| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| headwind |
Stage 9, Sunday 12 July
the pyrenean snoozefest rolls on |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Re: Stage 9, Sunday 12 July
pointless waste of two great mountains |
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| Bartali |
Yeap - a complete fucking waste! | ||||
| mayofan |
would the organisers have to neutralise the last 90km if fans covered it in diesel and thumbtacks? | ||||
| headwind |
ok, that was good mayo! | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
Anyone FP'd Cav tomorrow....... | ||||
| HuwB |
This stage typifies how the Tour has become just too big.
They have to have finishes at huge MTs, or in a sizeable and afluent town. Result? Crap parcours constructed from excellent terrain. Just ridiculous. |
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| Bartali |
But they could easily finish at La Mongie ... or go around the other way and over the top and a 3km descent to La Mongie.
I think they have a crap parcours because they (a) want it that way; or/and (2) they are greedy and follow the money. |
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| headwind |
This looks like a parcours perfectly designed for Astana. Long time trials before the mountains...perfect for this boring defensive riding by astana. they can do this shit all the way to paris. how about a couple days on the stones thrown in for some fun? |
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| HuwB |
Of course they could, but probably Tarbes came up with more readies and La Mongie is stoney broke after coughing up twice, in two years... |
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| Element12 |
Basically a TdF with only one HC ended stage. Andorre doesn't count. I don't care who calls it an HC if you have 10 riders gliding in together it's a 1, not an HC.
So that leaves only three real stages in the whole three weeks. Stage 4: Team Time Trial. Stage 18: Individual Time Trial. Stage 20: Ventoux. Amazing how much influence a TTT has on the whole TdF when the rest of the stages are basically nullified by team tactics. Sad sad sad sad. Basically that's why the Giro and the Vuelta are always more exciting races. The TdF has become a dull shadow of itself. |
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| headwind |
that pretty much, and sadly, covers it. |
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| bianchigirl |
Mind you, the Giro essentially came down to the TT and once that was over it was a question of Menchov having to do nothing more than follow Di Luca around a bit. Falling off in the last TT was nice and all but really the race was over and done after that one stage. | ||||
| KarenP |
LOL! |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Sorry but that is bullshit. Did you actually watch the Giro at all? I know that your dislike of Menchov means that you can never actually give him credit. But for fucks sake. It was boring in your eyes because the rider you wanted to win did not win. I bet if it had been Moreau riding like Menchov you wouldn't have found it boring and dull. It would have been a display of grit, determination, and epic resolve like the French riders of yore. As it was it was a Russian with a big nose and hence a display of boring souless wheelsucking. Would you have preferred it if we'd had a re-run of 2006 where a 'climber' wins by 10 minutes? Wow, loads of fucking action and suspense there. The only thing anyone remembers from that race is Voigt patting Garate on the back. I love how you dismiss defending against multiple attacks over several stages as 'following Di Luca around a bit'. If you want to blame anyone for making the Giro so 'boring' then blame your hero Di Luca - he couldn't even beat up an isolated wheelsucker like Menchov despite having multiple mountain stages to do it in. Menchov had a lead of 34 seconds after the TT - not 3 minutes and in 8 stages your boy Di Luca could only claw back 14 seconds. Tell me did you actually watch stage 19, 17, or 16? DDL attacked and Menchov responded. Not a one off attack like Evans yesterday, not a dance on the pedals 500 metres from the line like Dertie but attacks all the way up Blockaus, Petrino and Vesuvius. If you didn't find the attacks and Menchov defending against a superior climber exciting and interesting then I really do wonder what you do find 'exciting'? I think you should maybe stick to DVD's and Youtube highlights because that is the only way you'll ever get the racing you desire. ##### A race is what the riders make of it - and compared to this TDF, the Giro was an epic. But it might change - it depends on the riders and the DSs. If they aren't prepare to challenge the Astana train then they have only themselves to blame for the race being boring. The fact of the matter is that if you want people to blame then blame the likes of Riis for piss poor tactics, blame the riders for showing no imagination in their attacks. DDL might be as dirty as they come but at least he was willing to try something different (ie attacking on descents and on cat 3's). When riders are trying something different ie Evans today - instead of making Astana work, fucking Saxo close him down doing Astana's dirty work for them. Evans is a cock but at least he is trying which is more than can be said of any of the other 'contenders'. ##### Co-incidentally, TT haters - just be glad this isn't a 1960's era parcours with 3 ITTs and TTT thrown in for good measure. If you fancy a boring race then what about the 1961 edition - Anquetil into Yellow on day 1 and never left it. A nice 103km of ITT including a nice 74.5km ITT. Wins by 12 minutes and the next most exciting thing is the race between 2nd and 3rd. Please lets not kid ourselves that every race in the 'old days' was epic and full of daring attacks. There were plenty of shitty boring GTs as well. |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
In fairness, we're probably thinking this is a rather dull Tour thanks to it being dominated by LA (even though it isn't actually being dominated by him, you know media sucks)....
