back.

Nibs gets his tactics wrong attacking for the second time after Piti blows, only takes JCP with him instead of the bigger group. Piti loses the least of the losers.
Fontfroide

Nice wee short on Bartali on the box during Velo Club.  Poulidor and Daniel Mangeas, as well as Gerard Holtz (also Chevalier d'Honneur this year), also got hams, from the area of course.  Mangeas is retiring from being the Speaker of the Tour, they guy who does commentary at the finish line and introduces the riders.
Fontfroide

I tend to have some serious prejudices too.  I don't share the prejudices against Sky for some reason, but I must say that any team named after a missile and run by Putin is not on my list of favourites.  I also have a bit of trouble with Astana and Vino, although I am not suggesting that Nibali is using anything but Sicilian grit and hard training.

Then again whenI see Riis and Tinkoff embracing and laughing, well …


I wonder if my prejudices or predispositions are simply that, or are they based on reliable hunches.

But the French, they tend to ride like clean riders, non?
HuwB

The plot thickens.
Check out the Tinkoff lineup for San Seb:

http://www.procyclingstats.com/ra...ista_San_Sebastian_2014-Startlist
gerry12ie

HuwB wrote:
Majka finished way too fresh for my liking.
Don't trust Tinkoff as far as I could throw him.
I would be amazed if Kreuziger could have bettered his form.
I'm fairly certain Nibali would not be winning this Tour had Bertie not crashed.
With his team, Froome would be lucky to be hanging onto Valverde.
His team mates are all immense in this 3rd week.

Edit:
Philippe Maudit, the Tinkoff director now claiming that they had Majka down to ride this Tour, since last November and that he was given just 8 days rest after the Giro. Rolling Eyes


Maybe he is the new Marino Lejerreta Rolling Eyes His winks were as disturbing as anything I have seen since Deliverance.  When you put their mountain stage finishes as starkly as 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st and you throw Riis and Tinkoff into the mix well its difficult not to be sceptical.  Still, they are not involved in GC so its all ok... hiding in plain sight.

I still don't think they would have rolled Nibali over too easy, mind.
Mrs John Murphy

You wonder what Saxo would be doing if Dertie and Hernandez had stayed on their bikes.

They aren't even trying to be subtle about it. This is up there with Ricco and Piepoli making motorbike noises.

The Majka winks were really disturbing, once, maybe, but twice...
gerry12ie

How disturbing do you want?


gerry12ie

Majka got a 50 CHF fine, 10 second time penalty and 5 points - no KOM deduction.
Boogerd_Fan

i'm sure there will be some PR spin about the winks being to Bertie watching at home...
Fontfroide

I am a little embarrassed, but neither my wife nor I thought the winks were anything other than a kind of little wink to the spectators.  A kind of funny salute (not as imaginative as Sagan's), of a guy totally fit, physically and mentally, and happy to show it.  Nibali or Froome would never do that, but Sagan would.  And has.  Voigt would also.

I just thought it is what young athletes do, a gesture that gets talked about a bit.  Maybe even becomes a trademark.

Are you guys sure about getting so scared or finding it odd and awful?
gerry12ie

FF, Majka caught the eye last year and there is no doubt he has a big GT future but the transformation from the Giro to TDF is a little beyond belief for such a young guy.  Admittedly, without Contador and Froome the TDF has a different dimension but his target was the Giro and he didn't do all that well:

Stage 14 - Oropa 19th @ 2'47"
Stage 15 - Montecampione 6th @ 57"
Stage 16 - Val Martello 7th @ 4'08"
Stage 18 - Valsaguna 14th @ 2'49"
Stage 20 - Zoncolan 21st @ 4'59"

Comparing his target race to the race he was drafted in as late replacement for a rider with passport abnormalities and something doesn't stack up.  TDF mtf's - 2nd, 1st, 1st - and Majka had this to say when he was drafted in to the Tour team:

Quote:
"Before the start of the season my calendar was primarily based on the Giro d` Italia, and later the Tour de Pologne and the Vuelta a Espana," he wrote in a statement on his Facebook page. "Upon completion of the Giro, the management team wondered about my start in the Tour de France, but I was skeptical about this idea.

