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cadence

Sagan caught in a pinch

Laughing  

Peter Sagan may have finished second in the Tour of Flanders in Belgium on Sunday, but he definitely took first when it came to "jokes" that backfired in a big way.

Sagan, a 23-year-old cyclist from Belgium, is attracting plenty of criticism from the cycling world and beyond after he pinched the backside of a podium girl during the medal ceremony. The mischievous grin on Sagan's face suggests he was hamming it up for the cameras that were trained on him, but he quickly learned the error of his ways once the photo made its way around the Internet.

Fontfroide

This photo was posted, with comments on the thread devoted to Flanders races.
cadence

Fontfroide wrote:
This photo was posted, with comments on the thread devoted to Flanders races.


Whoops, Mods, please delete this thread.
MAILLOT JAUNE

Apparently Sagan has had his knuckles wrapped and unreservedly apologised.
berck

I don't see the need to delete it. I'm fine with leaving it here.
ullrichfan

Definitely a mistake from Sagan - he should have gone for the brunette...
kathy

This has already been discussed on the Flanders thread.  Why another one'  In any other walk of life, Sagan would be dismissed for sexual harrassment.
CapeRoadie

kathy wrote:
This has already been discussed on the Flanders thread.  Why another one'  In any other walk of life, Sagan would be dismissed for sexual harrassment.


Another reason I really detest this kid.  He's just a doped-up arse.
MAILLOT JAUNE

CapeRoadie wrote:
 He's just a doped-up arse.

There's a joke in there somewhere, but it's too early in the morning for me to think of something.....
HuwB

kathy wrote:
This has already been discussed on the Flanders thread.  Why another one'  In any other walk of life, Sagan would be dismissed for sexual harrassment.


In any other walk of life, the whole peloton would be serving time for sexual misdeeds. Wink
Fontfroide

"Sean who", he said (jokingly??) in a Velo interview.  The guy is a strong fellow, good bike handling skills, not too bad with strategy for his age, but a complete plonker as a social being.  The fact that there might be so many lads in the cycling community that make excuses for his behaviour does say something about the cycling community.  Fortunately, most seem to have agreed his behaviour was NOT a joke and NOT a "bit of fun".  Just gross, as well as against the law, although perhaps sexual harassment in Belgium is OK.  Maybe in Belgium you can just grab ass anytime you like with any woman you see.  We shall see about Sagan as the years go on.  I doubt he will get sacked or even reprimanded by his club, after all, "he apologised".

If it turns out he is a doper, as at least one of us suspects, even worse.
SlowRower

Fontfroide wrote:
...a complete plonker as a social being.


I think that's maybe a bit harsh. At Sagan's age, I'm sure we all did some pretty stupid things. Or maybe that's just me.

He was definitely wrong, though, and I read elsewhere that he's been given an almighty b*llocking by the Cannondale bigwigs. I also read a comment attributed to the lady in question along the lines of "I was really annoyed and wanted to kick him, but didn't as it would have been unprofessional". I think in this case, she'd surely have been forgiven a brief lapse in professionalism!

Slightly off-topic, but road cycling is incredibly sexist. Mrs SR could doubtless comment more effectively than me - if she wasn't spending all her time training! - but the attitude of male "roadies" to their female counterparts is striking - and unfavourably so - compared to rowing, running, triathlon and even mountain biking.

One quote - from a guy who I got chatting to on the road one day, who knew nothing of MRs SR's abilities -  sums this attitude up: "Your wife should join our club. They have some slow club runs that are ideal for girls."
Biosphere

Totos take

http://nyvelocity.com/content/toto/2013/toto-turns-271

Nolte wrote:
it doesn't seem a sincere apology but looking at it and the use of the word "disturbed", this would indicate the apology is someone who doesn't have english as a first language so on this basis, the apology would seem to be from him.


Well, my guess would be that the PR man (or woman) for Cannondale doesn't have English as their first language either. Basically I'm thinking that he was told to apologise by his employers.

Anyway, what he did was wrong and stupid, and it's good to see that it was mainly responded to in that way, but I'm not convinced that it's a sacking offence etc.
Fontfroide

SlowRower wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
...a complete plonker as a social being.


