| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| kathy |
TdF stage 10, Limoges - Issoudun - Bastille Day
They usually have a more exciting looking profile for Bastille Day, don't they? |
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| KarenP |
Yeah, usually bigger bumps, as I recall. I look forward to an exciting sprint finish: Cav vs. Thor. | ||||||
| Hommedesbois |
Thunderstorm here now and tomorrow morning, showers later. The early stuff up to Gueret is a bit up and down and I think a lot of the stage is harder than it looks, a lot like the Morvan stage 2 years ago and will be wet.
Typical bank holiday! |
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| HuwB |
The best the region can offer. 4 of the next 5 stgaes are like this, or flater.
I see Carlos Sastre has waded into the course criticism debate. He basically called stage 9, pointless. Things.......can only get.......worse. The 'Tour de France Special Siesta' edition! 
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| Bartali |
What's the source for that Huw? |
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| Biosphere |
So Kit doesn't think we're all in need of medication and therapy, VanDeVelde wasn't impressed either Sunday’s third day in the Pyrenees was similar to Saturday’s second, with no shake-up of the overall classification, despite the route featuring some major climbs. While the Col du Tourmalet has traditionally been one of the Tour’s battlegrounds, on Sunday’s tenth stage it was inconsequential – apart from to give the riders sore legs. With a run-in of 70km to the finish, the climb was effectively neutralised – there was little point in a climber such as Andy Schleck (Saxo Bank) launching an attack, and giving the thousands of fans the spectacle they craved. It begged the question: what was the point? Christian Vande Velde (Garmin-Slipstream), who maintained his eighth place overall, seemed to agree. "A 25mph average for a stage that included the Tourmalet?" he said. "It’s weird. "You still suffer up the Tourmalet," he added, "but it was a strange day, very strange." As for the organisers’ motives in featuring such classic climbs so far from the finish, Vande Velde speculated: "I think they wanted to get in these climbs without making it a pure climbers’ race, because they’ve made the third week so heavy. I think they feel obliged to do these Pyrenean stages, to put in the mountains but with no mountain top finish… but it is weird." http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tourmalet-fails-to-shake-gc |
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| cyclingtv |
let's hope it's a radio free stage.. could bring real excitement.. hopefully
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| Jackov |
The "excitment" will be ag2r trying to get columbia in front as early as possible to reel in the break. |
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| cyclingtv |
otherwise could make watching tomorrows stage as exciting as watching paint dry.. if even one rider hits the deck the DS's will be crying foul as due to lack of radios 
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| HuwB |
Sorry for the late reply, Bart. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/130...stre-bemoans-limited-chances.html He's not wrong, either. 4 of the next 5 stages for the sprinters, with only the solitary Vosges stage to break the mould. Maybe the less than settled weather can liven things up? |
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| smarauder68 |
Looks like a great day for someone like Voigt or Popovych to try and get in a break and power away from his fellow escapees in the final 20km. | ||||||
| HuwB |
Check this out, for really detailed route analysis of this week's racing.
http://translate.google.com/trans...=es&tl=en&history_state0= |
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| kit |
No Biosphere, just a little positive outlook for the world and smiles. Count the laugh lines, not the wrinkles and pout lines. Cheers! 
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| Fontfroide |
Nice one, I didn't realise that there was that little up at the end of stage 11. Makes it slightly more likely that Cav might get beaten by Freire or Hushovd. |
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| kit |
Ha ha! The stage with no radios started with a breakaway of 4 who were stopped at a level crossing by an unexpected train enroute. You could see the anxiety of the riders as they keep looking behind their shoulders for any chasers. Meantime, the peloton had no idea they were gaining on the breakaways.
Bring it on! |
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| HuwB |
I wonder what upbeat spin Kit can put on this?
38kms in the first hour and the break only 2 and a half minutes up the road....... 
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| kit |
No spin Huw. Just the circumstances of the stage. With no radios, even in the early kms of the day, breaking away is the priority if one wants a chance to win. There are three French in the breakaway + Ignatiev. Surely, more breaks will come specially from the French. A sprint finish? I doubt it. ....It's a breakaway who will win the stage.
PS, don't be so smug Huw. You forget that you see the time difference on your TV, but the riders don't. That should at least bust the expectations on this stage as regards rider tactics and DS cues. Today, the best rider or riders win! |
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| 70kmph |
Co-incidently Bastille Day
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| HuwB |
Since when has being right equated to being smug? It's a dull edition with the dullest parcours. 4 of the next five days, rolling gently into Alsace, for another downhill finish. |
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| kit |
Crash! Kurt Aversen... | ||||||
| HuwB |
Kurt is hurt!