"Since my return from Italy I have not trained much, I was very tired and still feel the effects of this 3-week race. I do not feel ready to compete in the Tour de France. Yesterday I got a phone call from Bjarne Riis, who said that my start in France has already been decided and that I have to go. "I'm not happy with this decision. I believe that the Tinkoff-Saxo management does not care about my health. I'm 24 years old and I believe that riding two Grand Tours in a row at my age is too much. I hope I am wrong. However, I have concerns.


Three weeks later and he is winning so easy he has time to wink at cameras?
levi

do you wise one's think T.PINOT will be on the podium in the future.
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
Majka got a 50 CHF fine, 10 second time penalty and 5 points - no KOM deduction.


I guess they didn't like the winking either then!
HuwB

gerry12ie wrote:
FF, Majka caught the eye last year and there is no doubt he has a big GT future but the transformation from the Giro to TDF is a little beyond belief for such a young guy.  Admittedly, without Contador and Froome the TDF has a different dimension but his target was the Giro and he didn't do all that well:

Stage 14 - Oropa 19th @ 2'47"
Stage 15 - Montecampione 6th @ 57"
Stage 16 - Val Martello 7th @ 4'08"
Stage 18 - Valsaguna 14th @ 2'49"
Stage 20 - Zoncolan 21st @ 4'59"

Comparing his target race to the race he was drafted in as late replacement for a rider with passport abnormalities and something doesn't stack up.  TDF mtf's - 2nd, 1st, 1st - and Majka had this to say when he was drafted in to the Tour team:

Quote:
"Before the start of the season my calendar was primarily based on the Giro d` Italia, and later the Tour de Pologne and the Vuelta a Espana," he wrote in a statement on his Facebook page. "Upon completion of the Giro, the management team wondered about my start in the Tour de France, but I was skeptical about this idea.

"Since my return from Italy I have not trained much, I was very tired and still feel the effects of this 3-week race. I do not feel ready to compete in the Tour de France. Yesterday I got a phone call from Bjarne Riis, who said that my start in France has already been decided and that I have to go. "I'm not happy with this decision. I believe that the Tinkoff-Saxo management does not care about my health. I'm 24 years old and I believe that riding two Grand Tours in a row at my age is too much. I hope I am wrong. However, I have concerns.


Three weeks later and he is winning so easy he has time to wink at cameras?


Those are exactly the reasons that led me to make my posts.
Especially when you factor in that Tinkoff are now saying he was always in this Tour team and he had just a weeks rest in between races!

Who winks 7kms from the finish of a hors catagory climb?
To me, it signified that he knew that he was in no danger of running out of gas, wasn't going to get caught, but was going overall Visconti's 30 second lead with ease.
Given the amount of effort he was able to put into his victory celebration,
I'd say that is a pretty fair assessment.

All, during the most competitive race of the season.
Boogerd_Fan

To be fair (not sure how much this would impact his regen) he had a very quiet first half of the Tour losing nearly 90 minutes.

Winking to the camera in that style, was a bit crass. You'd expect professional athletes to be extra careful with that kind of stuff. Didn't they learn anything from Ricco/Piepoli ?
HuwB

Anyway, on to today and the weather:

SlowRower

HuwB wrote:
Who winks 7kms from the finish of a hors catagory climb?

To me, it signified that he knew that he was in no danger of running out of gas, wasn't going to get caught, but was going overall Visconti's 30 second lead with ease.


I think any professional athlete armed with a heart rate monitor and a speedo/powermeter would be able to make a very reliable assessment with circa 20 minutes of work time left whether they were going to run out of gas.

Hunger knock is a different matter, as this can strike almost instantaneously (and if you lose after this having showboated then you look like a bit of a t*t) but traditional fatigue builds up steadily during a TT or long solo climb and you know pretty early on in such an effort whether you'll be able to sustain your current effort.

If you're getting time gap information as well, which I assume he was, then you can easily work out if you're gaining time quickly enough. I don't recall him showboating in such a fashion when he got caught close to the end by Nibs on the stage where Porte first blew (Chamrousse?). He would have known he wasn't going fast enough and couldn't go any faster and was thus likely to lose.