I think that's maybe a bit harsh. At Sagan's age, I'm sure we all did some pretty stupid things. Or maybe that's just me.



I don't even know the guy.  Never met him, only read about him in mags.  So you could be right.  In regard to some things, I AM harsh.

As far as doing pretty stupid things, maybe we all did.  I don't remember coming close to doing something that stupid, certainly not when I was on live TV with cameras running.  The guy gets hundreds of thousands a year, he should learn how to behave in front of cameras even if behaves like that in private.  Not just stupid but against the law.  You just are not allowed to grab ass whenever you get the urge, except maybe in a club amongst drunken youth.  Just like you are not allowed to punch someone every time you feel like it.  Clearly many cyclists find this behaviour humorous, a bit of fun.  But me, I have heard this "bit of fun", "no sense of humour" said by so many men over so many decades, it is getting boring and really annoying.

A bit harsh maybe, but goodness gracious, the guy acts like he was a badly brought up teenage lad.  He is ON TV, dozens of cameras whirring.
gerry12ie

And besides, he looks like Alice the Goon...


SlowRower

Fontfroide wrote:
As far as doing pretty stupid things, maybe we all did.  I don't remember coming close to doing something that stupid, certainly not when I was on live TV with cameras running.  The guy gets hundreds of thousands a year, he should learn how to behave in front of cameras even if behaves like that in private.  Not just stupid but against the law.  You just are not allowed to grab ass whenever you get the urge, except maybe in a club amongst drunken youth.


I wouldn't disagree with your assessment of the act. It was writing off Sagan as a "plonker of a social being" that was harsh, in my view. That's an extreme judgement in respect of someone you don't know.

Re the first bit in bold above: Isn't that the whole point? Sagan presumably didn't think his act was stupid, just as you didn't know at the time some of your acts were stupid. I'm taking a liberty that since you have been a young man in your time, you must have done something that stupid, albeit not on TV.

Re the second bit in bold: Why is this OK? That's presumably "a bit of fun" by someone's assessment. Why shouldn't the same standards apply in both situations? Why should podium girls on TV be granted more protection than girls in clubs?
Bartali

Personally I think it was 'shocking' because I'm not used to seeing behaviour like that on the podium, but we must be careful not to put UK 'standards' on a Slovak national.  It is quite possible that what is 'normal' to him was 'normal' to us 20+ years ago ... and while I don't condone it I still see similar behaviour everyday of my life.

Fine him, maybe even suspend him for a week or so ...
ullrichfan

My previous comment was a joke, just for the record!  Sagan was obviously wrong but I'm with Slowrower in that I don't think it's the worst crime.  Christ, cycling has more serious problems than this to address.

On the issue of sexism, however, perhaps we should be questioning why on earth there are podium girls in the first place.  Arguably it encourages (but doesn't excuse) laddish behaviour like Sagan's.
MAILLOT JAUNE

Missed your fist comment UF!  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Totally agree with you on your last comment though. I know it's a "tradition" to have dolly birds on the podium, but why not get celebrities, local dignitaries to present all the prizes. Or have competitions for fans to win the chance of presenting a prize on the podium????
gerry12ie

Yes UF, but one of the more serious problems that cycling needs to address is the perilous state of the women's sport and in that respect Sagan's crass antics undermines even further the role of women in pro cycling.  

As I said already, in most other sports he would be now serving a ban or suspension and his team or governing body should have ensured that.
Fontfroide

SlowRower wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
As far as doing pretty stupid things, maybe we all did.  I don't remember coming close to doing something that stupid, certainly not when I was on live TV with cameras running.  The guy gets hundreds of thousands a year, he should learn how to behave in front of cameras even if behaves like that in private.  Not just stupid but against the law.  You just are not allowed to grab ass whenever you get the urge, except maybe in a club amongst drunken youth.


Re the first bit in bold above: Isn't that the whole point? Sagan presumably didn't think his act was stupid, just as you didn't know at the time some of your acts were stupid. I'm taking a liberty that since you have been a young man in your time, you must have done something that stupid, albeit not on TV.