Something about the heli's being too low and blowing the riders about. 
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| kit |
LOL! So why bother to watch? Got nothing else to do? The world beckons... Cheers! |
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| HuwB |
You are right. I do have something better to do. I'll leave you to talk to yourself....... |
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| Bartali |
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| mayofan |
kit: the riders still know the time gaps. | ||||||
| kit |
I know, but not instantly as when they have the radios. |
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| cyclingtv |
damn that place is crawling with snails..
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| kit |
Okay Huw, agree it's going to be a dull race and it's because the riders are in protest about today's ban on race radios. This morning, 14 teams didn't want to start, but finally did. However, they agreed they'll make the race as dull and boring as can be, ride slowly, to protest the absence of radios.
The breaks went away though, but will be reined in soon. Everyone will just pedal along and end the race in a bunch sprint. Source? France 2 commentary interview with one of the DSes. I'm outta here and be back when they do the bunch sprint... The world beckons.... |
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| CapeRoadie |
I think we almost witnessed the death of escargot! | ||||||
| kit |
Ignatiev has been told to fall back... | ||||||
| cyclingtv |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
I was wondering how they managed to communicate to him - maybe Katusha are using radios and willing to risk a fine or being kicked out of the Tour. |
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| Spoo |
If thats the case, thats pathetic! They just can't give up total control for a day! They survived for years without them, why not give it a shot? It seems to have made things more interesting in the french races. I can understand why Astana and Saxo would be arsey about it but why the smaller teams. Surely they'd see this as an opportunity?!? |
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| kit |
There's another one planned on the 13th - no radio stage. Thierry Adams saying, too bad for the spectators....
Indeed! 
Some DSes are proposing 2 earphones per team should be allowed. Said it was for safety, security and emergency purposes. |
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| kit |
I think it was through one of the cars or bikes.
Jalabert saying it's very discouraging for the break because they must not exert their maximum but have to maintain a speed for the sake of the protest and the peloton. |
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| cyclingtv |
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| kit |
Team cars are telling the break, no need to attack. Just keep going... | ||||||
| cyclingtv |
so pretty much just puppets on a string.. sad that is.. feck the DS's.. assholes..
lance didn't win seven tours as his DS did the thinking.. he and his mates were just the grunts following orders.. |
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| berck |
I noticed this on Cycling news' coverage...
16:44 CEST Whichever Columbia rider is leading the peloton is wearing black socks. We have to think about what we think of this. |
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| cyclingtv |
no commercials.. more paul than phil..
http://www.justin.tv/oleolep2p7/popout |
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| kit |
I suppose they were given the signal to really race now? The speed has increased. | ||||||
| SlowRower |
Where will this outrage end? 
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| SlowRower |
So just out of interest, who did with the TDF for those 7 years? You'll need to go along way down the field in some years to find a rider not benefitting from team radios! I'll bet they said the same about derailleurs and team cars when they were introduced. The traditionalists would be complaining that TDF wins only counted if the rider carried all their spares, gear changes involved changing the wheel to use the different sized cog on the other side with at least one use of the local handyman's blowtorch to repair a broken frame.
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| cyclingtv |
my point is we are seeing how much the DS's dictate the results.. not a slam against lance.. as we know most DS's are/were cheats.. |
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| SlowRower |
Indeed. I always wonder what Ullrich would have done as leader of USPS. Train more for a start, I'd guess! |
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| kit |
Cavendish! | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
cyclingnews said that the organisers will concede to allow radios on stage 13 following all the protests about today. Enjoy watching the Tour kit. It really is a spectacle regardless of the parcours spoiling what should be a really exciting Tour - I blame the riders/DS's for not attacking and making something of this Tour, but by the same token, they are so aware of the risks on the routes that I think too many are being too cautious. Oh, I'm babbling - one of those days. Anyhoo, enjoy! |
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| bianchigirl |
What a pathetic bunch of wankers - little babies who all need their safety blankets and can't ride without their ickle wickle earpiecey weeceys.
There was a real opportunity for riders to try something different, have some freedom and what do they do - take orders from their DSes and dick around like a bunch of spoiled primadonnas. |
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| Spoo |
and its finally over!!
Cav takes it, massively underwhelmed, shame the frenchmen couldn't hold on. Glad Ignatiev got nothing though, you can argue about wheelsucking being a legitimate tactic all you want but you have to do some work! |
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| cyclingtv |
today's upside.. if they had had radios we wouldn't have seen a flying karpet..
downside.. that really was an all day phony baloney break.. until the last 5km
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| Hommedesbois |
Post-race interview with Vaugrenard was interesting....if you missed it tant pis! | ||||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
What a load of fucking rubbish. | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Don't hold back MJM, say what you think........