But yeah, its BO-RING. For all those fanboys claiming how much he's done for the sport <wet dream moment> etc... there are a heap of other cycling fanatics getting beaten into submission by a relentless media outcry for the chosen one. |
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| cadence |
And you all are just as guilty of talking about him as the rest of the media... 
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| kathy |
A couple of snippets of news.
Andy Schleck is promising attacks - he mentions the Tourmalet. Luis Leon (Caisse d'Epargne  ), would be 'delighted' if Contador wins the Tour.
Oh, and I almost forgot this one - Brunyeel has appealed to the organisers to reconsider their decision to ban radios for those two stages. Brunyeel also said that on stage 7, when Contador attacked, he had lost TV coverage, so left it to the riders to decide what to do. Trying to worm his way out of it diplomatically? If the result was that someone attacked, it sounds like a good case for banning radios to me 
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| glamorganmorgan |
I have posted elsewhere that the official guide calls today'stage a stage for breakaways not for climbers. it is a waste as had been said before. | ||||
| HuwB |
Let the turquoise train take the strain and take a berth in the first class sleeper.
Only children get excited by the thought of a long, uneventful and tiring train journey.
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| Bartali |
BG - whilst I wouldn't put it in the same terms as MJM, I think it is a little bit unfair to say the Giro came down to one stage. In hindsight, then yes the long ITT was desisive. But even that was a surprise as not many of us thought Menchov would win it. Think of all those stages where something might have happened. All those seconds DDL took in the first half. The two attacks by Sastre. Basso attacking. Pelizzotti attacking. Compared to the first week of this TdF it was FANTASTIC viewing.
This is dull because the ITT and TTT have effectively put the climbers out of contention after only 5 days. The only drama appears to be whether LA can get one over on Contador ... and the rational answer to that is no. Kathy - AS to attack on the Tourmalet? I'd be amazed if he did With such a long tail until the end it is difficult to see how he could gain anytime unless he was with a few others ... and that would inevitably be all the usual suspects. We'll see soon enough. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Monday's a rest day, so there may be some guys who are willing to blow their "powder" knowing that they've got a day to recover. | ||||
| Bartali |
interesting to see FP in number 91? | ||||
| joux-plane |
Can anybody explain the team classification to me? Astana have 3 of the top 4 riders yet are behind AG2R who have the leader, 15th and 20th. Do the time trials not count or something? | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
CN says "armstrong is psyched" today...... has Flandis snuck in and spiked his orange juice with testosterone | ||||
| Biosphere |
Best 3 finishing times each day get aggregated. I guess ALM (isn't that the new name) did well enough by having a guy in a break 2 days running to overcome the TTT deficit (which I think is included). |
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| joux-plane |
ok cheers. That would be slightly different from the top 3 GC times being aggregated then. | ||||
| Bartali |
This is a lovely climb - not too steep. Be interesting to see if they can get up the Tourmalet quicker than me ..... by that I mean, how much quicker than me. | ||||
| kathy |
Bartali, that's what Andy Schleck said. Perhaps he's a bit fed up of Riis's tactics, and trying to wind him up. I loved Henrik Redankt's interview at the start of the IES coverage. | ||||
| HuwB |
Popovych off the back on the Aspin.
