| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| kathy |
TdF stage 16 - Martigny-Bourg St. Maurice - 22nd July
Last 5 km 
What's the descent like? Nice or nasty? |
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| HuwB |
* Km 40.5 - Col du Grand-Saint-Bernard - 24.4 km climb to 6.2 % - Category H
* Km 128.0 - Col du Petit-Saint-Bernard - 22.6 km climb to 5.1 % - Category 1 Dunno.....Looking, now.... |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
two long drags... if they do a fast pace up petit, surely time gaps can be held on the descent? | ||||
| HuwB |
http://translate.google.com/trans...=es&tl=en&history_state0=
Once again, great for in detail analysis of all this weeks lumpy bit and the routes they should have ridden! Not hard, Kathy, according to this. 5-6% on average and good roads.... |
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| mayofan |
i quite like this stage, would be great in a tour with 4 or 5 genuine HC MTF's . Pity the rest is so useless. | ||||
| kathy |
Thanks, Huw. So it appears that they missed the opportunity to make the stage tougher by including the other steep climb on the way to the Petit St. Bernard. |
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| 70kmph |
At the summit of the Col du Petit-Saint-Bernard, the Tour passes back into France for 31 kilometers of descending to the finish in Bourg-Saint-Maurice. The roads are wide and smooth here, and the descent is not especially technical. Still, it will be a fast finish, as the course drops 1326 meters of elevation. The descending does not stop until the red kite. The final kilometer to the finish in Bourg-Saint-Maurice is flat. -Steephill | ||||
| kellyrocheearly |
that final km could be nice for Bradley to nick away and gain a few seconds. | ||||
| HuwB |
Using that link to highlight the different attitudes of the ASO and RCS.
Had the Giro orgnaisers designed this stage, with the minimum of change, it could have looked like this: 
A simple, effective example of how the Giro is better than the Tour. This would have made it extremely easy to break up the Astana train and turn the stage into a contender attack fest. As it is, they will probably sit back, relax and let a break go, awaiting tomorrow, which does have a really mean finish. |
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| Jackov |
Contador only the 3rd man to have yellow this tour. | ||||
| Nolte |
the agritubel rider in the break is No. 172 - Maxime Bouet, who is a far way down on the classement but came 30th on Sunday | ||||
| Nolte |
Pellizotti (LIQ), Kuschinsky (LIQ), Gomez Marchante (CTT), Haussler (CTT), Roulston (CTT), Van den Broeck (SIL), Voigt (SAX), Cancellara (SAX), ten Dam (RAB), Maaskant (GAR), Martinez (EUS), Verdugo (EUS), Casar (FDJ), Moncoutie (COF), Fedrigo (BBO), Rolland (BBO), Gutierrez (GCE), Bouet (AGR), Velits (MRM), Geschke (SKS)
lead is around 2 minutes |
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| 70kmph |
they cut to a commercial just as pelizotti attack... | ||||
| Nolte |
pellizotti is attacking the break and karepts is trying to follow | ||||
| HuwB |
Fecking interviews all the time, on both ES and French tv.
I think Cyril Dessel is already struggling off the back...which won't please Mr S. Cav already out the back door.... |
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| Bartali |
Just tapped in to the live feed.
Voigt and Cancellara in the break? Could be interesting. Are we actually to expect a Shrek attack fest? |
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| Superbagneres |
Let me know when Wiggy drops Andy Schleck - cheers. | ||||
| Jackov |
cervelo and saxo with no shortage of men in the break. | ||||
| Bartali |
Pelizotti's dropped Martinez | ||||
| Jackov |
Phil or Paul said Cancellara was one of the best descenders in the world. Is this true? | ||||
| Bartali |
He's pretty handy Jackov .... | ||||
| HuwB |
Don't like these parcours...we need a few ramps for a train derailment. 
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| redster73 |
BBC chap said an Astana truck stopped and searched on the Swiss/French border... | ||||
| kathy |
Don't know what's up with Sean this year. At the beginning of the Tour he was saying Cancellara could win it, today he's implying that Armstrong can still win it. | ||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Eurosport were interviewing Hushovd and told him that L'Equipe had voted him as the best descender in the peloton! Not best sprinter then? |
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| cyclingtv |
an italian leads the tour into italy.. will he lead them out?? | ||||
| Jackov |
What were the Astansa folks looking for on the border? |
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| HuwB |
Eurosport interview with Lance.
"Even when I was in my prime, I couldn't match what Alberto did at Verbier...." 
Ad break, usually = crash.... |
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| cyclingtv |
KOM points
pellizotti = 20 martinez = 0 ?? |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Grrr, that's what I hate about eurosport. Can you get the Belgium channel Sporza? They have the same coverage as ES but no ads! Although I don't think they really have any interviews interspersed with the race coverage. Of course, it's in Flemish...... |
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| nzovu |
What was Andy doing at the back there? Not typical of him... | ||||
| 70kmph |
Karpets flying 
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| HuwB |
I've got the original France 2, RTBF Sat and NED 1 on tv.