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| bianchigirl |
What did Vaugrenard have to say - watching the house TV that doesn't have the French satellite
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| Hommedesbois |
En bref ... "Marc Madiot est contre les oreilliers, je suis contre aussi. Chaque jour nous faisons la bagarre, nous n'avons pas besoin. Il y a des coureurs et équipes qui ne savent pas comment faire leur travail". Not verbatim, he said a bit more but some of you will understand. No doubt Fontfroide and Kit will be along shortly to correct me
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| Superbagneres |
Cav has now won the crappest stage of the Giro and the crappest stage of the Tour in the same year. | ||||||
| Nolte |
so what was that? 2 consecutive rest days?
that's as bad as the 2000 Vuelta which had a rest day followed by racing day followed by a rest day |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Maybe they were trying to confuse Garmin as Miller and Wiggins often wear black socks and in the melly (sp?) of the sprint they might have hope Garmin would mistakenly think they were leading out Farrar.....
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| bianchigirl |
I agree with Vaugrenard | ||||||
| SAP |
Versus today showed a piece with Millar showing off his bike shoes and the special Union Jack on the back (heel), He stated that Armstrong took the piss out of his special shoes and also his black socks, saying Armstrong acutally likes them.
I don't officially speak Brit, put I think I know what 'took the piss out of ' means.... |
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| Nolte |
it was Nikolai Trussov who crashed for Katusha in the last 3km | ||||||
| Fontfroide |
I noticed in l'Equipe this morning that instead of wearing an Astana hat for the press conference,a s one would expect, Contador wore a white hat with a logo of a hand doing the smoking gun gesture. The picture is on the site of the paper, in a video clip, if you have not seen it.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/HOME_Tour-de-France-2009.html Just thought I would mention that. I leave it to you all to interpret. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
However, I'm not too sure but the coverage of his interview on ITV4 looked as if he was wearing a LiveStrong tee shirt, but haven't seen a decent enough photo to confirm it. | ||||||
| Fontfroide |
Sorry, can't help. Missed it. When Marc Madiot's name gets mentioned my ears suddenly have earplugs. He is the kind of guy who should be on this forum. Madiot, I mean. |
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| Biosphere |
So if Wiggins and others were gapped as a consequence of the Katusha rider going down (which is what the BBC is claiming), why don't they get the same time as Cavendish?
What am I missing - assuming the BBC is accurate ?
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| SlowRower |
Wiggo got gapped simply as a result of a split as the peleton went over the line, somewhat spread out after the sprint. It didn't look to be anything to do with the crash. | ||||||
| Biosphere |
Cyclingnews is taking the same line as the BBC, but I'm not convinced. |
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| bianchigirl |
Apparently Astana had to be threatened with not being allowed to start the stage unless they took the earpieces out.
Hopefully they'll take that attitude again - and threaten heavy time penalties for those who don't race. Personally I'm sick to death of Bruyneel and Armstrong dictating how cycling should be practiced - first the Giro protest and now this. They want to get out of the playground, grow up and start acting like professionals - as cyclismag says, teams have been excluded for sullying the image of the race yet today Bruyneel's ringleading did a great dela of harm to what could have been an interesting experiment. |
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| Fontfroide |
The French commentators, as I recall, thought it was just a gap. Sloppy riding by some rider, likely one of the first several in the second group. could have happened easily on any of the corners they had to go around at the finish, of which there were several. Gaps often happen purely by chance, but regularly, on tight corners at high speeds. Witness Grand Motte stage. No one MADE that gap, it just happened by one careless rider taking a corner too wide, or braking too much or just losing the wheel. | ||||||
| Hommedesbois |
He clearly knows fuck-all about cycling or the TdF and obviously has nothing constructive to say.
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| Biosphere |
Well it wasn't just the Blue Train protesting. As for dictating how cycling should be practised - whatever about getting MJM up on stage, I'd pay good money to see you on an open mic night
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| SlowRower |
Just how "apparent" was Astana's near exclusion, one wonders?
Anyway, all may not be lost. David Millar was extoling the virtues of radio free riding on ITV4 after today's stage. He claimed it had been popular with the riders. |
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| Hommedesbois |
Can you imagine 5 or 6 hours in the heat with the Hog or - who is the QS DS? Lefèbvre? bellowing in your left ear while wankers in cow horns are bellowing in the other while running alongside up a mountain? In foreign languages!
