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Biosphere

Stage 3 TdF: Tue, July 3rd: Orchies - Boulogne-sur-Mer 197km

Opening of Hostilities

Jean-François Pescheux wrote:
We are now in France and ready to start from Orchies, a familiar place for classics specialists. One could be forgiven for thinking we have come for the cobblestones of Paris-Roubaix, but we are actually going to ride straight away from them towards the hills of the Boulonnais. Six big climbs in 100 kilometres, four of which in the last 16 kilometres. This could mark the opening of hostilities in the Tour. There is no way the sprinters will be there at the finish, which will be decided at the same place as the French Championships won by Chavanel. I think the bunch will be smashed to smithereens.








http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/previews-results/stage-03/
Nolte

so we roughly rise 48 meters in 700 meters which is 7%.
kathy

I was trying to find out exactly where in Boulogne the finish is - even the official website is vague.  I assume it's up the hill through Place Dalton and towards the churches.  It's a bit narrow in parts as well - should be fun!
HuwB

Km 132.0 - Côte de L'Éperche, 0.7 kilometre-long climb at 6.9% - category 4
Km 163.5 - Côte de Mont Violette, 1 kilometre-long climb at 9.2% - category 3
Km 181.0 - Côte de Herquelingue, 1.7 kilometre-long climb at 5.8% - category 4
Km 185.0 - Côte de Quéhen, 1.4 kilometre-long climb at 5.9% - category 4
Km 190.5 - Côte du Mont Lambert, 1.3 kilometre-long climb at 8.4% - category 3
Km 197.0 - Boulogne-sur-Mer, 0.7 kilometre-long climb at 7.4% - category 4
ullrichfan

Morkov in the break AGAIN?!
Biosphere

ullrichfan wrote:
Morkov in the break AGAIN?!


And only 120km to go before he gets his first sniff of KOM points.
CapeRoadie

Sagan's to lose today methinks.
smarauder68

Sagan's the obvious choice, but could we see the return of Gilbert today?
kathy

It's still the finishing hill that really interests me i- becaues I can relate to it!
Biosphere

Sky the first team to lose a man.
HuwB

Movistar get 30 minutes of verbal abuse as a result of putting one man on the front.
Another crash, in a break.
kathy

Seem to be a lot of crashes today. lThis last one looks a bit nasty!
kathy

Rojas abandons!
HuwB

Groups all over the place.

Garmin and Voeckler way behind.
smarauder68

Rojas OUT of the tour. There goes my first fantasy casualty.  What a crap tour for him.
smarauder68

Are we headed for a split peleton today?
Fontfroide

Totally split, in bits.
HuwB

Have garmin got anybody left in the bunch?
Dan M and VDV chasing like crazy.
kathy

Msarkov runs ofsteam!f
Fontfroide

Heavy roads to stick in at the end.   The organisers have done well.
smarauder68

Cancellara looking strong again. I think he's safe until stage 7 at least. Maybe all the way to stage 10.
HuwB

Basso at the head!
kathy

Mimosa has another go - too early again?
smarauder68

massive crash on a climb? how?
smarauder68

I'm following the lame text commentary on cycling news. "massive crash with 500m to go" - How can there be a massive crash on a climb with things stretched out?

Can anybody make sense of this?
Fontfroide

Things were not stretched out.  Bunched more like.
smarauder68

Are there gaps with any of the GC men? Cycling News is having a horid day of explaining things.
smarauder68

Wow, I just saw that 58 riders got the same time up that climb. Gutless officials!
Fontfroide

The crash happened in the last 3k, so everyone in the bunch gets the same time.
smarauder68

There outta be a rule about same time only applying to true sprint finishes. This was more of a climb/classic stage. How can they give same time to 58 riders. Those outside the top 10 don't deserve it.
HuwB

Will take some time to sort that lot out.
Menchov and Froome are currently given time lost, but were in the bunch.
Denis had a mechanical after being put into the barrier.

In that final 700m, 2 Vacansoleil riders fell and 1 rode off course. Embarassed

smarauder68 wrote:
There outta be a rule about same time only applying to true sprint finishes. This was more of a climb/classic stage. How can they give same time to 58 riders. Those outside the top 10 don't deserve it.


'scuse me Scott, but that's just bollocks.
smarauder68

Fontfroide wrote:
The crash happened in the last 3k, so everyone in the bunch gets the same time.


I thought it only applies to sprint stages?
HuwB

smarauder68 wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
The crash happened in the last 3k, so everyone in the bunch gets the same time.


I thought it only applies to sprint stages?


Well just as long as you realize that ALL the RSNT riders except Cancellara were held up. Wink
smarauder68

HuwB wrote:
smarauder68 wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
The crash happened in the last 3k, so everyone in the bunch gets the same time.


I thought it only applies to sprint stages?


