| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| chardon |
Rest Day Rumour - Armstrong will announce new American TeamWatch the papers tomorrow!
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| Jackov |
Nike? | ||||
| Slapshot 3 |
Said it weeks ago....its a new team sponsored by Livestrong, Twitter and facebook to be called
"Livestrong Twatface"...
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| Bartali |
I can't see it myself. LA isn't a credible GC man and he doesn't race enough. Second thoughts .... maybe they'll build something around Taylor Phinney with LA as coach/DS | ||||
| Beasley |
The Armstrong 'brand' probable has the pull for one or two seasons backing, but long term he needs to be offering up something major.
I think Bartail's on the money. Phinney should be a gold medalist coming out of 2012, so he'll get exposure via Leno, Lettermann etc. Equally, he's just won the espoirs version of P-R, so could have a good run at the Classics in 2013. That's where the money is. |
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| kathy |
Armstrong has been talking to Andy Schleck a lot recently. I do hope Andy isn't tempted. I don't like Riis, but he's ten times better than Armstrong. | ||||
| Mrs John Murphy |
What sponsor would be willing to plough money into a team on the vague promise of what someone might do in 3-4 years? In this financial climate there are very few sponsors with the funds to match the budget expectations of Armstrong. The 'Armstrong brand' wasn't enough to help Discovery get any new sponsors, before so why would it be any different now? |
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| Fontfroide |
I think he will find a mix of old and young riders, One rider who is a potential GC contender, hire Johan, and get the money. He is a businessman. Why would anyone sponsor? Because LA can get publicity like no other cyclist on earth. And teams get sponsored for publicity at a cheap price. No idea why you all have such trouble with this idea. but then we will see tomorrow, and as time flies by.
Who would have thought the old fart would be second after two weeks? Is there some reason you all don't see that as a major success, no matter what happens next? I still say what I said, top five as outside chance, dead certainty in the top ten. and more publicity, interviews and visibility than any four cyclists put together and any three teams. |
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| SlowRower |
A most profound question! |
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| Beasley |
Ff's got it, for me -
The truth is, sponsoring a cycling outfit isn't expensive. $10m-$12m will probable get an organisation a PT standard team capable of racing from February to October. Whilst the current economic climate isn't conducive to getting a sponsors cash, many will be looking at 'downgrading' and a team which can (almost) assure round the clock exposure would be a fairly safe bet. After all, promotion still happens, whatever the weather! Being able to present a long-term strategy is the key. Phinney, already a track WC in an Olympic discipline, would solve that. |
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| CapeRoadie |
Not so sure about that. Armstrong has always been a strong motivator for his teams, in one way or another. |
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| Bartali |
Take away the 40 seconds and he isn't top 5. Bottom line he has been found wanting on every stage of note. Take away the TTT and then what do you have ... The race though is what it is ... |
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| SlowRower |
Bart, I'm surprised at you making this sort of post. If you were posting in a pro-Armstrong fashion, you would be flamed as a Fanboy attempting to re-write history, despite your acknowledgement that the race is what it is! If Fignon had had a set of aerobars, he'd have won the 1989 Tour, but he didn't and LeMond did. The TTT and the likely impact thereof was not exactly a closely guarded secret throughout the winter, and pre-race predictions should have factored this in when anyone was trashing Armstrong's chances. (I'm sure yours did!) Take out the 40secs on stage 5 and he's actually joint 3rd with Kloden, although Levi would probably been in front of him now as well if he'd not crashed and not lost 40 secs prior to crashing. He's certainly lost time on all the key stages, but apart from Bertie, all GC contenders (by which I mean anyone who isn't a sprinter, TT specialist or polka dot jersey guy) have as well, so the observation isn't overly helpful. Armstrong's got no chance of catching Bertie, and Schleck the Younger will probably overhaul him (and maybe Wiggo) but the others who outclimbed him today are probably too far back to challenge. (Kloden will be paid not to.) Note "probably"... Top 4 or 5 is certainly not out of the question, as the 40 seconds on stage 5 won't be added back on, even if they were stolen. 
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Two weeks into a race where there have been two stages of road racing and two time trials one of which was a team time trial. That Armstrong is second is a reflection of the inertia of the peloton not of any brilliance on his part.
Beasley - you're over-rating the appeal of Phinney. You are looking at asking someone to invest 50 million based on potential. Why put that money into cycling when there are better sponsorship investments. Long term planning is fine but it is very rare for sponsors to last more than 5 or so years - most of the long term sponsors tend to be European and with business interests which are integrated into Northern Europe. Secondly - his team mix - Astana are an old squad and need some serious upgrading - it is obvious that the money this winter is going to be with the 'new' Astana. The obvious GC rider would be LL since he is American and obviously this appeals to the target market but the Dwarf will be 36 but would you want to build at team around him. He might get the money in the short term but I doubt that the team will be around in 2013 or whenever the second coming is supposed to be. |
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| Geraint |
The answer is Floyd. He is younger than Levi and already well-known to the media, not to mention a TdF winner. 