Was he having his evening meal at his old team's place last night? The Tourmalet and we have THAT old, old story, yet again.... |
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| Bartali |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Get the buggers time guys...see if i can beat him in a few weeks |
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| kathy |
Yep, he said there was this guy nicknamed Bartali who said he'd done a great time on the Tourmalet. He reckons it will be a real challenge
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| Bartali |
SS - you off riding in the Pyrenees soon? |
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| bianchigirl |
To be fair, most races turn on one decisive stage - if you look at 89, for example (as it's been mentioned in another thread), the jersey went back and forth and the leaders were trading stage wins in the mountains. There were several stages that might have proved decisive but the last TT did. In one sense the race turned on one stage, yet the race was apparently won and lost several times beforehand. That was the beauty of having two strong GC riders on different teams and a third strong contender playing catch up. | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
yeah, plan on doing todays stage.....got a cracking new bike, Italian exotica at it's best...its' called a Ducati....
Mate has a pair of Senna 916 specials, the black carbon jobs,....should be fun, failing that we'll drive it, I'm not healthy enough to tackle a molehill right now never mind the Tourmalet but it's the one climb I want a run over this year whatever the mode of transport!! |
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| Bartali |
A Ducati ... that'll take some pedaling!
Don't fotget to stop in the cafe at the top and have a look at the old bikes on the wall. Think they've got Lapize's(sp?) bike |
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| headwind |
that was a thrilling climb | ||||
| Bartali |
Harman likes my new tarmac
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| Hommedesbois |
Liestrong is being paced down by his photographer! | ||||
| HuwB |
? =1000 Nothing quite as tedious as a huge climb, when you know nobody is going to attack.
Holy shite, Laurens Ten Dam looks like Wile E Coyote after the Roadrunner has just blown him up with a stick of dynamite. 
Pinched from elsewhere. 
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| headwind |
by thrilling I meant profound waste of time | ||||
| headwind |
sad...profoundly sad stage.
how cool would a bunch sprint be today? |
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| HuwB |
The Columbia "Mean Machine" train, preparing to screw over another break. Cav is reportedly in the peloton.
The icing on this stale cake of a mountain stage. (nothing to do with the fact that I've FP'd Fedrigo. )
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| Mrs John Murphy |
If this were any other sport then people would be slow hand clapping and shouting 'what a load of rubbish'.
Andy Schleck has a dose of the Evans - talks about attacking and does fuck all. Obviously Daddy has threatened to 'Landis' his blood down the toilet. For those of you wishing for Ventoux to be exciting - fuck off. It won't be. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Most disappointing/boring tour in a long while. But hey, I am sure the US audience figures are high - which if LA were out the back and down by 5 minutes they wouldn't be. Fuck the racing - take a look at the audience figures and sales of Livestrong products in the US. |
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| Hommedesbois |
French commentator annoyingly keeps repeating 'wait and see' in English .....grrr
They agreed that if there had been no French riders to animate it this tour would be crap. I'm off to annoy some snakes. Enjoy your nap you lot. |
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| Bartali |
Well we now know why FP lost all that time yesterday. Looks like he's riding for the polka dot? | ||||
| glamorganmorgan |
it is not a stage for climbers. Stage 7 was ok, but the next interesting (hopefully) day is stage 13 next Friday. Sleep well. | ||||
| Bartali |
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| headwind |
we are hearing rabo forsign the pace for Oscar Friere
Cav, Thor...awesome day in the "mountains" huh? |
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| glamorganmorgan |
on cyclingnews.com it says
Speculation continues as to whether or not Cavendish is in this big group. If he was, we tend to think that the Columbia team would be riding more. We'll let you know if we spot him at any point. |
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| Bartali |
Come on Pelezotti ... keep it going!
