| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| kathy |
TdF stage 17- Bourg St. Mauice - Le Grand Bornand 22nd July
Shark's teeth! |
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| Nolte |
will final climb make a difference or is it too long to the finish from the top of it? | ||||||
| nzovu |
Well Saxo are saying they'll attack already on Col de Romme... | ||||||
| HuwB |
I like the snazzy cyclingnews pics.
* Km 18.0 - Cormet de Roselend (D.902-D.925) - 18.1 km de montée à 5.7 % - Catégorie 1 * Km 56.0 - Col des Saisies - 15.1 km de montée à 6 % - Catégorie 1 * Km 111.5 - Côte d'Araches - 6.3 km de montée à 7 % - Catégorie 2 * Km 140.5 - Col de Romme - 8.8 km de montée à 8.9 % - Catégorie 1 * Km 154.5 - Col de la Colombière - 7.5 km de montée à 8.5 % - Catégorie 1 Hammer goes down at Cluses. Attack on the Romme. Combined 16.3km at 8.7%, after today, will create havoc. The decent into Le Grand Bornand is short, so if you get dropped, you stay dropped. |
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| Bartali |
I'll believe it when I see it Huw! That said ... I'll be setting up the HDD in the morning! 
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| inputjoe |
It's a brute. The forecast won't make it any easier: strong headwinds on final two climbs.
We'll see if Saxo are as good as their word. No Voigt tomorrow. The Sorensens and Frank Schleck gotta be pretty bagged after the work they did for Schleck junior today. |
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| redster73 |
Here's hoping Wiggins stays with em... | ||||||
| Beasley |
Saxo's last roll of the dice. If Cancellara gets over the Saisies he'll be trying to make that big gear sing all the way to Romme.
Sastre to give it a go? Or will he wait till the big one on Saturday? The Podium is out of reach, but I bet he'll be after a stage win. |
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| Hommedesbois |
I have a book 'Grands Cols' which I had forgotten about until today. It has Cornet ..... what a waste! All will reform after..... then another procession, unless Carlos thinks "sod this ....." I'm a dreamer...... | ||||||
| cyclingtv |
to hell with timidness and watching the astana train..
what we need is a gc contender to try to do a flandis.. I believe it's the only way to shake this thing up and let us see who really wants to win this farce of a tour 
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| joux-plane |
I think if anybody's gonna do that on this stage it has to be Sastre. He's not gonna make up anything in the ITT - he'll actually lose time and saturday is too close to Paris and not a long enough climb for him to make up all his time. This stage is gonna be real tough esp. since its the 3rd of 3 mountain stages. We'll really see if Wiggins can live with the big boys. |
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| Jackov |
Huwb, your graphic has times that show a 7 hour stage. | ||||||
| smarauder68 |
Will this be the day when Sastre gets away or will he wait until Saturday? | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
At least Evans has an excuse for today already lined up then. |
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| HuwB |
Yeah, two and a quarter hours to decend into Le Grand Bernand. Maybe the commisaires have decided to hold the favourites, at the top of the Colombieres, until Uncle Lance catches up? 
NONE of the contenders will do anyting until the Romme. We have all FP'd the likes of Contador, but this course is designed for Mr polka dot aspirations. So, Contador still fears one man, he wants more time and that man is Wiggins. 
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| smarauder68 |
It was nice to see a GT contender(Schleck) actually try and attack Contador...instead of waiting for Contador to go first.
Will Wiggins ever be so brave? |
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| HuwB |
Contador beat the Schlecks to the punch on Verbier. The Schlecks will try to reverse that, today, but they can't hang about.
Of the rest, Wiggins is by far the best ITTer, so, his job is to follow wheels. I expect Kloden to do the same thing. Ironic, that when the Columbia/Armstrong group took that 40 seconds, in the wind, Kloden was up front and pulled back. I'm not sure what to make of Armstrong's little burst, yesterday, having just watched a repeat on Eurosport. If he hd been able to follow initially, it wasn't his smartest bit of strategy. Anyhow, the Col de Romme is particularly vicious, steep but also with narrow roads. Look at the profile here google here |
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| nzovu |
Yes Armstrong's move yesterday was strange - it looked pretty effortless, so why didn't he follow in the first place.