Well just as long as you realize that ALL the RSNT riders except Cancellara were held up. Wink


I don't give a damn about Radioshack...My only leanings are toward my wagers and fantasy interests.

I think its unfair that Sagan only gains 1 second over lazy slugs who grab hold of a wheel on a 7.4% climb.
TNG

HuwB wrote:
Will take some time to sort that lot out.
Menchov and Froome are currently given time lost, but were in the bunch.
Denis had a mechanical after being put into the barrier.


Interesting....looks like they've done a u-turn and reclassified everyone again. Wiggins now at +47 seconds on the stage, but still showing +7" overall.
smarauder68

TNG wrote:
HuwB wrote:
Will take some time to sort that lot out.
Menchov and Froome are currently given time lost, but were in the bunch.
Denis had a mechanical after being put into the barrier.


Interesting....looks like they've done a u-turn and reclassified everyone again. Wiggins now at +47 seconds on the stage, but still showing +7" overall.


They must have heard my screams clear across the pond...Smile
gerry12ie

smarauder68 wrote:
HuwB wrote:
smarauder68 wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
The crash happened in the last 3k, so everyone in the bunch gets the same time.


I thought it only applies to sprint stages?


Well just as long as you realize that ALL the RSNT riders except Cancellara were held up. Wink


I don't give a damn about Radioshack...My only leanings are toward my wagers and fantasy interests.

I think its unfair that Sagan only gains 1 second over lazy slugs who grab hold of a wheel on a 7.4% climb.


Like he did on Sunday (well, if you listen to my wife he did Wink )
TNG

smarauder68 wrote:


They must have heard my screams clear across the pond...Smile


Don't cheer too much yet, SM.....now they've changed it back. The times are all over the place at the minute....
MS

That's a significant time loss for Wiggins.
TNG

Probably not. As I said, they've changed him back to the same +1" as all the others in the lead group. And they've corrected Menchov and Froome as well to the same time.
Fontfroide

SM,
One of the reasons for the 3k rule and also for keeping a loose interpretations of the nature of a "group finishing together" (which means that they don't get too fussed about smallish gaps in the peloton at the end) is to avoid having all the GC guys cluttering up the sprint.  So once the GC guys and their helpers get inside 3k, they can relax a bit, drift back a bit and let the sprinters and lead out trains get on with it.  That's why the rule.  They did recognise that Sagan had more than a small gap, so gave him an extra second.

The attempts to fiddle with the rules happen all the time, trying to make a better race, a better spectacle, a safer race, or to set it up for a favoured rider. Whatever.  I am very much in favour of the 3k rule and a loose interpretation of a group finishing together.  

Think about it.
smarauder68

I agree with the 3km rule on flat stages, but this had a nasty uphill climb to the finish.

If no crash there, how many of those guys who went down woulda been able to keep from getting gapped? I suspect dozens woulda been gapped and therefore the 3km rule really diminishes the 7.4% climb at the end and gives a break to the poor climbers.
Beasley

Whilst I'd agree that the 3km rule is often applied too liberally, its founding premise – as FF outlines: so that the GC men can get out the way and let the sprint trains get on with it – is fundamentally sound.

The ASO want spectacles. Having Wiggins, Evans, Menchov et. al. desperately trying to keep at the head of affairs on a flat stage won't add anything to the race.

Other than their inevitable crashing, of course... which would somewhat dampen the GC.
HuwB

The CN forum have been generally gnashing teeth, a la Sm, but specifically bashing away at Wiggins, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Menchov needed a bike change after the incident, even though he didn't hit the ground.

It would have cost him a minute and a half, while stranded 300 metres from the finish.
Watch it again and you will see he considered walking to the top.

That's why we have the 3km rule.

Even the old 1km rule would have had the incident covered.

Oh and who caused the crash? Quite clearly seen from the over head.

Oscar Freire and Andre Griepel. Oscar tried to squeeze through a gap that Griepel closed and took out Rob Ruijgh...........just like in a flat sprint.
HuwB

Today's casualties (so far)
JJ Rojas, triple collarbone fracture, Tom D, a separated shoulder, Tjallingii,  broken hip.
smarauder68

HuwB wrote:
Today's casualties (so far)
JJ Rojas, triple collarbone fracture, Tom D, a separated shoulder, Tjallingii,  broken hip.


Danielson might as well abandon. Save himself for the Tour of Utah...Smile
Bartali

I'm watching it now and haven't seen the finish yet.  Nevertheless, I think Scott makes a fair point because this isn't a regular sprinters stage and the GC men are very much fighting it out at the front because there is time to be gained.  That said, I don't see an easy solution when so many hit the last 3km together.
TNG

Just checking the rules, and the 3k rule applies to ALL stages (sprint or not) apart from the time trial stages (prologue/stage 9/ stage 19) and the three summit finishes (stages 7/11/17).
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
I'm watching it now and haven't seen the finish yet.  Nevertheless, I think Scott makes a fair point because this isn't a regular sprinters stage and the GC men are very much fighting it out at the front because there is time to be gained.  That said, I don't see an easy solution when so many hit the last 3km together.


