Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling
 


       justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The 3 GT´s
Biosphere

Tour 2013, Stages 8-9: The Pyrenees, 6th - 7th July

A weekend break in the Pyrenees. Almost seems too short and too soon. Should be a lively day tomorrow and we find out who's got the legs. Quintana having taken a battering during the week may stymie Movistar's plans, but the mass spectator crossing of the border will surely inspire the various Spanish contenders to try something. Pescheux's pearls of wisdom clearly haven't been reviewed for the months that they have been posted up on the web.

Stage 8
Jean-François Pescheux wrote:
The first key test
After eight days of racing, we reach the Pyrenees. The scene would be a familiar one if it wasn't for the start in Corsica and the consequences that is likely to have had. Where will the contenders be placed before taking on the very difficult Col de Pailhères, the first key test of this 100th Tour? No one can say for sure, even though it's a good bet there will already be some decent gaps between them going into this stage. My worry?
That Wiggins, Froome and Porte finish one, two and three at the summit of Ax 3 Domaines, which wouldn't sit well with the glorious uncertainty of sport! But we will have to wait and see. In any case, the Spaniards will be ready. They are heading into their terrain...







Stage 9
Jean-François Pescheux wrote:
Five passes on the menu
If you can say yesterday's stage could effectively be summed up, as far as the favourites are concerned, as a hill-climb decided on the final ascent, today's menu will have another flavour entirely? Firstly, it's a relatively short stage (165km). Next, it is extremely difficult, featuring no fewer than five passes. Our aim? To complicate the racing strategy and maintain the suspense? That's why there is a long and demanding 30km descent into the finish at Bagnères-de-Bigorre. We thought it might inspire the likes of Nibali or Evans to put together an interesting tactical plan in the hope of destabilising the likely dominance of the Sky Pro Cycling team.




HuwB

Very hot in the valley, while at the summit, the wind appears to be having a hard time making it's mind up:

Fontfroide

Maybe we should have a contest to see who can pick the first serious attack in the mountains.  Who will do it?  When?  Truth is we probably won't even have any action until the last 4-5k of the last climb, but I do hope for more.  But then I am a committed optimist.

Maybe Kessiakoff might see how his legs feel?  He could drag one or two other climbers who are not GC guys with him.  Nah, maybe not.  Too early, most of the riders have to figure out if they actually have legs after a week.
JohnD

There's an early break FF, 4 mins gap -

Johnny Hoogerland (Vacansoleil-DCM), Jean-Marc Marino (Sojasun), Christophe Riblon (Ag2R-La Mondiale) and Rudy Molard (Cofidis)

Eurosport live page here:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/livematch/570462.html

Alas, She Who Must Be Obeyed has decreed that we re-decorate the front room so i will be painting in the oppressive silence of Le Grande Sulk

Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad
Nolte

so how did they do yesterday

hoogerland - 14'53
marino - 14'53
rib sandwich lon - 0
molard - 0
Biosphere

Fontfroide wrote:
Maybe Kessiakoff might see how his legs feel?  He could drag one or two other climbers who are not GC guys with him.  Nah, maybe not . . .


Especially since he was forced to abandon on Thursday Wink

Another victim of the previous days crash that may or may not have had Bouhanni at fault. That's 3 out for Astana already and given that another one of those was Brajkovic, Fuglsang has lost strong men.
kathy

Will anyone try something today?  I wonder.....
HuwB

I have guests today, so I'm miles behind.
Probably won't catch up until this evening
and not wanting to find out the result.

I did however, watch the Lions match this morning. Very Happy

Christophe Riblon makes the break again?
4th time out of 5 in Tour first mountain stages apparently.
Biosphere

kathy wrote:
Will anyone try something today?  I wonder.....


Gesink and Voeckler making individual attacks now. Would expect some GC contenders to try something in the final kms.
mr shifter

HuwB wrote:

I did however, watch the Lions match this morning. Very Happy


.
So that was you singing, Great game. cheers

It's Robert and Les Dawson.
Biosphere

Didn't expect Quintana to go for it so soon!
Fontfroide

Waiting for Valverde attack.
kathy

Quintana leaving them all behind. Wonder if he's riding as a bridge for Valverde or for himself?
gerry12ie

Quintana has managed to maintain Pais Vasco form without turning a pedal in anger since then.
Biosphere

kathy wrote:
Quintana leaving them all behind. Wonder if he's riding as a bridge for Valverde or for himself?