I've never been able to get Sporza, MJ. I wish! Best out there. How are you managing, that, or is it a net feed you are talking about? 
LOL. but curtains for Karpets, tomorrow, as they saying goes..... |
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| nzovu |
When I was a kid I always wondered how they made carpets fly. I thought maybe it was some magic formula or something. I guess I got it right
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
I'm in Holland at the moment so watching it live on TV - not sure about any live feeds on internet for Sporza. I can't get ITV4 Highlights over here, but at least I can watch it live - keeping in touch with anything I'm not sure about by going to cyclingnews live text. Can't say my Dutch is improving, but I am beginning to understand a bit more.
One thing of note about Sporza - can't find the thread where it was first mentioned about the spat between Bruyneel and Sporza - but I've seen them interviewing Astana riders and Bruyneel. They also had Dirk Demol in the studio. Oooh, and another thing - they have a table that the riders and other cycling greats sign when they come in for an interview. I've finally found out what happens to it after the Tour - they auction it off, bids are now at 56,000 euros!!!!!!!!!!!! And here's me thinking I'd just drop them a line and ask if I could have the table for a nominal fee after the Tour 
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| Boogerd_Fan |
Yes!!! |
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| CapeRoadie |
He's on crack. |
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| Jackov |
So any predictions regarding the GC today?
I predict gc snooze fest. I believe I've Fp'd Pellizotti today. That should jinx it now |
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| Jackov |
What are the cutoff rules? | ||||
| 70kmph |
ARTICLE 22 Permitted Finishing Times http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/COURSE/docs/reglement_fr_us.pdf |
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| cyclingtv |
from here on.. master plan.. attack early and often.. wear out the astana chase train..
as they'll not beat AC on those mtfs.. if you breakdown the train and you can beat AC..
sounds almost too easy..
jackov.. worried about the cav master.. 
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| nzovu |
There goes Andy with another flat. What is that, third day in a row?
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| The Lemondheads |
cut-off based on a % of the winner's time. For a mountain stage it's 6% for less than a 26km/h average 7% for a 26km/h average 8% for a 27km/h average 9% for a 28km/h average 10% for a 29km/h average 11% for a 30km/h average 12% for a 31km/h average 13% for a 32km/h average 14% for a 33km/h average 15% for a 34km/h average 16% for a 35km/h average or greater Based on the similar profile to Jausiers last year you'd expect right at the top of this range and a cut-off at around 42mins. The Cav group is now at about 11mins so they should be fine. |
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| The Lemondheads |
Sorry those percentages are out-of-date but it will probably still be about 14% today, or 40mins. |
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| kathy |
Assuming the figures in my Vélo magazine, that they will average about35kph, the stage will take about 4.5 hours. The coefficient for this is 14%, so the time allowed will be about 38 minutes.
I would worry more about tomorrow! |
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| Jackov |
I've got Thor for my points FP, that's why I was asking about the cutoff and eyeing cav.
Thanks for the info. |
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| Superbagneres |
I think your FP's safe jackov, the green jersey was decided by a bloke with white hair and specs last Saturday night. Incidentally, does anyone think any of the jerseys will change hands in the supposed grand finale of the last week? |
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| nzovu |
Go Saxo! | ||||
| nzovu |
Great racing at the front.
Saxo sorely missing Fabian at the head of the pack.... |
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| 70kmph |
Schleck attacks | ||||
| Jackov |
Wiggins the limpet mine. | ||||
| annesn |
Go Andy!! | ||||
| HuwB |
That's a bit more like it! Nibali will definitely attack on the downhill.
Where's the old guy gone?: .....
,,,Oooh he's attacked...and caught by Kirchen... Will all come back together.... Tomorrow will be another story.
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| Bartali |
Missing the action
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| annesn |
A little of false excitement there! | ||||
| Bartali |
Can the FP group stay away on this descent? | ||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Andy Shrek just attacked Yellow Jersey, but Contador, Wiggins and a few others went with him, then Armstrong dragged himself back up to the Contador group!!!!! Was that Armstrongs last Roar? Or has he got more in the tank.......????? | ||||
| annesn |
OMG Jens!! | ||||
| The Lemondheads |
Ouch! Jens Voigt down. | ||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Eeeech! Hope he's OK. | ||||
| 70kmph |
jens has crashed | ||||
| inputjoe |
Good counter by Armstrong, took the wind out of the sails of the Saxo attack. | ||||
| redster73 |
Ouch that looked bad for Voigt... | ||||
| annesn |
That looks really bad. | ||||
| Jackov |
Ligget says there was infighting on the saxo team during the climb? | ||||
| Bartali |
Infighting between who? The Shrek boys - hard to believe? | ||||
| annesn |
Any words on Jens anywhere? | ||||
| nzovu |
Noone seems to know. Argh, that was a horrible crash. And nearly got hit by a motorbike too.