Re the second bit in bold: Why is this OK? That's presumably "a bit of fun" by someone's assessment. Why shouldn't the same standards apply in both situations? Why should podium girls on TV be granted more protection than girls in clubs?


I didn't do anything like that in my youth.  Too shy, too aware it was a bad idea.  Too well brought up.  As for the second comment, I agree with you, but have found the behaviours of drunken lads in clubs (or anywhere) at about the same level as sober Sagan on the podium.  Don't approve of  either one.  Certainly it is just plain stupid to do it on the box.
Fontfroide

Bartali wrote:
Personally I think it was 'shocking' because I'm not used to seeing behaviour like that on the podium, but we must be careful not to put UK 'standards' on a Slovak national.  It is quite possible that what is 'normal' to him was 'normal' to us 20+ years ago ... and while I don't condone it I still see similar behaviour everyday of my life.

Fine him, maybe even suspend him for a week or so ...


He has been riding and hanging out in the advanced Western world for long enough to know better.  Although maybe he has been hanging out with the wrong sorts or people, as this behaviour certainly happens in Britain, France, America.  Ask any woman.  I asked a group of three about that yesterday, and they had loads of tales. I am quite happy to "put UK (French USA) standards" of proper behaviour on Sagan.  Its not like he was from the deepest Amazon or New Guinea or the polar icecap.  He knew it was borderline.  Look at the smile.  He is a badly behaved lad.

I have not yet read about a fine or suspension, he just was forced to write out an apology.  Sorry.  Let's ride.
ullrichfan

gerry12ie wrote:
Yes UF, but one of the more serious problems that cycling needs to address is the perilous state of the women's sport and in that respect Sagan's crass antics undermines even further the role of women in pro cycling.


I see your point Gerry - so surely getting rid of podium girls (as out-dated and chauvinistic a concept to me as Miss World) might be one step towards women being taken more seriously in the sport?
Bartali

I wonder how many times someone like Valverde has had his arse pinched by female fans...?

Gerry and Ulle both make good points IMO.
gerry12ie

ullrichfan wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
Yes UF, but one of the more serious problems that cycling needs to address is the perilous state of the women's sport and in that respect Sagan's crass antics undermines even further the role of women in pro cycling.


I see your point Gerry - so surely getting rid of podium girls (as out-dated and chauvinistic a concept to me as Miss World) might be one step towards women being taken more seriously in the sport?


I don't disagree UF.  I'm not averse to a bit of eye-candy but for sure it's an outdated tradition which in itself probably undermines the role of women in the sport and could easily be jettisoned without too much furore.  On the day that the greatest cyclist of the current era filled out her palmares by taking De Ronde voor Vrouwen Sagan's antics were all the shabbier... On the way home we were talking to a club mate of my wife who did the full 260k Cyclo Ronde on the Saturday.  She crashed twice, had to walk the Koppenberg, but completed in under 13 hours - I manfully resisted the temptation to pat her on the bum and tell her she was a great girl for finishing it Wink
ullrichfan

In the interests of equality, I think you'd have to pat both cheeks...
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
It is quite possible that what is 'normal' to him was 'normal' to us 20+ years ago ...


Excellent point. Not so long ago, monkey chants and banana throwing was considered normal at English football matches. Not long before that, Jim Davidson was considered funny, as was "Mind Your Language" and "It ain't half hot, mum", despite all three being overtly racist to one degree or another. Views on normality/acceptability can change quite quickly.
Nolte

SlowRower wrote:
Bartali wrote:
It is quite possible that what is 'normal' to him was 'normal' to us 20+ years ago ...