Trying to reduce Sky to Porte and Froome ahead of schedule is my guess?
gerry12ie

Sky won't break the plan - no way.  Let's see how Quintana descends...
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
Sky won't break the plan - no way.  Let's see how Quintana descends...

Part of their plan was supposedly not giving Quintana any leeway though. TVG gone off the back. A lot of imitation Bianchi bikes towards the rear of the bunch.
gerry12ie

Four Saxos left and three Sky
kathy

Hm - Valverde is a pretty good descender.
Fontfroide

Rather pleasing to see a climber make an attack, drop the Sky peloton, no matter what the results.  Gives people an idea.

Didn't expect Tejay to get dropped.  Maybe just today is a bad day.
Fontfroide

My commentators are claiming Quintana can't descend, then Cedric said he was just waiting a bit.  To me he seems a very clean descender, good moves, steady work.

Does anyone think he can descend well?  I do.  Unlike Rolland, who wanders around the road surface a bit too much.
gerry12ie

Kennaughenka did a great job there Wink
Biosphere

Schleck and Evans gone.
Fontfroide

Everyone is getting dropped, incredibly serious riding.  First stage.
Biosphere

Sky have pretty much destroyed the field. Everyone gone now!
gerry12ie

Hard to see past a 1-2 for Sky today and for GC
gerry12ie

About as emphatic as you could get
Biosphere

Never thought I'd see Contador in that kind of difficulty.
Fontfroide

Although it appears that everyone was in that kind of difficulty today.  Although Valverde seemed to be riding OK, although more slowly than the Sky guys.  I hope we see more or him and maybe with the help of Quintana.
Bartali

Well thats that then.  All over until the Vuelta.
Beasley

Vroome Vroome Very Happy

& Don Alejandro completes the marginal gains 1-2-3

Saxo put the work in, but their boy just didn't have it.
Boogerd_Fan

Bertie still riding into form for WK 3?

Froome is right by saying its far from over.. but he's put a lot of hurt into a lot of people today. Problem now is they don't even have to watch a J-Rod attack... never mind an Evans surge (lol).

These time gaps are still small compared to what will be on Ventoux.

Slovak TV are covering the Tour for just the 2nd time with full live coverage.. their commentary is a bit dry.. but they certainly summed it up at the end: "Froome neuveritelny" aka unbelievable!

Kennaugh did well didn't he? Interesting to see that Froome didn't even use Porte.. a short while after he took over they'd already dropped everyone but Quintana, and Froome decided to go from a long way out to be fair.. will he pay for that effort later in the race??

Mollema & Ten Dam surprisingly good (compared to the rest)

Kreuziger looked stronger than his leader!!!
Bartali

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Mollema & Ten Dam surprisingly good (compared to the rest)


Not sure whether their ride worries me or whether their losses to Sky are about right and the others all had a disaster?
Boogerd_Fan

well the "message" coming out of Blanco/Belkin is of turning a corner... I do expect them to be riding clean... hopefully its not just a fanboy moment.

Both were in trouble further down the climb before finding their rhythm and coming back to groups they'd originally lost.

Maybe the heat was a factor for a number of dodgy performances today. A number of the guys who really underperformed like JRod and TJVG have had crashes in wk 1.
HuwB

I've just finished, just under 5 hours behind the leaders.
Family invited the rest of the family, (same ones that arrive with 6kms to go, last Sunday) had to cook them a meal...............


Well, that was a laugh. Moviestar had a definite plan that worked quite well on everybody bar Sky.
LTD Belkin's team leader is a step forward, BF?
Mollema's elastic just about held today.

BMC are done, Garmin on the brink, Bertie and Andy riding as choir boys it seems.
EE must be pleased........so far.

The French collapse, once again. Pinot will never win anything. He makes Colombians look like top descenders. Rolland rides like Voeckler.....enough said.

Big ? over one or two of the rides, but I'll reserve judgement for now.
Fontfroide

Overall I agree with the pessimism, probably the GC is over.