Has Pelezotti got a white rear mech?? |
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| glamorganmorgan |
according to the tdf official site the peloton is 168 riders. Cav is there. Hushovdt isn't. | ||||
| Bartali |
Why are Caisse chasing? | ||||
| mayofan |
for rojas? | ||||
| glamorganmorgan |
cyclingnews.com say he isn't
We had a sweeping view of the bunch, and it looks like Cavendish is indeed absent. That's to be expected from the profile of the course; his climbing has improved a lot this year, but these big cols are seriously challenging. |
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| Bartali |
Come on boys ... nearly there!! | ||||
| cyclingtv |
doomed?? 5km.. 44sec..
maybe not.. 4km.. 42sec.. 3km.. 42sec.. 
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| Bartali |
3.1km 41 sec | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
Schlecklet punctures outside 3km to go | ||||
| Bartali |
There not closing ... come on Pelezotti!! | ||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
karma for being a fucking pussy today. |
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| 70kmph |
yes ! | ||||
| Bartali |
1km .... | ||||
| bbnaz |
hot damn.. the break is succeeding | ||||
| 70kmph |
the break mades it ! | ||||
| Bartali |
Damm .... but he deserved it! | ||||
| bbnaz |
and the French are experiencing a great first week at the tour. | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
BBOX get a second stage...brilliant | ||||
| headwind |
FP chucked that pretty badly....
nice win mano a mano...good for Bbox...and TIME bikes!! |
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| glamorganmorgan |
Fedrigo wins, Peleton long way back | ||||
| HuwB |
Perrick by a nose! I'm a happy bunny.
Great rabbit and hare chase, which, not surprisingly, I found exciting!
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| cyclingtv |
should have stayed on his wheel until that last bit.. |
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| headwind |
yup | ||||
| Nolte |
well done Huw both pellizotti and fedrigo rode really well. |
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| KarenP |
All you whiners who say you're board stiff will be on pins and needles the last week of the Tour (and so will the rest of us). | ||||
| kathy |
I thought it was you - as he said, very comprehensive! |
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| kathy |
Well, he has got a big nose - I thought he looks like Barry Manilow with his helmet on. |
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| 70kmph |
Final KM
Link |
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| bianchigirl |
Another win for the French - been a while since they had such a great start n'est-ce-pas? There seem to have been French riders finishing top 10 every stage too, which is heartening.
It would just be nice if, instead of all the excitement coming towards the end, the tension had built nicely. Pyrenees utterly wasted - the fact that you could speculate on a sprinter winning a stage featuring the mighty Tourmalet really said it all
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| headwind |
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| kit |
Good grief! What are you people? Nothing seems to make anybody happy here. Every stage is flawed, every rider is crap, every team is this, every DS is that. Jesus! How miserable you lot must be not to enjoy cycling races as they are and as they come. What a shame, and you call yourselves cycling fans. Grumpies more like... | ||||
| Bartali |
Kit - Perhaps we're just discerning cycling fans.
Do you really think this is a good parcours? |
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| SlowRower |
Bart, To be fair, the accusations to which Kit alludes are doled out in respect of pretty much every race, team and rider! I remember the Giro course getting a severe slating in advance and then when it turns out to be a great race, everyone says what a great course it was. If there'd been three successive MTFs in the Pyrenees then the race would be all over by now, and we'd be saying how boring the next two weeks are going to be. I think the problem lies with the riders and the quality of medical backup rather than the courses. Spectacular bad days of big hitters are very rare these days. (Landis 2006 and Ullrich 1998 are the only ones of the last dozen or so years, if memory serves.) On balance, I have to agree with the "Grumpies" label. Most posters on this forum are at best grumpy a lot of the time on matters relating to pro cycling. Granted, grumpiness comes in varying degrees of constructiveness.
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| Boogerd_Fan |
It may have been a decided race, but we'd have seen some nice rides at least. This has proven to be a week of false promise... pyranees? they may as well have gone round North France. | ||||
| Biosphere |
Good grief Kit. What kind of poster are you? Nothing we say seems to make you happy. Every poster is flawed, every thread is crap . . . Careful or you might be described as a grumpy
We've jut come through the Pyrenees and the grand total of impact on the GC is ~20 seconds gain for one rider over all of his credible rivals. You can't seriously think that's right do you? The organisers have emasculated the Pyrenees to keep the race alive longer, which might have had some merit had they not completely ballsed up on the TTT and displaced the some of the same credible GC contenders by minutes. That's crap and deserves to be called so. |
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| Bartali |
Like I say SR ... do you think it is a good parcours?