Grammatically bollocks but I'm trying to say I'm sure the majority of riders would prefer to be allowed to do the job within their capabilities without being treated like frontline soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq. I would pull mine out and throw it but that is probably why I haven't worked for a few years! |
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| SlowRower |
Other than the heat, this is just like a SlowRower family holiday. Except instead of a DS I have a wife and two daughters (and High School Musical CDs). These guys don't know they're born!! |
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| Hommedesbois |
Just stop and let them out!
This is (was) the day of liberté, egalité etc. I value the liberty quite a lot! High School Musical? Take it off! Put on Tom Waits! |
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| behemoth |
Velonews had some quotes from riders and DSs about the ban.
http://tour-de-france.velonews.co...3/opposition-to-radio-ban-growing From Jens: You could also say let’s have two days without helmets, just to make it interesting, or for two days let’s cut the cables on the brakes.
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| berck |
He said the following things after the stage today Cycling News article
"I wasn’t worried about the lack of communication with the team cars. We just took it a bit easier. Really, honestly, the racing is a lot harder with a director yelling in your ear. Without radios everyone seemed to be a lot mellower and we had a time to talk. It was one of the best Tour de France stages I’ve ever raced," "I’m not sure about Friday, as it’s a much harder stage. It’s a nice experiment but let's leave it like that." "The racing was far less exciting, we were slower and for the spectators that’s less fun. The riders were scared to make a mistake so they ended up doing nothing." |
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| kit |
Come now, Fontfroide, keep him out of this forum. We wouldn't like a pain in the *rse ruining your day now do we?
Yes Hmdbois, it's just as you said. In fact I think many French riders were disappointed yesterday but had to do as the DSes ordered. |
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| KarenP |
Well today those 15 seconds have been voided by the race jury, according to Cycling News. Good news for Wiggins and Leipheimer. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
I guess it can only be revenge for the hours you've made them watch Lance DVD's. Does your wife not mind that you have a three-way relationship, you, her and Lance? |
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| mr shifter |
Tonight the official TDF GC list shows Wiggins back in 5th place so I went back to find they all finished @ the same time. |
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| Biosphere |
I think you're trying to have it both ways. We're shouldn't give our honest reaction about the race and should just be accepting and if not do something else more positive with our lives cos apparently ASO don't owe us anything. Following that approach I'm surprised that you bother with the GT forum - it is what it is and if you don't like it stop lecturing us. To paraphrase one of your points - Did you see me put up a notice asking for suggestions on how I might improve my postings? To compound that, your more interested in telling us how to lead our lives than discussing the cycling. I don't really care about whether it's Jesus, happy pills or the morning sunrise that you get off on, how good your CV is, helping you validate the outlook on life that you've chosen by adopting it too, but I'd happily read posts about the race that did more than say how lovely it all was. Cheers
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| kit |
Right. I'll get off the whole fecking forum. Thank you very much.
Bye! |
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| Biosphere |
Hey, don't frown! I'd much rather you stay and discuss the cycling, but if you don't change your mind, then good luck for tomorrow. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Don't be like that Kit, I enjoy your posts and your enthusiasm. Don't let a few detracters (jeez, spelling) put you off. |
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| Biosphere |
Well for what my opinion is worth, I think Kit has been doing a lot of detracting towards other posters. Others and I were just detracting the course design before being lectured. |
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| HuwB |
I sensed that this was close, the other day, after our little spat. So, I made the decision not to post responses on the Tour threads, until I found something positive to comment upon, not wishing to dampen Kit's enthusiasm, still further. Yesterday, changed little, hence, my silence and the fact that I am late, with my piece, here. For what it is now worth, I continue to see these arrivals/departures as a bye-product of this being a small community; someone will always feel isolated by opinion. IMO, it's down to those who may share in the minority view, to post up in support, before things reach a critical point. Otherwise, it's too little, too late. I hope Kit will overcome his "unnatural" depression, continue to enjoy this Tour and return to keep us more upbeat about things. |
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| SlowRower |
Please stay, Kit. | ||||||
| kathy |
I think some people take this forum too seriously. It's only a bit of fun, after all, and people shouldn't get too het-up about it. If it helps, Kit, I'm enjoying the tour as well, although the last couple of days have been a bit of a trial, but then I always enjoy the Tour, as I do most bike races. | ||||||
| Jackov |
I'm enjoying the tour, but it is the dullest in my uber long memory (back to 2001).