Excellent point. Not so long ago, monkey chants and banana throwing was considered normal at English football matches. Not long before that, Jim Davidson was considered funny, as was "Mind Your Language" and "It ain't half hot, mum", despite all three being overtly racist to one degree or another. Views on normality/acceptability can change quite quickly.


although people still find seth mcfarlane/family guy and ricky gervais funny.
maffy

quite liked the rgerv "derek" series recently, although it wasn't exactly funny. still undecided about the lifeisshort thing.
shagger's has had a few more years to adapt to living in italia, which could be placed in the "advanced western world" and yet his italian interviews aren't that expressive and seem monotone compared to evans or what cav could manage a few years back. he's now really annoying cape in inglesi, so he's doing something right. not this tho. get rid of podium girls. or not, as it's probably better than working in the local lidl. wait on maybe they do...
Biosphere

Having known a few Slovaks and Czechs, I'm not really sure where people are getting the impression that we need to make special allowances for them.

Since the subject of Sagan being a bit Italian now has been raised, typical managers strutting their stuff in front of staff from when I was around the coffee vending machines included:

Manager person number 1 explained how when he gets female applicants for a job, he goes to their Facebook page to see if he would or wouldn't and invites them to an interview on that basis.

Manager person number 2 was describing a female member of staff as being completely useless, but he kept her on because she dressed sexily and therefore was good for morale (engineering being a >95% male profession)

This was the permanent toilet sign for the ladies loo on the floor I worked on.



I really don't think it's much better in the rest of the "advanced western world" either before we start talking about needing to make special allowances for Italians.
Boogerd_Fan

We’ve just enjoyed the traditional Easter antics of “sibacka” where the young men of each Slovak village walk around the town during the Easter Monday bank holiday with buckets of water and a woven stick (Korbac).



The tradition is that they will catch the women of the village, whip them with the stick and then throw the bucket of water over them, as an annual blessing of good health and prosterity.



Not to say this has anything to do with Sagan, but you can see that Slovakian attitude to women is not quite as PC as in the UK.
mazda

A bit OTT (and that is just this discussion).

Anyone know if he has privately apologised to the lady in question ?
I guess if it was a genuinely private apology then we wouldn't know.

I'm never sure what to make of it when we hear that a footballer has apologised for something or other done or said.
You know, as if they apologised just so they could say they had apologised.
Boogerd_Fan

There was the Youtube video apology.. naming her... but.. not sure about a private one.
gerry12ie

Just remembered something that I found bizarre in extreme last week at the Tour of Flanders museum at Oudenaarde, when I was stalking Freddy Maertens.  There are wall size pictures of Boonen and Emma Johansson and a list of comparisons between them.  Like on the background of this gratuitous shot of Freddy's time machine...




Anyway, the purpose of this imaginative display is to underline 'Why Tom Boonen will always beat Emma Johansson'  Shocked by way of arrows pointing to their anatomies with accompanying text.  Tom's arrows point to his warriors heart, giant legs, and arm muscles while the pointers for Emma are her chest, hips and groin.  A brief synopsis of this insanely mundane argument concludes that poor Emma us a victim of her natural fat carrying propensity and lack of muscle, and who is slowed by her curves (really) and astonishingly further weakened by blood loss through menstruation which 'may also cause touchiness and tiredness'!!!

Perhaps they should have added something about bike handling skills because while Boonen was crashing twice in a week Johansson was winning in France and taking a podium at Flanders...

Beggars belief...


Biosphere

That's unbelievable!

Anyway, surely the blood loss that results from male riders visiting the catchily named refrigeration complex run by their local gynaecologist balances things out?
Fontfroide

mazda wrote:
A bit OTT (and that is just this discussion).

Anyone know if he has privately apologised to the lady in question ?
I guess if it was a genuinely private apology then we wouldn't know.

I'm never sure what to make of it when we hear that a footballer has apologised for something or other done or said.
You know, as if they apologised just so they could say they had apologised.


Should have posted it.  I read she has accepted his apology.  But she has also said she almost slapped his hand away, when she felt it, but controlled herself and tried to be "Professional".  She apparently went along with it, but thought it was OTT.  She is not "a model" but someone who works in the admin for the Tour of Flanders.  But who knows, what you read these days, it is hard to know who said what or who did what if there is not a photo.  Oh wait, there is.
Bartali

Well .... it works both ways

JohnD

Hehehe - great pic! Smile
Mrs John Murphy

Of course it serves as a useful distraction from anyone mentioning Luigi.