Good point re the Giro, but that's because most of us didn't appreciate that the ITT wouldn't disadvantage the climbers so much and the riders were able to eek something out despite the shortened stages. So yes ... the Giro parcours was disappointing, but still acceptable for a GT. This, however, is a joke. A normal route through the pyrenees may have brought the pure climbers closer to the top, but with an ITT to come it would be far from decided. As the Giro demonstrates year after year ... you can have a decent parcours and exciting undecided racing. This is just plain bad ... and I'm sure Kit can see it. Maybe he's old enough to adhere to the any televised cycling is better than no televised cycling. Fair enough, but IMO we should expect more from what is supposed to be the worlds premier race. |
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| HuwB |
Kit, you really are in the minority, or just easily pleased. Take a look at some of the other forums. The complaints here are mild, compared to elsewhere. Even David Harmon was having a good old moan about today's route. http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12635881&start=0 http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2057 Just to get you started.
What's good for Armstrong, is good for SR. |
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| Hommedesbois |
Guess we just haven't caught the Blue Train like you Kit!
Enjoy it, all the way to Kokomo, somewhere down the crazy river. You like it now, you will love it later! |
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| SlowRower |
Bart,
As it happens, I prefer the traditional style of a few sprints, the first ITT, a few successive MTFs, a week of breakaways by those hours down the GC to catch up on work, a few more MTFs in and the final ITT. This year's course hasn't set my pulse racing so far, it's fair to say, although young Mr Cav sounded quite excited about this coming week on ITV4 today, and I do like a good bunch sprint. That wasn't my point, though. Most people here are habitual moaners of long standing, with their moans covering: - Choice of team by particular riders - Treatment of women by riders - Nike - Trek - Unfavourable responses to post race interview requests - Overly long post race interviews - Content of interviews - Resemblence to Hobbits - Racing schedule - Height of rider - Existence of rider - Cost income ratio of charities set up by riders - Sock colour and that's without a single pedal being turned! And let's not forget the biggest cause of moaning: - Fellow posters Obviously, complaints about sock colour are well justified. I wouldn't argue about anyone complaining Trek bikes are pig-ugly either, but that's not why Trek gets moaned at. In summary - On the whole, JC posters moan a lot, although in respect of this year's TDF course, this is probably justified. Also worth noting that the moaning is what makes this place so interesting. Mass harmony and virual love-ins would be tediously dull. |
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| Fontfroide |
I think it is possible to love the Tour (and the Giro etc) and still be critical. Sometimes on this forum it is hard to see the love and easy to see the critique.
I also have to agree that the stages in the Pyrenées brought us nothing at all in the GC. The standings for 10 July and 12 July, for example are EXACTLY the same, to the second. Surely this is not right. There were plenty of other events that we maybe don't mention enough, but GC racing wise, we had a total bust. Total. And we, like "the evil media" spend loads of time discussing Lance and the lads. In that sense we are all the same, he is the show. Sorry, it SEEMS as if he is the show. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Re: Sock colour
You're right, people have complained about this petty issue, but funnily enough, it always seems to be directed at Armstrong. If sock colour was so important to these people then why has no-one mentioned the colour of Miller or Wiggin's sock, or the length for that matter?????????
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| Hommedesbois |
It would be Ok if they were Assos, but Nike? Yuk! | ||||
| Biosphere |
Since it's a rest day tomorrow there's plenty of time to review the official JC response to the Giro route when it was announced. http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/ftopic2765-0-asc-40.php I always like an opportunity to for hindsight to have a say
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| Slapshot 3 |
....and your post takes all your gripes with MJM in a single summary....