So the winking is annoying, but in itself doesn't really tell us much beyond the fact that Majka either thinks he's being funny or he's a tw*t. The successive top rank performances after riding a hard Giro are much more of an issue, I'd say.
mazda

Fontfroide wrote:
I am a little embarrassed, but neither my wife nor I thought the winks were anything other than a kind of little wink to the spectators.  A kind of funny salute (not as imaginative as Sagan's), of a guy totally fit, physically and mentally, and happy to show it.  Nibali or Froome would never do that, but Sagan would.  And has.  Voigt would also.

I just thought it is what young athletes do, a gesture that gets talked about a bit.  Maybe even becomes a trademark.

Are you guys sure about getting so scared or finding it odd and awful?

I'm with you on this one FF.

When the first break (of 8 ?) was establishing itself after a few km Voigt spent 10 seconds smiling and waving to the camera whilst going flat out.
Spectators love this kind of thing rather than the android features of a lot of riders.

If you are a person that is irritated by Majka winning then his winking will irritate you even more. If not then it won't.

Majka can be a good climber and effectively had the first half of the tour as a training ride (losing 2 hours).
This gives him licence to go up the road to compete with the lesser GC men who have had to work really hard and still be considered naff enough to be allowed to go up the road themselves.

Be interesting to see how he plans to ensure he keeps the KoM today - primarily from Nibali who may want another stage win.
The commentators seem to think he would, to cement his win.
Mrs John Murphy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
To be fair (not sure how much this would impact his regen) he had a very quiet first half of the Tour losing nearly 90 minutes.

Winking to the camera in that style, was a bit crass. You'd expect professional athletes to be extra careful with that kind of stuff. Didn't they learn anything from Ricco/Piepoli ?


Except he didn't have a very quiet first half of the tour - he did an absolute monster turn on the stage in the Vosges when we saw the Saxo train in full cry before Dertie fell off.
Bartali

SlowRower wrote:
So the winking is annoying, but in itself doesn't really tell us much beyond the fact that Majka either thinks he's being funny or he's a tw*t. The successive top rank performances after riding a hard Giro are much more of an issue, I'd say.


I'm with you on this.  The winking per se doesn't bother me at all.  That he can produce such dominant results given his Giro and subsequent lack of training is the real issue.  He hasn't ridden as a GT rider for two weeks which arguably helps ... but as MJM notes, that doesn't mean he's had an easy ride.  I think the jury is still out, but its right to pose questions of Tinkoff - not least in the light of a resurgent Bertie, Krutzinger(sp?), Roger's transformation in to a Zoncolan taming mountain goat etc.
mazda

Any predictions for today.
Will Bardet try to attack early again ?
Hopefully he'll have some help on the 30 km descent if he does.
mr shifter

Anything to do with that Grease Ball Bjarne Riis from that Deutsche Telekom rubbish is suspicious with me.  Twisted Evil
Shush but don't say a word as it is over and let sleeping dogs lie but are you sure it's over as Bjarne Riis was at it from the start and he is still in the sport.
Can you believe it, Flucking Scumbags.

Quote:
In July 2008, the Tour reconfirmed his Tour De France victory but with an asterisk label to indicate his doping offences.

No I won't give up on this bastard and that Filthy Team he took to Glory with.

EDIT
Vinokourov spent years in that Scumbag Team.  Question
mazda

Maybe you should write a book ?
I'm sure there would be a market for that kind of thing.
Mrs John Murphy

Bartali wrote:
SlowRower wrote:
So the winking is annoying, but in itself doesn't really tell us much beyond the fact that Majka either thinks he's being funny or he's a tw*t. The successive top rank performances after riding a hard Giro are much more of an issue, I'd say.


I'm with you on this.  The winking per se doesn't bother me at all.  That he can produce such dominant results given his Giro and subsequent lack of training is the real issue.  He hasn't ridden as a GT rider for two weeks which arguably helps ... but as MJM notes, that doesn't mean he's had an easy ride.  I think the jury is still out, but its right to pose questions of Tinkoff - not least in the light of a resurgent Bertie, Krutzinger(sp?), Roger's transformation in to a Zoncolan taming mountain goat etc.