I'm even following the points competition, now THAT is desperate. |
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| berck |
Good advice and observations Kathy. I agree! |
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| Fontfroide |
I should really weigh in here. My wife asked me to me forums we were both on (once) because she got depressed and upset by how people replied to me and treated me. It should be clear that I was sometimes blunt and critical on the forums, acted like a know it all and was slightly patronising to some (they said). That was because I thought they were ignorant jerks. I didn't take most of it too seriously, but quit the forum so my wife could stay on it peacefully. She would not even read this forum though, there is such sloppy and poor language on it, and such vituperation. Especailly stuff MJM writes is shameful, lacks respect and an insult to all who read. Still, I figure you gotta stick with it. My advice to Kit on reading some of the stuff that upsets him is to never reply to it. Never. It is just a forum, you are not obligated to reply to nasty posts.
As far as the Tour goes, I have mixed feelings, but in general, as always, I love it. I refocussed on "the spectacle" bit for a few days and then I liked it better. The GC just has not budged very much. So as far as racing goes, the big guys are not racing and that is seriously annoying. However, we are unlikely to lose interst, nor are we likely to think we know who will win, until late afternoon on the top of Ventoux. They made it that way. I missed a lot of the last three stages, doing errands and such. This is a shame since I wanted to see what the coutnryside was like. But racing wise, nothing much happened, it was slightly boring. Except the stage win itself. As for Kit, each to their own. One can be very upset about the posts on this forum, very upset. Some of you who do the posting don't seem to realise that. Or if you do, you don't care. I think it is a shame that we can't more gently and just tolerate some of the different views. Sometimes I wish we could "impose" a one hour delay on all replies that anyone thinks might upset someone. Now I leave myself open to various responses. NO, I don't think that everyone should be happy and not upset. I have nothing against upsetting people. I just think you should know you are doing so and go ahead anyway. Then you are at least responsible for your upsetting posts. Anyway I am going to continue to enjoy the Tour, even the route, maybe the racing, and hope that Kit is silently somewhere doing the same. And if someone calls me a Tour fanboy, besides being happy to be thought a boy, I will not argue. Even though I relaly don't know what a fanboy is, and how it different from a fan or a fanatic. I consider myself a serious Tour fanatic. Fanboy seems bit too casual, disrespectful and superficial for me. Allez Kit. But it is hard to stay, takes effort. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Well said ff. | ||||||
| Bartali |
FF - you are a shameless Tour fanatic ... and there is nothing wrong with that. For you it is a 'spectacle', the 'greatest race on earth', the countryside, colours, poetry in motion etc - and you are caught up in the magic of it all. I think every one respects that.
You are wise enough however, to spot a bad parcours when you see it! You can see that the race is designed around the penultimate day even if it means 'wasting' the pyrenees and nullifying all GC action until Verbier. Its a shame that you find some of the posts 'offensive' - but I can understand your perspective. But, please don't fall in to the trap that it is the bad language alone that causes some of the rifts on these boards. Kit (and I'm sorry he has left us) seemed intent on 'winding people up'. IMO, to argue that this TdF has a good parcours and that people shouldn't complain is designed for one thing only - to get a reaction. In fact he reveled in having a contrary view to most of the posters here. If he has gone, I wish him well. But ultimately he must decide whether he want's a forum full of questioning (maybe cynical) enthusiasts or a forum full of people who swallow the mainstream media news feeds in a totally unquestioning way. His choice .. just like the rest of us. |
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| Biosphere |
But nothing's changed 
You didn't need to weigh in on this one, but since you're here, after a day of reflection I said nothing to Kit that I wouldn't say again and if he gets upset by it then so be it. Everyone is entitled to be as dismissive of my opinions as they want. As for fecking right off the forum, well that's a big over reaction IMO. It wasn't just the Tour parcours either. Yesterday Kit suggested that we just accept that McQuaid is president of the UCI for another four years and just go with the flow 
What wrong with discussing it. This is a forum for that very purpose. |
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| Fontfroide |
Good post. I could not agree more. It is a genuine shame that I am the kind of person who is a little bit too sensitive, even to posts on a list. Mostly they don't upset me, so I am not deeply troubled. And of course fanatics like me are never going to change the way they see the Tour. Well, maybe not. (wink) I do get annoyed when there is not enough racing though. It is not so much a bad design for me. It is that it is designed to make sure it all happens at the end. I prefer a Tour that changes, where there is racing uncertainty in the GC for many days. There will be uncertainty, but packed into a few days. Maybe starting Sunday. They designed according to their objectives. It worked. I just don't like their objectives. As for Kit, when people leave they sometimes come back. Sometimes they don't. It IS just a forum. If people don't like it they can start another or do something better with their time. It really is no big deal. |
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