Why do we complain - because it's our way, we're never happy as consumers with the product we see. You want my job mate!! Point is this - I love these big races, i love investigating and reading about the past, i adore the present and I long for the future of this sport. I spend a small fortune every year onbooks about cycling (much to Mrs Slapshot's contempt) especially book about GT's (Graham Watsons latest arrived today) I brush up on my french reading David Walsh and Pierre Ballestre.....BUT.... I think as consumers we all have the right to a whinge about the trash we're watching this year in the GT's because the organisers have pandered to that damned texan. Look at the evidence: Giro: Dolomites were pretty much bypassed, Alps were not much cop either Big mountain stages were what we'd normally label as medium mountains. The Crit in the middle of a GT was a joke the protests orchestrated by Pharmstrong turned it into a circus sideshow, complaints about descents.....need I go on. Tour: 3 MTF's two of which are insipid, Arcalis we've had and Verbier to follow, One alpine Stage with a descent that may cause issues (certainly if your surmane is Schleck) Aspin and Tourmalet 70KM from a stage finish a wierd ITT and a TTT that was meat and two veg to Astana. It's a TT'ers tour with the exception of la Mont Ventoux, hence the reason king Kelly reckoned Sparatcus could be there at the end. Personally I believe it's a slap in the face to the history of these great races, Ive said as much about the Giro already. We complain about cycling the same way as a football fan would complain about his team. None of this years stages that I've seen have excited me the same way Alpe D'huez did last year or the Colle de Finnestre in the Giro a couple of years back and lets face it, that excitement is what we watch sporty for. If you don'tlike the complaints or whinges....don't read em. |
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| kit |
Me among the minority again Huw? Thank you very much. Happens I enjoyed yesterday's stage. I saw some good rides, nice scenery, and a fantastic parcours.
You guys haven't. You were looking for what you expected and when it did not materialize, you were disappointed. I'm sorry for you. Hey, expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. Surprises are fun!
As to the riders specially the big fishes not doing anything, hasn't it ocurred to you that they might be saving their breath for the third week? Have a look at the parcours. That requires a lot from riders. That's where you will see the action. But don't expect anything, lest you get disappointed and grumble till the next big race comes along, the Vuelta... But knowing you all, the majority, you'll continue to grumble. Old habits die hard? Absolutely! Cheers!
kit |
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| kit |
Aruba, Jamaica, dum dee dum dee dum dum. Aaah! Kokomo! Now it's good to go there.
Thanks Robin. Well seriously, I'm amused, oh just amused reading all the disappointment and outrage in this forum. If we had a race like what all of you wanted, it would be damned predictable, wouldn't it? Bet then most of you will be calling it boriiiing and so predictable. But the truth is that it was what you expected! Nothing will ever please us really, so why not take the races as they come? If it's not to anybody's liking, KOKOMO is the way to go! 
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| kit |
Lance has dominated this forum. Not because of his fans, but because of the fanboys. Fanboys, you ask? Yeah, those who keep fanning the flame of Lance to keep it alive. While his fans watch him ride, the fanboys keep track of any media coverage he gets and post them here. Then the fanboys fan the flames and keep the Lance discussions alive for ever and ever. That is why " we, like "the evil media" spend loads of time discussing Lance and the lads". It's because of the fanboys, not Lance's fans... 
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| SlowRower |
Slapshot,
I like the complaining as it makes for more interesting threads. I was just highlighting that Kit's accusations of grumpiness could not be ignored in the case of the TDF route on the grounds that they are justified, as grumpiness is long established in these parts. And to be fair, I don't recall MJM complaining about anyone's socks. |
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| kathy |
I'm afraid I never notice the colour of people's socks - who wants to look at socks? I agree that the parcours through the Pyrenees has been disappointing, but there have still been lots of things to enjoy during this Tour - the joy of Voeckler, Feillu and Fedrigo when they won their respective stages, and Nocentini's continued delight at winning and continuing to hold on to the yellow jersey. The Tour always seems to spring some surprises, and I'm sure there will be a few more before the end of the three weeks.
I think the third week will be a real battle, with the ITT and Ventoux to follow - they're all keeping their powder dry for that, although I don't think Sastre and Andy Schleck should leave it as late as that to make their bids for glory. And the whole Astana situation may degenerate into a very interesting battle royal when the chips are down. |
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