But then again, Frank who had been dropped was also able to follow Armstrong back to the group (although with some difficulty). Maybe the pace in the front group just slowed down dramatically... |
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| nzovu |
That's bad news for everyone but Astana 
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
From what I saw, the gap went up to just over a minute, very quickly, then they slowed and it dropped to about 30secs at which point Armstrong then made the move. He probably couldn't keep up with the initial pace, so he bided his time and it paid off. | ||||||
| smarauder68 |
Thats not exactly how I saw it...I saw the gap quickly got to 30 seconds...stagnate and max out at 35 secs...then the pace and attacks subsided as A.Schleck was realed in and contained...then Armstrong realized 2nd place was slipping away and he took off. But you're probably right that he couldnt hang with the initial Schleck move. It would be interesting to see Armstrong freed up to launch his own attack but that cant happen. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
sm, I thought the time splits were larger, maybe I was getting mixed up, especially trying to make out what's going on in Flemish.... I could have been looking at the wrong time split.
But just checked on cyclingnews live text from yesterday: 16:32 CEST Moinard and Marchante are chasing the other two. Behind, Andy Schleck attacks! A few others are there, but not Armstrong... 16:33 CEST 36km/123km Schleck pushes on with Contador, while Wiggins is just behind them. Both Schlecks are there, Frank setting the pace. Kloden is there, while Evans and Armstrong have been dropped and are quite far back. 16:34 CEST That group contains Alberto Contador and Andreas Kloeden (Astana), Andy and Frank Schleck (Saxo Bank), Bradley Wiggins (Garmin-Slipstream), Vincenzo Nibali (Liquigas). Armstrong's group is 34" back now... 16:36 CEST Astaraloza is coming across to Pellizotti and Van Den Broeck... Contador's group is 2'11 back, while Armstrong's group is 47" down. 16:38 CEST Armstrong has jumped from that other group... 16:40 CEST Armstrong jumped out of the group and is trying to bridge. Kim Kirchen (Columbia HTC) has got up to him. Armstrong jumped again, but has been caught by Vande Velde and Rigoberto Uran (Caisse d'Epargne). They are pushing onwards. 16:42 CEST Armstrong is riding very strongly now...he's dropped the others, and has gone past Frank Schleck, who was dropped. Now Wiggins attacks, pushing on. Contador marks him. Armstrong is now back up with the others. That group is Contador, Armstrong, Kloden, Wiggins, Nibali and the two Schlecks. |
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| The Lemondheads |
well.... quite a few riders came back at around that time: Fränk, Kirchen, Vandevelde, Sastre. Guys coming back from the break like Zabriskie held onto the group. It looked like the split completely lost its impetus when it was clear that Andy had no chance of breaking either Wiggins or Contador. Fränk had gone, so Andy had gone from being in a position of power to being isolated with Contador still having Klöden in support and Wiggins having Zabriskie just in front. A honest review would say that Armstrong probably wasted a lot of energy trying to sprint back while Kirchen, Sastre came back much more smoothly and patiently to a group that had dramatically slowed anyway. It shows that Armstrong (and Sastre and Kirchen) won't give up on a high GC spot, which is commendable. But also shows that the real strong men of the Tour are Andy, Wiggins, Nibali, Contador and Klöden (and probably Fränk as well) and that these guys can drop the rest at will. How the next tier of riders (Armstrong, Sastre, Kirchen, Vandevelde etc) get on is more down to the whims and tactics of the top 5/6 rather than in their own hands. If they attack each other from early on the Romme today and really push it then Armstrong will lose several minutes. |
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| Bartali |
Great post Lemmonhead - I think you hit the nail on its head in that final paragraph | ||||||
| The Lemondheads |
It would have been an ideal tactic yesterday (and still would be today) if it were physically possible. The rider that Contador is worried about most is Wiggins, because he's the only rider that can potentially take time back on Thursday. An Armstrong attack would force a Garmin chase to defend Wiggin's position. It's a win-win for Astana: soften up Bradley before the ITT, and give Armstrong his moment to shine. But Armstrong doesn't have it in the tank. |
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| SlowRower |
Wiggins looked like he was on a club run as they approached the top of "Little Bernie". Even Schleck and Bertie looked like they were working hard from their pedalling actions (although they didn't look physically distressed) but Wiggo was still looking smoother than a cashmere codpiece. He also has a handy burst of acceleration as well.