Possible solutions.
1.  An alliance (but these never seem to really happen)
2. A number of teams, in any order, including pretty good duos, attack.  Mollema and Ten Dam.  Valverde and Quintana.  Evans and Tejay (maybe not).  Nieve and Anton.  Kreuziger and Contador.  Although some of these guys have had a bad first day, I am assuming they are trained up professionals and will have better days.  they also all have teammates who can have good days and help out.  there were four Saxo when there were three Sky.
3.  Either Froome or Porte have a bad day (always a terrible argument especially with those two who don't have bad days)
4.  Sky let someone go who actually does some serious work and takes a block of time away (unlikely I suppose).

Sky guys can time trial.  Climb.  Keep out of trouble.

Hmmm, hard to make a powerful argument.  I think I will for for blind hope that things will get interesting.  It certainly was a good day at the races today.  

And we have the KOM to look at.  Nothing has happened there yet.
gerry12ie

HuwB wrote:

Big ? over one or two of the rides, but I'll reserve judgement for now.


Quintanambrogio? Wink
Boogerd_Fan

Ventoux + 2x Alpe... will still decide this.

Froomey could crack by then.

Or am i too optimistic??

ten dam isn't such a bad rider... maybe more of a power/watts climber than some others - so SKY's tempo might suit him. It also helps if he doesn't end up mummified in bandaid's before the mountains.

Bauke Mollema:
“I never was this good before, especially in the Tour de France.”
Bartali

Boogerd_Fan wrote:

Froomey could crack by then.

Shocked Not a chance ...... unfortunately!
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
HuwB wrote:

Big ? over one or two of the rides, but I'll reserve judgement for now.


Quintanambrogio? Wink


Quintana's palmares are solid.  How about Froomebrogio!!!
HuwB

Bartali wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
HuwB wrote:

Big ? over one or two of the rides, but I'll reserve judgement for now.


Quintanambrogio? Wink


Quintana's palmares are solid.  How about Froomebrogio!!!



Well, he hasn't lost much, but then again, he has raced much.

Let's just say I'm quite uncomfortable about his "unusual" preparation for this Tour.
He certainly has beome a firm forum favourite in a very short space of time.
The anti-Sky poster boy.

As for Froome, I think that folks tend to forget that he also hasn't travelled the normal European path. Very rough and ready 5 years ago.

I do know the BC place a lot of faith in their testing and the results riders generate.

Other than that, I know I don't know.
Boogerd_Fan

what about Kennaugh? his ride was a bit out of the blue! I've read UK mags about his potential, but thats the first time i've even seen him riding in the elite group, never mind setting the pace.
Bartali

That is true Huw.  I'm afraid I subscribe to the old addage that if its too good to be true it isn't true and in over 40 years of following this sport that has held up pretty well.

Quintana I don't know enough about so I will happily cast a more critical eye as you suggest.  As for Froome, and this is no reflection on BC, I just find him totally unconvincing. And the trained in that sporting backwater of SA etc a deeply unconvincing 'reason' for his miraculous emergence from no where.
Slapshot 3

I watched a vid of Sestriere 1999 after that stage today, I wanted to watch something I could believe in.....
Bartali

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing Classic!!!
Beasley

Interestingly, at its inception, Sky was seen as a vehicle to chauffeur Pete Kennaugh from Girobio podium to Tour de France winner.

Has to be remembered last year's road season was a complete write-off as he was preparing for the Olympics.

Actually, since the end of 2010 he's been riding double duty, with at least one eye on the track. Even then he put in a good ride at the 2011 Tour de Pologne to add another rider to Cavendish's WC train.
bianchigirl

Quintana won the tour de l'avenir which always used to indicate future GT contenders - of course the 'old ways' have been blown apart by brailsford's uncanny knack of picking up knockneed donkeys from their CQ rankings and turning them into thoroughbreds on hard work & altitude alone.

Froome just went from miraculous to mutant. Not. Normal.

As for master porte - last time I saw a rider doing track stands on a climb like that was Riis on hautacam in 1996

Sky are a joke - a most unfunny one
HuwB

bianchigirl wrote:
Quintana won the tour de l'avenir which always used to indicate future GT contenders - of course the 'old ways' have been blown apart by brailsford's uncanny knack of picking up knockneed donkeys from their CQ rankings and turning them into thoroughbreds on hard work & altitude alone.

Froome just went from miraculous to mutant. Not. Normal.