Andy attacked a couple of times at the beginning of the downhill, but the cameras didn't show it properly. What a downer for Saxo, it started so well... |
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| Jackov |
Now that is what I call a proper celebration over the line. No premeditated gestures, just sheer excitement. | ||||
| nzovu |
Nice to see Astarloza win 
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| Boogerd_Fan |
Evans missed the boat again today.
good stage it seems, the whittling down continues tomorrow. |
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| Hommedesbois |
Jens Voigt was heli'd to hospital. He hadn't lost consciousness but nothing else known. Abandoned obviously. | ||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
Yeah, that and all the other riders who made it back. You are Paul Sherwen and I claim my five pounds. |
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| Bartali |
Good day for liqigas. Pelizotti stamps his authority on the KoM (which now seems to have been his sole goal this TdF) and another good ride from 24 year old Nibs.
Difficult to have a view having not seen the racing, but from what I've read today I suspect that Sastre was quite content to lose some time to give him some freedom on Saturday? |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Redant "Hendick" said on ES that the plan was for a few Lotto guys to attack at the start and then for Evans to win the stage - guess that plan went wrong then? What is it with Evans? Is his head squint or is it his helmet? |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
Didn't sastre finish in the same grp as Bert by the end?
Evans was the guy losing bucket of time today. |
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| Jackov |
Phil and Paul kept saying they thought Sastre was in Evans' group, but the Le Tour is showing him with Contador. | ||||
| SlowRower |
Clearly Sastre has read my suggestion from yesterday, and is manufacturing an opportunity for a gung ho attack on Saturday! I'll get my coat now, don't worry...
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| HuwB |
Didn't come back. waited for news on Jens. Looked sickening.
Not surprised he's been heli'd to hospital. A bad day for Saxo, the will sorely miss the big German engine. Not as bad as Cuddles Evans, though. Both he and Menchov have been total shit, but Menchov has a Giro to add to his GT palmares, while Evans has wind. Nice to see Kathy's orange men get a win! "Black helmet" does a passable impression of the bad old days. "The Freiburg Phantom" ghosting about, sucking the collective group wheel. Bradders looks muy impressive, as does Vince Nibs. Tomorrow is "High Noon".
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| nzovu |
Sastre was with Contador. He came back (again-again) on the way down.
Menchov is a laugh. Has the man no pride? 1. ASTARLOZA Mikel 61 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 4h 14' 20" 2. CASAR Sandy 101 FRANCAISE DES JEUX 4h 14' 26" + 00' 06" 3. FEDRIGO Pierrick 144 BBOX BOUYGUES TELECOM 4h 14' 26" + 00' 06" 4. ROCHE Nicolas 89 AG2R LA MONDIALE 4h 14' 26" + 00' 06" 5. VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen 17 SILENCE - LOTTO 4h 14' 26" + 00' 06" 6. MOINARD Amaël 128 COFIDIS LE CREDIT EN LIGNE 4h 14' 26" + 00' 06" 7. PELLIZOTTI Franco 91 LIQUIGAS 4h 14' 31" + 00' 11" 8. GOUBERT Stephane 85 AG2R LA MONDIALE 4h 14' 31" + 00' 11" 9. MOREAU Christophe 171 AGRITUBEL 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 10. CONTADOR Alberto 21 ASTANA 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 11. NIBALI Vincenzo 95 LIQUIGAS 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 12. ARMSTRONG Lance 22 ASTANA 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 13. WIGGINS Bradley 58 GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 14. KLÖDEN Andréas 23 ASTANA 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 15. URAN Rigoberto 119 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 16. VANDE VELDE Christian 51 GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 17. LE MEVEL Christophe 106 FRANCAISE DES JEUX 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 18. KREUZIGER Roman 93 LIQUIGAS 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 19. SCHLECK Andy 31 TEAM SAXO BANK 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 20. SCHLECK Frank 36 TEAM SAXO BANK 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 21. KIRCHEN Kim 75 TEAM COLUMBIA - HTC 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 22. LEFEVRE Laurent 146 BBOX BOUYGUES TELECOM 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 23. TROFIMOV Yury 149 BBOX BOUYGUES TELECOM 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 24. SASTRE Carlos 1 CERVELO TEST TEAM 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 25. KARPETS Vladimir 161 TEAM KATUSHA 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 26. ANTON Igor 62 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 4h 15' 19" + 00' 59" 27. ZABRISKIE David 59 GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 4h 15' 34" + 01' 14" 28. TEN DAM Laurens 49 RABOBANK 4h 17' 36" + 03' 16" 29. GOMEZ MARCHANTE Jose Angel 3 CERVELO TEST TEAM 4h 17' 36" + 03' 16" 30. PAURIOL Rémi 129 COFIDIS LE CREDIT EN LIGNE 4h 18' 15" + 03' 55" 85. MENCHOV Denis 41 RABOBANK 4h 31' 00" + 16' 40" |
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| Bartali |
Seems to be the case ... news feeds said he was with Evans at one stage. Oh well ... that bright idea went out the window ... |
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| Nolte |
sastre was 24th in the same time as the other contenders evans lost about 3 minutes |
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| 70kmph |
Menchov 16' 40
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Menchov has been out the back since stage 1- injury? illness? either way this has been a washout and he would be better off quitting.