I know there's a lot of ifs here, but if he stays with Bertie today and pulls some time back in the ITT, does anyone think he might risk a "death or glory" attack up the Ventoux to try and win overall, but with a very high risk of throwing away a podium place? (FWIW, I think Bertie is too strong, but hope springs eternal!) |
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| chardon |
 agree.
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| The Lemondheads |
Not unless Contador shows signs of cracking on the climb. It will need Andy Schleck to get some major time back today, at least enough to cancel out what he will lose to Contador in the ITT. Then you might get a full Saxobank assault on Ventoux which could expose Contador and allow Wiggins to go up the road. Garmin alone won't have enough gas to disrupt Astana who will be looking for a tempo train up the climb. Wiggins doesn't seem to believe that he can beat Contador in a straight fight, and he's probably right. |
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| SlowRower |
Wiggo doesn't strike me as a man to die wondering though, which would make for cracking entertainment. He just needs to pull a minute back in the ITT and keep up today. Can't be that hard, surely.
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
This is the chance of a lifetime for Wiggins. He started the Tour aiming for a top 20 placing and now he's within spitting distance of winning the Tour!!! What was it that the British cycling team said that they were aiming for a winner of the Tour by 2014. It could be sooner than expected. That would be so fantastic. But if it's not to be then I just so hope he can keep up and at least get a top 5 or Podium place at the least.
Go Wiggo!!!!! |
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| SlowRower |
I was thinking more of Wiggo going against conventional logic, and giving it a lash just in case Bertie is bluffing and has nothing left. Riders are very good at bluffing, and if Wiggo waits for a sign of weakness, he might miss an opportunity. Would it be better to give it a go and finish an honourable 10th or play safe and bag an amazing podium spot? |
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| Slapshot 3 |
WUM last sentence...who in their right mind would throw away a probable podium to launch a suicidal attack on the best riders in the tour. He's still finding his feet at this level.... hang onto Bertos wheel do some damage in the TT |
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| Slapshot 3 |
...and they're off | ||||||
| The Lemondheads |
Great for the fans, not so great for Wiggo. |
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| HuwB |
...and the weather isn't kind.
Lance on Eurosport again, after being congratulated on his "attack". "Yeah, I felt good, but I can't match the kids, when they accelerate." |
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| SlowRower |
Slapshot - It wasn't a wind up. With your attitude Wiggo would have no chance of winning. "These guys are the best riders in the world, so I can't possibly beat them."
The point is, unless he attacks up the Ventoux (having pulled back time in ITT), he won't know. By then, the Astana and Saxo guys might be f*cked and unable to hunt him down. I've already acknowledged that it would be highly unlikely to be successful, given Bertie's strength, but the Schlecks are far from Superman and Bertie might have a bad day. This could be the last chance Wiggo gets, and does he really want to spend the next 65 years wondering what would have happened if he'd given it a go? The guy is a serial Terminator on the track and there's no reason to assume he's already accepted his limits on the road are defined as being below the top step of the podium. If it's not his last chance, it makes no difference, as he can take his chance again in subsequent years. |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
*wonders how smooth is a cashmere codpiece*
If Astana did try to pull that move, i'm sure Saxo would have something to say about it - Schleck (as well as Wiggo) has his podium place on the ropes if Armstrong or Kloden goes up the road. |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Okay...but when he's in his dotage would he want to say to himself, why did I attack I should have waited till the TT. His strength is against the clock he needs to take advantage of it. That's where he'll take this if that's his destiny. |
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| SlowRower |
Very smooth indeed, BF! | ||||||
| grrr |
If I read Slapshot correctly he's suggesting that an attack today would be unwise and it's hard to disagree with that.
He needs to stick with Bertie until the TT and not blow up before the TT has even started. Then he will know what the deficit is and whether it's worth going for it on Saturday. It may be a strategy that's more effective at staying on the podium than actually winning the tour, but Wiggins needs to keep his head at this stage and play to his strengths |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
+1 Based on the "weak" route, Wiggo may never get such a chance as this to actually win the whole thing - especially as next year he'll be marked out. If there are any signs of stress in Bert's defence, i'm sure he'll make use of the opportunity. |
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| SlowRower |
Agree about attacking today being a bad idea.
