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MS

The "new" Giro

Memo to Giro organizers:

Stop listening to the riders and critics. What separates the Giro from the Tour  is the raw brutality of the courses. When you tame the courses and follow the Tour model, you end up with dull editions like this one. Zoncolan, Finestre, Plan de Cornones and true mountain finishes in the first week are what separates it from the Tour and what attracts hardcore fans. If you're intent on tinkering with the model, shorten the stages, as the Vuelta did in the early 2000s. You can justifiably claim you are making the course more "humane," while sticking with the model that led to a renaissance of the Giro over the past several years.
Bartali

Well said MS!!
Bartali

Memo to Giro organizers:

Well done chaps.  After years of entertaining Giri you have not only created the dullest edition in years, but a Giro without an Italian on the Podium.  Time to revert back to plan A.
Slapshot 3

Well said boys, It's not been brilliant. We needed something spectacular earlier in the race and few more of those mountain villages just before the finish...that sort of thing. Roll on La Vuelta cos the tour is just bland!!
Beasley

Bartali wrote:
Memo to Giro organizers:

Well done chaps.  After years of entertaining Giri you have not only created the dullest edition in years, but a Giro without an Italian on the Podium.  Time to revert back to plan A.

A travesty! Laughing

I've been able to catch pretty much all of it (and all the high mountain stages) and thought it was ok.
Boogerd_Fan

it's a shame that JRod didn't try to make is little accelerations on the Mortirolo a little longer - as that what de Gendt did manage to achieve, and look what happened next!

it wasn't as bad as forums/critics are making out... but at the same time, the main protagonists were definitely appeared more worried about their own creaking form, than in other years.

As the saying goes, they should've attacked in the mountains... but quite simply - they couldn't. Basso didn't have any petrol in his engine... and Scarponi's valiant efforts actually exposed how close he was riding to the limit.
MS

You would not have had the bland riding and the Liqiugas armada had the course been more like past editions. With this course, they sat on and bided time for the last couple days.

My fear is that they will mistake the close margin heading into the TT as evidence that it was "exciting" or "dramatic," as they did in the Tour a couple years ago, which was another yawner.
ullrichfan

Well, I enjoyed the race for what it's worth.  It felt like a cleaner race - no-one producing outrageous performances (well, you might suspect de Gendt, I suppose, and I'd always suspect Pozzovivo) - and the fact that a Garmin rider won it is more satisfying on a doping front.  I still think the favourites are on the special sauce but it's certainly been toned down somewhat from what I saw.

Rujano's poor performance?  Well, HuwB did point out that he was rumoured to be busted next for the biological passport - so that explains his no show
Nolte

well De Gendt's break away on saturday was really helped by the main group stopping for 10 minutes on the descent of the mortirolo for a cigarette break Wink
Bartali

ullrichfan wrote:
... and the fact that a Garmin rider won it is more satisfying on a doping front.  
Genuine question - Why should we believe Garmin is any different from any other team?
HuwB

Bartali wrote:
ullrichfan wrote:
... and the fact that a Garmin rider won it is more satisfying on a doping front.  
Genuine question - Why should we believe Garmin is any different from any other team?


A number of posters on the CN forum have suggested that the fact we saw no favourites attacking from more than 3kms out, mainly breakaway winners in the mountain stages and slower ascent times, as a general pointer towards a much "cleaner" peloton.

Since post race discussions usually deal in evaluations, here's a nice one to chew over.
I agree with much of what's here, with one or two glaring exceptions:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/featur...usions-from-the-2012-giro-ditalia
mazda

Yes, the mention of Danielson seems inappropriate and the mention of Time Bonuses seems plain wrong.
Bartali

Good article.  A cleaner peloton?  Maybe.  But I reiterate ... why am I supposed to believe Garmin are any cleaner than anyone else when the 'revelations' of VdV, Wiggins etc would, if anything, suggest otherwise.
Guiness

HuwB wrote:


Since post race discussions usually deal in evaluations, here's a nice one to chew over.
I agree with much of what's here, with one or two glaring exceptions:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/featur...usions-from-the-2012-giro-ditalia