As for master porte - last time I saw a rider doing track stands on a climb like that was Riis on hautacam in 1996

Sky are a joke - a most unfunny one


You missed Bertie and Andy on this very hill, in 2010 then?
I recall Dennis Mechov finding it rather amusing.
HuwB

The usual cavalry charge to open up a multi mountain stage.
Break won't form for a while.
mr shifter

HuwB wrote:


Other than that, I know I don't know.
Nor do I. (From memory only.)
1994 Milan-SanRemo, I didn't know but respected that many times "Classics" winner Moreno Argentin who had put together and trained a team that worked for each other.
Then the Fleche and that 1st, 2nd, 3rd over the Mur and onto a TTT to win,

The rest of course is history including their success's in that years Giro.

So is it.
What goes around, comes around. ?
Nolte

it's going off.
phew glad a dog attacked me forcing me to abandon my cycle Very Happy
HuwB

Sky all gone.
Not sure what that says about the theory.
The Spanish now decide to gang up as
Contador somehow manages to send Costa up the road.
gerry12ie

Well I'm glad I didn't go out this morning.  130k to go and Froome completely isolated in the lead group with his team all over the road.  If he isn't careful he will break that radio!

Hesjedal and Danielson up the road and Los Amigos having a major chinwag.
mr shifter

Now we have a real GT race.
Have Sky made allowances for such a situation.
Froome on the radio all the time about the unbeatable train.
gerry12ie

Valverde softening him up - Contador next?
Biosphere

I am popping out for a while, but thanks for drawing my attention to the fact that there were pictures to be recorded at this early stage Smile

For those that have an interest, apparently yesterdays numbers suggest Froome and Porte pushed up against the clean feasibility limit (and if it's elastic maybe stretched it a bit), whilst everybody else under performed against expectations even for a clean era.

Sky got carried away and left too much on the road with two weeks to go?
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:


For those that have an interest, apparently yesterdays numbers suggest Froome and Porte pushed up against the clean feasibility limit (and if it's elastic maybe stretched it a bit), whilst everybody else under performed against expectations even for a clean era.

Sky got carried away and left too much on the road with two weeks to go?


Great power programme, pathetic recovery programme?
gerry12ie

Will you fix the FP thread when you get back pleased?  The typing on it is broken.  I wrote out Thomas de Gendt for today's stage and it came out as Wout Poels... Wink  Rolling Eyes
gerry12ie

Carlton is joined by Roche Snr. who immediately starts referring to himself in third person.  Kelly has gone out side to get sick...
gerry12ie

Porte now hanging out the back of Group 3
Nolte

according to the letour.fr live feed, there is a straggler group of 17 riders dropped from the peloton. this includes greipl, kristoff, sam dumoulin, cavendish, sieberg, roelandts, o'grady, westra, kent brockmans, veelers.

there is no time gap on it for the peloton or the stragglers.

the stragglers should be aware of http://www.stickybottle.com/lates...n-on-drafting-and-sticky-bottles/
Nolte

porte group is at 1:13
Beasley

Froome Gr. +45"

Porte Gr. +2'06"

13% cut off today. Porte should be fine, but it might be touch n' go for some of the sprinters.
Nolte

the picture showing now seems that porte and kannaugh have cracked in their chase. there is a group in front that they are losing ground to.
gerry12ie

A real jour sans for Porte
Nolte

Beasley wrote:
but it might be touch n' go for some of the sprinters.


based on the current speed, it is 12% of the winners time.
20% of the starters outside of the time limit wwould affect the time limit of the stage. that would be a group of 32 riders.

2 riders have quit today, benjamin noval and ivan jose guiteerez
gerry12ie

I heart Tommy de Gendt
gerry12ie

Porte on the move now - looks like he has recovered a bit and might make it across
Nolte

gerry have you seen martin in this group?
gerry12ie

It looked like him but Kirby said it was Hesjedal.  So it was probably Danielson... Wink
Fontfroide

Must have a quick nap, but for my money that was a seriously entertaining first half.  Seriously entertaining in lovely country-side I drove through on a few weeks ago.  I was happy as a pig in shit.

We seem to have a possibility of a surprising and competitive Tour.  Maybe.
Beasley

Porte out to two minutes now. Valiant effort, if nothing else. Still seems to be riding ok, though.

The Movistar Express' tempo isn't that punishing, it must be said. Maybe they're playing the (very) long game.

Last 30km of the stage downhill, Froome has one more climb to survive. 10km at 7.5%. Rather him than me!
gerry12ie

Bardet impresses again.  I likes the look of him.
Beasley

Halfway up.