I can't think that there is something of a double standard. Let's say Pozzato had done it, or Cavendish what would the reaction have been then?

Lets not forget the fact that one of the more popular photos at one point was of a podium girl who was going commando. Outrage at a rider but none at the photographer? What about all of the 'girls on bikes' type threads, or fact that the only way for a female cyclist to get any mainstream press is to do a nude photo shoot.

Sagan is basically part of a wider problem of sexism within cycling which sees women as second class citizens.
ullrichfan

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
I can't think that there is something of a double standard. Let's say Pozzato had done it, or Cavendish what would the reaction have been then?


There wouldnt have been any reaction from me if it was Cavendish - it's what I'd expect from that moronic narcissist.
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
Well .... it works both ways



Well Sagan's tweeted reaction to that undermines his more 'sincere' team orders apology and highlights his original half-arsed shrug of an effort at apologizing...

Quote:
She forgot to recognize me for my podium patent hahaha!!! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHY2N6WCcAAo51s.jpg:large


https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/321649506900910081

What Pippo or Cav (or anyone else for that matter) might do and the possible reaction to it is a red herring shrouded in a smokescreen.  The boy is a crass hick of the highest order and the sport can't be bothered punishing him for it because it's obviously ok.
Mrs John Murphy

He might be a crass hick, however, if one of the other crass hicks who litter the sport were to do this there would be much less of a condemnatory reaction.

I am sure that people would say 'oh its just Pozzato being Pozzato, he's just a cheesy Italian guy, or Frodo is such a cheeky chappy'.

Sagan is becoming like Ricco - a useful punching bag - for doing nothing more than reflecting the wider moral corruption of the sport.

The sport wouldn't do anything about any of them. I'm quite sure McQuaid is thinking 'If only I'd thought of that'.
gerry12ie

Come on, MJM, 'nothing more than reflecting the wider moral corruption of the sport'??  We could all do alot worse than call him for what he is, instead of viewing him as some kind of weathervane pointed at the dark heart.  Of course there are wider issues to be debated, but fantasizing about imaginary situations (Cav as Sid James for instance) doesn't help in this instance.  He was caught red-handed showboating for the media lads and he still sees nothing wrong in it.  He isn't cycling's Marcel Duchamp asking unanswerable questions, he's an arsehole plain and simple.
Mrs John Murphy

Not disputing any of that. He's an arsehole. So is Ricco. There are so many arseholes in cycling it would be better to ask the question 'who in cycling isn't a knuckledragging moronic douchebag'. I think that the answer would maybe come back in single figures.

However, I do think that if it had been a different rider with a different media persona, the outrage would be a lot less from the media.

Cycling is a sport which at all levels treats women as second class citizens.

Women are there to be objectified either as podium girls or rider X posing naked to get some attention for her otherwise ignored career.

How many female heads of national federation are there? How many women at Fed level are there in the UK or Ireland?

Sagan doing what he is did really just reflects wider sexism in the sport.
Boogerd_Fan

I had no idea where to stick this, but its worth a share.

People might have started to doubt this guy's performances... but PED's don't help you being an absolute legend skills-wise... check this new clip out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM9Eh2uQ7Ek
Bartali

Very good!! Smile
mr shifter

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
I had no idea where to stick this, but its worth a share.

People might have started to doubt this guy's performances... but PED's don't help you being an absolute legend skills-wise... check this new clip out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM9Eh2uQ7Ek

He took his Helmet off when he got in the car.
Should be told it is more dangerous in there for head injuries.
berck

Great job by Sagan! Smile
JohnD

Ack, someone pointed out on another forum it might be a bit suss - he's very quickly unclipped & strapped the bike in in the time it takes the cameraman to get out of the back seat....maybe that's what the wink was about at the end.
Slapshot 3

JohnD wrote:
Ack, someone pointed out on another forum it might be a bit suss - he's very quickly unclipped & strapped the bike in in the time it takes the cameraman to get out of the back seat....maybe that's what the wink was about at the end.


Someone moved the ramp/kicker that would have been necessary to get a race bike up there as well

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