That's why my question related to a) keeping up today b) taking time in the ITT c) attacking up the Ventoux Apologies if this wasn't clear. I'm getting very excited at the vision of a line of Saxos and Astanas trailing in Wiggo's wake as he powers up the Ventoux. |
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| HuwB |
Karpets involved in a pile up!
What's up with Cuddles: Done a "Mayo" and left his form at the Dauphine? 
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| SlowRower |
Shag pile, I hope... |
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| mr shifter |
I agree, what they getting excited about as Batali's Marmotte (even without D'Huez) is a harder ride. Cormet de Roselend coming the other way and Bryuneel go's off road down a Crevas. Maybe the same race but Alex Zulle on a Solo gets something like 14 mins over the Roselend before he wins by 2 mins from Mig at La Plagne. (yer know that Mig that can't climb mountains, but wins with TT's) The last mountain the Columbiere is not a Galibier ! ! and it would have been a decent Tour if they had made a "Depart" on the other road and climbed the Col de I'Iseran.  
Be Lucky |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
would Ventoux suit Wiggins?
maybe not in the gradients, but in terms of keeping smooth, and riding at tempo.. i think he can nail everything BUT the harsh accelerations from Bert. the wind is always a factor up there too. The mountain don't take no prisoners... in case someone's faking it they will be found out on that climb. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Anyone got links to the coverage? Ideally French coverage. | ||||||
| Superbagneres |
Did anyone see Evans being interviewed briefly on the ITV highlights last night? He said there were various things he could not speak about for professional reasons - anyone have any idea as to what that is about? | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Try some of the links on CyclingForum\Cycling on TV & Internet - you might find something there. |
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| HuwB |
We have ourselves a wet decent. The rain is getting heavier.... | ||||||
| Slapshot 3 |
Doesn't look pleasant does it.... | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
Could mean he had yet to put his hand in the "Excuses" lucky dip bag back on the team bus.. so couldn't clarify what it was this time. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
No, didn't see it, but nice to see that he's learnt to be a bit more professional compared to his "outbursts" last year or maybe it just shows that he's able to cope with the press when he's not under pressure! |
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| Bartali |
As has rapidly become my cycling 'catch phrase' ... "What would Danilo do?" |
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| Slapshot 3 |
http://www.meteox.com/gmapstatic....amp;type=zoom&x=346&y=443
Looks like plenty of breaks in the rain as well. Mountains are setting them off....should I send it to Harmon |
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| kathy |
Menchov in the break today. I did think about FP'ing him today - assuming he was taking it a bit easy yesterday and isn't totally bushed. Would be nice for him to get a stage win to rescue his (and Rabo's) Tour. | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
Yes, this was predictable considering how crap Rabo have done at the TOur so far! |
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| smarauder68 |
Its looking like Evans is pouting or hurting...in the back of the peleton already...I'm guessing he drops out today. | ||||||
| Nolte |
my pick today is part of the 40 man break away or so Remi Pauriol | ||||||
| HuwB |
Nah...he's lying doggo. Will come across for a two up TT, with Dennis Menchov. 
Haw Haw, WTF Thor! |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Two fingers to Cav...
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| The Lemondheads |
= "My team is shit and either can't or doesn't want to help me." |
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| HuwB |
Ha! Astana take forever to change Contador's wheel, so up comes the Caisse car to tow him back!!!
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| smarauder68 |
Did they actually render assistance and tow him or did he just slipstream his way back? |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Will Contador make up his mind?
Jacket on, jacket off, jacket on, jacket off! Who can call this Tour boring - we've had the surprise that Wiggins has turned into a GC contender and now Hushovd turning into a climber! Is he trying to get the Green and KoM jerseys???? Think Evans might switch teams???? |
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| Bartali |
I think he's too far behind in the KoM competition.