Just finished watching as 'live'. What Huw says holds and it was two sprinters shouldering each other that caused the crash. At least they weren't going fast enough to take down 20 of those behind them. None of the GC men did anything unless we're really underestimating Sagan Wink
ullrichfan

I'm fairly happy with the 3km limit and might even extend it to 5km for the first week of racing.  This might ease the nerves just that little bit more and result in less crashes.

However, after the first week, I would have no allowances - you have a week to get into the groove, then you're on your own.

Is Prudhomme's job safe or what?
Bartali

Sure the crash was a sprinters crash ... but all the GC men were up there jostling for position too.  Nibs was level with the crash and even Basso was only a few bike back.  To Scott's point, without the 3km rule Nibs or Evans might have pulled back a couple of seconds on (say) Wiggins or Menchov ... and in that respect it was very different from your average flat stage.

Personally I think it was correct to have the rule today because there were so many at the sharp end of the race.  But, where do you draw the line?  How long or steep does the climb have to be before you abandon the rule?  Another 500m?  A km?  After all, this was a categorised climb.[/b]
Boogerd_Fan

SAGAN.

That is all Smile

Post race he confirmed he wants Green in Paris. Go get it boy!!!

p.s. watching Wiggo closely as he tried to avoid but in the end wobbled and stopped... looks like he was having a flapping attack for a few secs but then realized it'd be covered by the rule.

Could say that those guys deserve to lose time, because they had crap positioning at the bottom of the hill?
On the other hand, I agree the rule has its place - even on a stage like today.
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:
Bartali wrote:
I'm watching it now and haven't seen the finish yet.  Nevertheless, I think Scott makes a fair point because this isn't a regular sprinters stage and the GC men are very much fighting it out at the front because there is time to be gained.  That said, I don't see an easy solution when so many hit the last 3km together.


Just finished watching as 'live'. What Huw says holds and it was two sprinters shouldering each other that caused the crash. At least they weren't going fast enough to take down 20 of those behind them. None of the GC men did anything unless we're really underestimating Sagan Wink


Boeckmans was possibly the other guy. The real catalyst though was Baden Cooke, who hit the wall, right in front of Oscarito, causing the compression.
Froome came off worst. Over his bars on the barriers.
Wiggins lost a chain, so had to dismount.

All said and done, it was an uphill sprint, with a mix of sprinters, puncheurs and GC men. So, not surprising things got messy.
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
. . well, if you listen to my wife he did . .


Just tell the Mrs that after the metro-sexual excess of Team Lay-O-Pard, there are rumours of Cancellara heading up a Swiss farmer's vanity project next year and see if that cools her ardour Wink


Click to see full size image
gerry12ie

Biosphere wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
. . well, if you listen to my wife he did . .


Just tell the Mrs that after the metro-sexual excess of Team Lay-O-Pard, there are rumours of Cancellara heading up a Swiss farmer's vanity project next year and see if that cools her ardour Wink


Click to see full size image


I think she is already secretly preparing as agriturismos north of Bergamo are being considered for Il Lombardia... that's close enough innit?
maffy

wouldn't much like to be vaughters' not ryder plan tonite.

media-shoehorn-watch - ms milani's rai pearls had '84 giro 3-2-1 yah-boo-sux and zoncolan '03 today. ned/nos1 late-nite-avondetappe as recommended by huwb is indeed a most excellent thing. almost but not quite re-evaluated smeets...

anybody found a roadbook yet?

---
...even a parked pointydish tells the right time twice a day...
Biosphere

smarauder68 wrote:
I'm following the lame text commentary on cycling news . . .


You could try some liberal pinko commentary instead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2...3/tour-de-france-stage-three-live

Euro Sport also do text commentary which should be easy enough to find once the stage starts - not sure it has a web link as I think it appears in a Flash type box, and I don't use it much.
ullrichfan

Anyone else pissed off at the grief Sagan is getting for his celebrations?  I don't see anything particularly arrogant in them.
Biosphere

ullrichfan wrote:
Anyone else pissed off at the grief Sagan is getting for his celebrations?  I don't see anything particularly arrogant in them.


I thought he was actually funny yesterday. Didn't know he was getting grief.
MAILLOT JAUNE

Belgian commentator said he was doing the Chicken Dance!!!!! The Belgians obviously have very odd Chickens!!!!

Although on the analysis programme later the presenter did mention this error and they showed clips of Forrest Gump to explain it.

As long as Sagan doesn't do the "Pistol" I don't care - just wish he doesn't win as much......
Boogerd_Fan

very entertaining... the guys it could be offending is the guys just behind him, and he's so far ahead he has time to run like Forrest!! to the line!

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