This is a good read. Someone looking at it with his eyes & mind open. I don't know if I agree that this was a cleaner race. Ok I wasn't around to see it all as we were in hospital, but just because there wasn't that 'wow' factor...but it was a bit bland...doesn't mean there are less drugs on scene.
Fontfroide

I never managed to get into this Giro.  Some good bits.  Not enough attacking.  Good to see newish faces, de Gendt, Hesjedal, younger guys.  But what happened to the older guys?  The favourites?  Not a classic race.  Guys following each other around.  Awesome mountains.  Not enough attacking by anyone who was a big deal.  Did I say that already?  J Rod beating Cav was a bit of a drag, too many crashes for the Manx fellow.  Can't figure out how he got over those mountains, or why?

Every Tour can't be good or great, even the Giro.

Bring on the Tour.
Guiness

Bring on the Vuelta more like!  Out of the 3, Giro is first in my books, then vuelta, then the tour.
ullrichfan

Was it bland?  Surely it's all about perspective?  As that article states, the Canadians were going crazy over it.  Is it reasonable to suggest that just because there wasn't a national favourite up there in the GC that it was bland?  Christ, that would mean every TDF since 1989 was bland!

And I didn't say Garmin were clean, Bart - I just said it was more satisfying on a doping front.  This is because I'm reasonably confident that there isn't systematic doping going on at the team.  I wouldn't say that about some of the smaller Italian teams.  Of course, there are rumours that some of the Garmin team have their own doctors but there haven't been any positive tests, at least.  Alex Rasmussen's missed controls were before he joined them.  However, how many positives have there been in the other teams?
gerry12ie

ullrichfan wrote:
.  This is because I'm reasonably confident that there isn't systematic doping going on at the team.  


I think that's the key.
Bartali

But why do you think that?  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't understand why one would think the team is any more or less likely to be engaged in systematic doping?  JV talks a good story, but talk is cheap.  It wasn't that long ago that people said the 'french' were clean!
Boogerd_Fan

the "french" weren't winning races though Very Happy

I don't buy into the Garmin clean image either... but without any positives, they're either getting very lucky, have stringent internal controls in place, or are really squeaky clean! gosh!

JV's talk... who'd buy it? this is a guy who helped Lance to his Tour victories - so he's seen firsthand how to hide doping.
maffy

Bartali wrote:
why am I supposed to believe Garmin are any cleaner than anyone else

you just are. race radios may or may not be great, and a franchise system is the way forward so we can all become supporters of team management entities rather than people who just like to watch some bike racing.

think that picture's still available here.

---
st17 might also be worth another look in the middle of winter on a turbo. maybe.
gerry12ie

I suppose its as simple as actually wanting to believe (in) Garmin.  There is very little reason to absolutely trust any team in cycling on past evidence, but I reckon all the talking and tweeting JV does would look pretty hollow were any organized doping revealed at Garmin and tbh I think he is a too much of a media luvvy to ever expose himself to the reaction to such open hypocrisy in that instance.  

Is it actually becoming a little easier to believe in a cleaner sport these days or has governance just given up the willingness to expose doping and act on it?

The one major issue that I would have with Vaughters, however is the radio issue.  Parcours can be as Zomegnan difficult or Prudhomme easy as races choose but the biggest enemy of exciting racing is a mindset that is radio controlled.  The bland tdf climbs that now fail to excite were once the stuff of legend.  The mountains haven't changed so it has to be the riders and even the monster climbs have all delivered disappointing stages in recent enough years - only de Gendt ignited last saturday's stage, the favorites rode very conservatively.

It was a shame that the prospect of reasonable debate on the radio issue was shelved last year following Weylandt's tragic death but the grand tours are being strangled by dull, controlled racing, not necessarily poor corsa.
HuwB

Very interesting. Acquarone wants the fans input as to how to construct the quintessential Giro:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/...nd-the-rcs-team/what-do-you-think
Bartali

I'll be writing a very strong letter to him .....

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