I do wonder if he was more badly injured in his fall in the Giro than announced because post race he was limping very very heavily and as far as I recall I don't think he raced at all between the Giro and Tour. It may well be that like Rominger and various others he is just not quite good enough to win a TDF. That said at the end of his career 2 Vueltas, a Giro, a TDF Podium and a White Jersey is not a bad record to have. On the subject of big losers - surely the biggest loser was Tony 'no Gypsies' Martin who came in with Menchov, and slips from 8th to 34th. |
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| Superbagneres |
It has all the makings of an episode of Scooby-Doo when at the end of the Tour they rip off Wiggins' mask and find Denis Menchov underneath, and vice versa. | ||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
After losing time in the first week, it looks like MEnchov gave up on GC (even for another top 10)... and whats to say he wanted another 8th or 6th... he's won the Giro... and its very hard to do both competitively. Otherwise we'd be seeing Di Luca dancing all over these pussywhipped climbers. | ||||
| mr shifter |
No, No, Think Menchov. ?????????? Sorry I havn't enough question marks for that one. ! |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
From cyclingnews:
Voigt in hospital after horrific crash Riis says German seriously injured Jens Voigt (Team Saxo Bank) was taken to hospital after his crash in the 16th stage of the Tour de France. While descending the Col du Petit-Saint-Bernard, the German's front wheel slipped away and he went down on his shoulder and head, sliding several metres along the road. The race doctor who attended to him at the scene said that Voigt briefly lost consciousness. "He is seriously injured, but conscious. He was able to move," said a visibly shaken team manager Bjarne Riis to the German press agency dpa. A motorcycle carrying a photographer narrowly avoided hitting the fallen 37-year-old. "I saw him laying there with closed eyes and blood on his face," the driver said, adding that he had suspected the worst. Voigt's fellow German Linus Gerdemann of Team Milram said "When you see a crash like that, nothing else much matters. It gives you goose bumps." Voigt was part of the race-long break which went clear in the opening kilometres in advance of the Col du Grand-Saint-Bernard. Voigt was dropped on the day's second climb, the Col du Petit-Saint-Bernard, but remained with the yellow jersey group containing the Schleck brothers over its summit before crashing on the descent. |
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| annesn |
Thx MJ. I DO wish him well with all my heart. Jens is one of the model players in the peloton. I have so much respect for him. Reading the news gave me goose bumps.
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| 70kmph |
+1 Get well Jens | ||||
| HuwB |
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?EventId=88232141
Be warned, not nice. |
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| annesn |
I hope the blood on his face was from road rash, not from inside. This is very very worrysome and heart wrenching.
What the hell happened? Paul and phil kept saying that there must be something on the road. It looked so sudden and there seemed nothing Jens could have done to avoid it. |
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| levi |
all we can hope his injuries are not to serious and he gets well soon | ||||
| redster73 |
Looked to me like he hit a slight bump unexpectedly and lost control. It brings it back home how dangerous this bike racing lark can be...here's hoping he recovers well. | ||||
| annesn |
Read from various comments from a youtube clip, it seemed that Jen's handle bar or some part of his front steering wheel snapped off. He is suspected to have broken his collarbone and maybe head injury. This looked almost as bad as Beloki's fall.
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| nzovu |
DS Andersen says to TV this evening that things are looking better now for Jens, and that he seems to have "got off lightly" considering the circumstances. | ||||
| kathy |
Very pleased to hear it if that's the case. |
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| nzovu |
Yes !
From the saxo website: Jens Voigt Is OK Under The Circumstances [21.07 21:56] An examination at the University hospital in Grenoble this evening has initially given positive reports on Jens Voigt's health after the nasty crash during today's stage of Tour de France. He has incurred a fracture of the right cheekbone and a concussion. For now he is staying at the hospital for further observation. Jens has sent this greeting to the team: "I think I was very lucky not getting severely hurt from today's crash. Now I hope that you can focus on the race and I wish you all good luck with the hard stage tomorrow”. http://www.team-saxobank.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=2434 |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Chapeau Jens - what a hero! | ||||
| Boogerd_Fan |
He is very lucky. Could've been so much worse. | ||||