Ignoring the Riis connection, and ignoring Dertie's track record of suspect performances

It pays to remember that Tinkoff v.1 - Hamilton, Hondo, Petrov etc etc so they have had a reputation for signing dopers.

Rogers has a positive test and a very dirty track record.

They also picked up De Jongh after he left Sky.

And then you see the team performing 2,1,1,1 and a rider winning his second stage winking at the camera... and this is the new generation.
mazda

Back to today.

Break not getting a big lead, for whatever reason.
Either they are going too slowly or Astana are keeping them within reach.
Boogerd_Fan

If Nibs leads over Hautacam, would he win KOM too?
kathy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
If Nibs leads over Hautacam, would he win KOM too?


Depends where. Majka finishes.
mazda

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
If Nibs leads over Hautacam, would he win KOM too?

Assuming Majka gets zero then Nibali needs more than 30 points - 32 for 3rd would see him ahead by 1 point.
mazda

Here we go.
Valverde attacks from the top of the Tourmalet.
He conveniently has two team mates less than a minute down the road.
mazda

Caught.
I might have left them out there to stew for a while on the flatter roads if I had any say in the matter.
mazda

Rojas disqualified
José Joaquin Rojas has been excluded from the race because of sheltering behind a car for too long.

Shocked
mazda

Oh dear.
Nolte

mazda wrote:
Rojas disqualified
José Joaquin Rojas has been excluded from the race because of sheltering behind a car for too long.

Shocked


do you think cavendish is smirking from his sofa? Very Happy

the podium groupe looking at each other
mazda

Another oh dear.
Crying or Very sad
Nolte

valverde up to the bardet/konig/mollema group
gerry12ie

mazda wrote:
Rojas disqualified
José Joaquin Rojas has been excluded from the race because of sheltering behind a car for too long.

Shocked


I hate that shit of commissars coming down heavy on sprinters in the mountains.  Is petty a French word yet? Wink  Twisted Evil
mazda

TJVG finally looks good a week or so too late !
mazda

Nibali gets win #4.
Nolte

gerry12ie wrote:
mazda wrote:
Rojas disqualified
José Joaquin Rojas has been excluded from the race because of sheltering behind a car for too long.

Shocked


I hate that shit of commissars coming down heavy on sprinters in the mountains.  Is petty a French word yet? Wink  Twisted Evil


i think there would be 2 reasons:
- riders up in the general classement on the team
- rojas gil is not exactly the stereotypically bad at climbing sprinter. he does have some good climbing legs. his worse stage result since the climbing started this year was 76 on stage 8


pinot puts 4 seconds into pinot and tjvg, 42 into bardet and 50 into valverde
mazda

So, is Peraud "almost certainly" going to finish second with a battle for third ?
Nolte

mazda wrote:
So, is Peraud "almost certainly" going to finish second with a battle for third ?


an interesting guide being the time trial in vuelta a pais vasco, over 26km

peraud was 5th at 35 seconds, valverde 8th at 1'02, tjvg 9th at 1'05 and pinot 10th at 1'25

it was also a hilly tt and all 4 had positions on gv to ride for, peraud was 3rd, valverde 5th, tjvg 6th and pinot 9th overall
gerry12ie

mazda wrote:
So, is Peraud "almost certainly" going to finish second with a battle for third ?


Well his usually decent TT would suggest he would, but if anything has been proven in this TDF it's that I know Sweet FA Smile
gerry12ie

For those who like this sort of thing...


mazda

I think there is an element that Nibali is trying to show that he would have won regardless, that Contador wouldn't have pulled back all the time gap in the Pyrenees.
I think Contador and Froome would have beaten him at least once (nobody else has), but not by much.

What has impressed me the most has been his accelerations.
I don't recall him failing to get away when he has been minded to do so.
mazda

gerry12ie wrote:
For those who like this sort of thing...




Thanks Jerry.
I remembered Riis winning.
I think that shows everything we need to know about the mid-90s.
gerry12ie

mazda wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
For those who like this sort of thing...




Thanks Jerry.
I remembered Riis winning.
I think that shows everything we need to know about the mid-90s.


Aye, it also shows that nobody could get within an asses' roar of fin du sičcle Armstrong Wink

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