The Don's boys still tapping it out. Pace visibly quicker, but not absolutely brutal. Capo Quintana lurking on Froome's wheel.

Conti keeping his powder dry or Saxo just can't add anything to the party?
Beasley

Quintana with the shortest of digs; Froome bridges, taking a fair few with him; Dan Martin counters. No one chasing.

Quintana goes again. Froome follows, dragging half of Spain with him.

Froomy should let him go. 30km to go once they're over the top. Long, long way for a featherweight
Beasley

GC group growing. 20-odd riders, easy.

Movistar putting the digs in, but the temp has dropped through the floor.

Within two kilos of the summit.
gerry12ie

Saxo much ado about nothing unless Contador reckons he can do a Vuelta stage 17 on the flat...
Fontfroide

Should be a fun descent, eh?
Biosphere

I didn't think Martin descended that well in Switzerland, so interesting to see how he goes today. Thought there would have been more attacks against Froome before the summit.
Bartali

Just back from my ride ... what happened to Porte?
Fontfroide

Total collapse after futile attempt to get back is one answer.

Nobody knows is the other.
Fontfroide

Kwiatowski even making a move, holy mackeral.
gerry12ie

Seeing as Movi have dragged Froome over all the climbs will they go as far as to set up the sprint for him? Rolling Eyes
Beasley

I know Movistar are advocates of marginal gains, but they didn't have to prove it to DB by towing the yellow jersey to the finish! Laughing

Another five categorised climbs down, 65km of time trialing still to come. Wink
pantanifan

I reckon Movistar will be pleased with today, if this is all the help froome is gonna get he could be in trouble in the alps... ?
Fontfroide

Delighted for Martin.  Delighted.  

And for whoever picked him.
Bartali

What's the cut off today?
Bartali

pantanifan wrote:
I reckon Movistar will be pleased with today, if this is all the help froome is gonna get he could be in trouble in the alps... ?


I'm surprised by today ... but I think this is a good assessment.
Biosphere

Well it's certainly not been a procession today. GC fizzled out towards the end, but credit to the teams that tried.
Beasley

Bartali wrote:
What's the cut off today?

The speaking heads on the Box were saying the cutoff was 113%, so it should be around 35 minutes.
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
What's the cut off today?


13% and according to Roche Snr it will be enforced rigidly this year
Nolte

gerry12ie wrote:
Bartali wrote:
What's the cut off today?


13% and according to Roche Snr it will be enforced rigidly this year


my calculation is 36 minutes 47 seconds.
HuwB

Moviestar collectively so strong, yet Froome gets out of jail.
Quintana the new Contador?
Bertie bluffing again.
Kennaugh has an excuse, but what about the rest?
An good old fashioned bad day for Porte?
No doubt the old PDM chestnut will do the rounds.

Great to think that the race is still wide open, contrary to
the many idiotic comments posted around the web.

Oh and I never saw Gesink until he appeared on the front. Embarassed
Fontfroide

Besides some great racing, even if it does not show in the GC too much, it WAS good to have somany small surprises.  Keeps folk from being too pessimistic.  Mind you I would always be optimistic, looking for something to happen.  Well, today, honestly, something happened.  Not quite sure yet what, but something.
Nolte

the first 182 riders came within at 26'20 so 10 minutes inside.

5 riders to my calculation not listed but then dennis didn't start, noval and guiterrez quit so 2 others not accounted
HuwB

Sky take another big hit.
Kiryienka outside the time limit...
gerry12ie

Yep thats a big hit alright
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
Kiryienka outside the time limit...


The Jour Sans gets more sansy! That surprises me. Something has gone wrong if the team is that cooked 7 or 8 days in.
gerry12ie

Biosphere wrote:
HuwB wrote:
Kiryienka outside the time limit...


The Jour Sans gets more sansy! That surprises me. Something has gone wrong if the team is that cooked 7 or 8 days in.


Apparently you can now see the Clinic from outer space Wink
Boogerd_Fan

DAMN!!!

so we've got a break for a week (maybe Froomedawg adding a few more seconds here and there in the TT) then: GAME ON.

if Froomey is going to try to defend every move from Quintana, he's going to be in for a long afternoon on Ventoux and Alpe. Especially with Valv and Bertie waiting in the wings when its' one tempo increase too many.

       justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The 3 GT´s Page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum