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Mrs John Murphy

The perfect Tour de France course?

Drawing on post from SM

smarauder68 wrote:
Another possible punishment in addition to taking the jersey consideration away would be to allow the riders back in the the next day, only if the team agreed to pay a fine of 10,000 euro per rider...the fine money could then be used to hire me as the race commissioner and route designer...Smile

Two ITT every year...one flat, one mountainous...all stages would find at least 1 cat 2 climb...the sprinters would have to climb or not make it to Paris...riders like Thor and Gilbert would be rewarded...no radios...only chalk board updates every 10km


So what would your 'ideal' TDF - what mountains, towns etc would you like to see visited? How many ITTs, TTTs would you have? What kind TTs - technical? flat? mountain? How many Frodo friendly stages would you have?

Changes to competitions like the KOM and MV? Other competitions you might introduce?
MAILLOT JAUNE

Good idea for a thread, but what would be your ideal TdF or other GT route mjm?
SlowRower

In general terms for any GT:

A twisting but largely flat TTT, benefiting those with good teamwork and strategy (e.g. ensuring the more sprinty types are on the front coming out of slow corners etc.)

A flat, straightish ITT, as a simple test of horsepower and position

(Both the above circa 50k)

An uphill ITT, circa 1000m ascent

Downhill ITT, reversing the route of the uphill ITT. Probably too dangerous, but it would be "interesting" to see the sprinters etc. hurtling downhill. The Schlecks would complain, so all the more reason to include it. Smile

(Do the uphill and downhill bits on the same day; up in the morning, down in the afternoon).

Three pure sprinter stages (one a week is hardly excessive) in addition to the final day.

Four stages where the pure sprinters might win, but where they could be flummoxed by an uphill finish or a climb close to the finish etc.

6 days in the mountains, preferably all MTFs.

3 or 4 mid-mountain stages, but with finishes designed to give the sprinters no chance, so the breakaways have a decent chance of staying away.

Have a specific sprinters' points competition and a non-sprinters' one, so that there's no scope for complaint that a single points competition favours sprinters over allrounders or vice-versa.

On balance, I think it is the riders that make the race rather than the course itself, so not too fussed about the route other than meeting the criteria above.
smarauder68

First off, I would bring back time bonuses(20-12-8 for all stage finishes EXCEPT the prologue and 5-3-1 for intermediate sprints...if nothing else it would liven up the first week and get the yellow jersey on more than just 1 or 2 riders. Late arriving riders would be allowed to continue, but would forgo any chance at any of the jersey's...

My Dream Tour De France

Sat, Prologue: Cherbourg to Cherbourg 14.5 km, interesting city with lots of cobblestones.

Sun, Stage 1: Cherbourg to Caen...I would love to see the tour start in Normandy since there would be no France if not for the sacrifices made in Normandy...Starting in Cherbourg so they could ride thru places like St.Mere Eglise, Point du Hoc, Omaha Beach, before finishing the 1st stage in Caen...There would be some rolling hills, worthy of Cat 2 or Cat 3 consideration before a flat sprint finish in Caen.

Mon, Stage 2: Caen to Rouen...Mostly flat sprinters day but with time bonuses and a sojourn thru Le Havre with strong winds, it would be an interesting stage.

Tues, Stage 3: Amiens to Bruges...Can you imagine a sprint finish in Bruges??? That would be an epic sprint finish on the cobblestone...The stage would probably be marred by strong crosswinds and riders made their way north from Amiens toward Bruges...

Wed, Stage 4: Bruges to Liege...plenty of little climbs around Liege...Could have a mini-MTF just outside the city...

Thurs, Stage 5: Liege to Luxembourg city...nice stage thru the rolling hills...lots of little cat 2 climbs.

Fri, Stage 6: Luxembourg to Nancy via Metz.

Sat, Stage 7: Nancy to Besancon ...First taste of the Alps...

Sun, Stage 8: Grenoble to Mount Ventoux....Epic stage on a SUNDAY!!!

Mon Rest Day 1:

Tues, Stage 9: Alpe Duez ITT....

Wed, Stage 10: Gap to Monte Carlo...A stage suited for the Samu's of the world....after a series of Cat 1 and Cat 2 climbs, a final descent into Monte Carlo with an exciting finish in front of the Monarch's lil house...

Thur, Stage 11: Cannes to Marseille...rolling hills to Marseille....chance for the pure sprinters.

Fri, Stage 12: Marseille to Beziers....transitional stage with a few small bumps...chance for the sprinters if they can climb a bit.

Sat Stage 13: Beziers to Andorra...The Pyrenees open with a MTF in Andorra.

Sun Stage 14: Andorra to Plateau De Beille....

Mon, Rest Day 2:

Tues, Stage 15: Foix to Luz Ardiden...

Wed Stage 16: Argeles-Gazost to Tormalet...One final chance to take time in the mountains...

Thur Stage 17: Pau to Bordeaux...Transitional stage with a sprint finish.

Fri, Stage 18: Bordeaux to Limoges...

Sat, Stage 19: Chateroux to Tours ITT(65km), goodbye one-dimensional climber types...

Sun, Stage 20: Orleans to Paris....

This would be the best tour ever in my humble opinion...Smile
bianchigirl

Rumour of Alpe d'Huez TT next year...
Mrs John Murphy

I think d'Huez needs to be put away for a few years. One of the biggest problems is when certain mountains, towns etc are used year in year out. Familiarity breeds contempt.

So key point - variety year in year out. There should always be a balance between 'classic', sprinter, breakaway, medium mountains, finishes after a descent, sharp climbs, long climbs.

I think TTTs need to be treated with care because of the way they can put someone 2+ minutes back before the mountains even start.

Structural changes

No race radios

Use new finishes, try to give every road stage something to help the breaks. If the pack is going to chase them down then they are going to have to work for it.

Make sure that the GC guys have things to interest them in the first week

If you do have a transition stage then make it hard, long, etc.

Reduce the size of the peloton - either 1-2 less teams or 8 man teams. This might reduce some of the chaos that often takes place in the first week. It also reduces some of the 'trains'.

Equalise the points for stage wins - the points comp should be a points comp.

KOM to favour people who can climb proper mountains.

Edit - I have a flight to catch so I'll post more later.
hengispod

smarauder68 wrote:
First off, I would bring back time bonuses(20-12-8 for all stage finishes EXCEPT the prologue and 5-3-1 for intermediate sprints...if nothing else it would liven up the first week and get the yellow jersey on more than just 1 or 2 riders. Late arriving riders would be allowed to continue, but would forgo any chance at any of the jersey's...

My Dream Tour De France

Sat, Prologue: Cherbourg to Cherbourg 14.5 km, interesting city with lots of cobblestones.

Sun, Stage 1: Cherbourg to Caen...I would love to see the tour start in Normandy since there would be no France if not for the sacrifices made in Normandy...Starting in Cherbourg so they could ride thru places like St.Mere Eglise, Point du Hoc, Omaha Beach, before finishing the 1st stage in Caen...There would be some rolling hills, worthy of Cat 2 or Cat 3 consideration before a flat sprint finish in Caen.

Mon, Stage 2: Caen to Rouen...Mostly flat sprinters day but with time bonuses and a sojourn thru Le Havre with strong winds, it would be an interesting stage.

Tues, Stage 3: Amiens to Bruges...Can you imagine a sprint finish in Bruges??? That would be an epic sprint finish on the cobblestone...The stage would probably be marred by strong crosswinds and riders made their way north from Amiens toward Bruges...

Wed, Stage 4: Bruges to Liege...plenty of little climbs around Liege...Could have a mini-MTF just outside the city...

Thurs, Stage 5: Liege to Luxembourg city...nice stage thru the rolling hills...lots of little cat 2 climbs.

Fri, Stage 6: Luxembourg to Nancy via Metz.

Sat, Stage 7: Nancy to Besancon ...First taste of the Alps...

Sun, Stage 8: Grenoble to Mount Ventoux....Epic stage on a SUNDAY!!!

Mon Rest Day 1:

Tues, Stage 9: Alpe Duez ITT....

Wed, Stage 10: Gap to Monte Carlo...A stage suited for the Samu's of the world....after a series of Cat 1 and Cat 2 climbs, a final descent into Monte Carlo with an exciting finish in front of the Monarch's lil house...

Thur, Stage 11: Cannes to Marseille...rolling hills to Marseille....chance for the pure sprinters.

Fri, Stage 12: Marseille to Beziers....transitional stage with a few small bumps...chance for the sprinters if they can climb a bit.

Sat Stage 13: Beziers to Andorra...The Pyrenees open with a MTF in Andorra.

Sun Stage 14: Andorra to Plateau De Beille....

Mon, Rest Day 2:

Tues, Stage 15: Foix to Luz Ardiden...

Wed Stage 16: Argeles-Gazost to Tormalet...One final chance to take time in the mountains...

Thur Stage 17: Pau to Bordeaux...Transitional stage with a sprint finish.

Fri, Stage 18: Bordeaux to Limoges...

Sat, Stage 19: Chateroux to Tours ITT(65km), goodbye one-dimensional climber types...

Sun, Stage 20: Orleans to Paris....

This would be the best tour ever in my humble opinion...Smile


good job. sm. can you put more thought and effort into it next time?!
i'd like a itt stage that goes from say nice to menton. testing with unbelievable scenery.
mont ventoux to make a return.
there is a need for the first week to be more testing, for the classic riders ,like gilbert to make their mark and to string out the field and reduce crashes.
have to say i loved this years tour. definitely went into my top 3 favourites.
1. 2004.
2. 2011.
3. 1983.
ullrichfan

Are you sure you don't mean 2003 rather than 2004?  In '04 Jan finished in fourth place - obviously a candidate for the worst Tour ever!
Bartali

ullrichfan wrote:
Are you sure you don't mean 2003 rather than 2004?  In '04 Jan finished in fourth place - obviously a candidate for the worst Tour ever!


No ... 2006 was the worse Tour ever Wink
hengispod

ullrichfan wrote:
Are you sure you don't mean 2003 rather than 2004?  In '04 Jan finished in fourth place - obviously a candidate for the worst Tour ever!


nope. 2004, partly was it was the tour i watched in france too!
ullrichfan

Bartali wrote:
ullrichfan wrote:
Are you sure you don't mean 2003 rather than 2004?  In '04 Jan finished in fourth place - obviously a candidate for the worst Tour ever!


No ... 2006 was the worse Tour ever Wink


Yes indeed!  We all missed the chance to watch Ullrich thrash Basso!  Wink
Bartali

Only in your dreams Ulle  Laughing
HuwB

2004? A real formulaic plod.
Was one of the 2 worst editions of the decade, along with the 2002, one trick pony event.

2006 was a great Tour for lovers of fantasy and science fiction.
hengispod

HuwB wrote:
2004? A real formulaic plod.
Was one of the 2 worst editions of the decade, along with the 2002, one trick pony event.

2006 was a great Tour for lovers of fantasy and science fiction.


nah, no chance huwb.
i was there ( as max boyce says) it was superb.
tommy voeckler in yellow for 10 days?
many other happy memories.
Guiness

hengispod wrote:

good job. sm. can you put more thought and effort into it next time?!


Laughing  Laughing

I loved this year's. Quite a bit fo drama of different sorts to previous TdF.

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