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| billgull |
Cyril Dessel has abandoned. | ||||||
| SlowRower |
More defeatist thinking! |
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| kathy |
I think Thor is trying to get more points up on Cav than Cav lost the other day, so there can be no dispute. Thor is certainly the more all-round rider. I don't agree with Sean that the Green jersey is a sprinters' jersey. After all, didn't di Luca win the points jersey in the Giro? | ||||||
| The Lemondheads |
We used to refer to it as the most consistent rider's prize. It's gone to being the sprinters' jersey in the same way as the polka-dot jersey is now the 'mountain stage breakaway jersey' as the style of racing has changed. |
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| mr shifter |
I allways thought it was an All Rounders Jersey until Zabel got the juice to win so many times. So just remind me who won Het Volk. ????? (if I had called the new name you wouldn't have known) Kelly put Respect into the Green and he is rated one of the best All Rounders ever. |
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| Bartali |
Doesn't the Giro have a printers jersey AND the points jersey? | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Would that be for the best Rider's Report at the end of the day????
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| HuwB |
The Aussies forming their own breakaway group at the rear. 
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| Jackov |
With Cav's remarks about the green jersey being tainted thor wantsto make sure the winning margin is greater than the points cav lost from relegation. | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Sorry, Bart, I was joking! Hope that didn't come across as WUMing - apologies if it did. |
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| mr shifter |
Anybody remember the young Jalabert and Museeuw fighting for the Green Jersey and the ONCE team put the pressure on a Transitional Lumpy Stage to settle the matter. | ||||||
| cyclingtv |
is this old news?? versus said bruyneel will not be with astana next year.. | ||||||
| The Lemondheads |
worst kept secret. |
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| Jackov |
phewwwww!!!!!!!!
I wonder if other riders will have the same problem |
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| cyclingtv |
yes and more.. | ||||||
| mr shifter |
Certainly when Vinokourov said he wanted them out when he returns next month. |
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| Bartali |
Menchov down .... | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
can this guy stay upright? |
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| HuwB |
Menchov: The polar opposite to Paulo Savoldelli.
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| Slapshot 3 |
Menchov...doing his best to polish the French roads with his arse.... | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
lol he's down again... wtf | ||||||
| HuwB |
He's test diving Rabo's new kevlar kit! 
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Are you Alex Zulle in disguise? | ||||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
now a wheel change...
... denis the key to riding a bike is sitting on it and turn the pedals! |
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| Bartali |
Sastre - defending champ - fetching drinks!
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| Boogerd_Fan |
To whom? |
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| Bartali |
Don't know ... thats what the leTour newsfeed says ..
Evans now dropped! |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
Bart - thats crazy... i dont recall anyone else in his team is in a strong enough position to warrant that! | ||||||
| nzovu |
See: http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic3393-20.php |
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| HuwB |
Danilo Di Luca provisionally suspended
Earlier today, the UCI advised Italian rider Danilo Di Luca that he is provisionally suspended. The decision to provisionally suspend Mr Di Luca was made in response to a report from the WADA accredited laboratory in Paris indicating an Adverse Analytical Finding of Recombinant EPO (CERA) in blood samples collected from him at the Giro d’Italia on 20 May and 28 May 2009. These adverse findings were a direct result of a targeted test programme conducted on Mr Di Luca using information from his biological passport’s blood profile, previous test results and his race schedule. The provisional suspension of Mr Di Luca remains in force until a hearing panel convened by the Italian Cycling Federation determines whether he has indeed committed an anti-doping rule violation under Article 21 of the UCI Anti-Doping Rules. Mr Di Luca has the right to request and attend the analyses of both his B samples. Under the World Anti-Doping Code and the UCI Anti-Doping Rules, the UCI is unable to provide any additional information at this time. UCI Press Services |
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| Superbagneres |
Interesting you mention that, he has just tested positive for CERA from the Giro |
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| Bartali |
Sad if true SB ... and bloody stupid!
Van Hummel retires .... |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
Is anyone surprised? A great advertisement for - "let them get on with destroying their bodies - the racing was fantastic however." First big name to get poo'ed on by the passport system? did the UCI politically leave this until the final week of Tour to drop this turd on the Giro organizers? |
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| Jackov |
Any GC standings predictions before we get to these two final climbs?
Nothing against Wiggins, but I've been predicting to myself the entire tour that he wouldn't survive the mountains stages yet he has stayed with all the favorites. |
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