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| MS |
He's been a strong motivator of riders subservient to him. The question is whether he would be a strong motivator of riders for whom he would ride or direct as a DS or adviser. The success Postal and Disco had apart from the Tour largely occurred without Armstrong's presence. And, some times, without Bruyneel's. Neither were there to help Savoldelli win in the Giro in 2005 and I don't recall Bruyneel helping Heras in his Vuelta wins in 2003 and 2004. If you were Schleck and attempting to repeat at L-B-L next season, whou would you rather have preparing you, Riis or Armstrong/Bruyneel? Not a tough call for me. |
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| Bartali |
The race is what it is and I have acknowledged many times that LA is doing a good ride. My comments are in no way attempting to re-write history, merely to note that his current placing (2nd) is not a useful indicator of his future performance as it is flattered by the TTT and a bit of smart riding on a flat stage which though merit worthy is not the sort of thing one would factor in to the remaining stages. Lets face it ... all the guys out there predicting a 'win' for LA never factored in 40 seconds gained on a flat stage. So, as a predictor of future performance in the race, we (sadly) have just three stages. ITT - beaten by Bertie, Kloden, Nibs, Evans, Wiggins, LL and Martin Arcalis - beaten by Bertie. Finished no better than evans, wiggins, LL, Martin, Sastre, Shreks. Nibs at only 10 sec, Kloden at a few more secs after towing Astana up the climb Verbier - beaten by bertie, shreks, wiggins, evans, sastre, nibs, Kloden Just think that is a better context for how well LA is riding (which is still v.good) that people pointing to his second place and suggesting a podium finish is still possible. The TTT and 'stolen' 40 seconds are real ... but they are passed. More climbs and ITTs to come. |
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| headwind |
Thats exactly right bartali, imo.his position has nothing to do with special riding of any significance. the 2 climbing stages found him without the capacity to take charge. he is riding high with a strong team that can pace and the time trials. so far, theres been little brilliance. is he good? sure. but not memorable. here in the states even he said the parcours was drowsy. if in fact this was a tough race, he would be down the list. i think by the time ventoux is over he'll be lucky to be top 10.
so, yes he is in second. but with so little real tactical racing (~15 km) having had occurred its not unreasonable. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
How much "special riding of significance" did Armstrong do when he won his 7 TdF's, compared to now? | ||||
| headwind |
more. can you name one memorable moment of this race? |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
I'm not saying that there's any one memorable moment of this race. You stated that he hasn't done anything significant, I'm just asking you to name what significant things he's done in the past. Just saying "more" doesn't exactly detail them.
Although, saying that I'd say getting into the right side of the split on Stage 3 was significant. Call it luck,experience or whatever, he was in the right place at the right time and it seemed that Contador was stuck to the back of his wheel,until the mountain stages, after that. |
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| Bartali |
Well ... you could say 22 stage wins were significant. That's about 3 per TdF. Throw in a few stages where he distanced the other GT favorites without winning a stage and that would be .... compared to this TdF ..... lots! |
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| nzovu |
Well the rumours seemed to be right?
http://tour-de-france.velonews.co...5588/bruyneel-astana-to-part-ways |
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| Bartali |
Interesting stuff. Funny how the implication is that Bruyneel struggles with Vino because of his doping past, yet has no problem with Kloden?
Who keeps the pro tour license? |
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| nzovu |
Yeah I wondered about that too. Maybe he just needs an excuse to leave... |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Kloden hasn't been banned, whereas Vino has! That subtle difference seems to matter to Bruyneel...........
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| SlowRower |
Steady, MJ. You'll get into trouble...
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| Bartali |
So you are saying he has an issue with a man that has served his time but not the one that has so far evaded justice? | ||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Oh boy, I'm in trouble with Bartali now -  
What I'm saying is that Bruyneel seems to have a different "moral" system and he seems to give everyone (of any use to him) a fair chance - until they're caught - look at the Basso case. I'm not saying that I agree with him.
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| SlowRower |
Bart's in a feisty mood at the moment. I got into trouble big time yesterday.
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Oooh, what did you say to rattle Bart's cage?
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| SlowRower |
I got involved in a WUM exchange with MJM! Roid Rage all round and demoted to last place by Commissaire Bartali.
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
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| nzovu |
I believe there's a saying for that. "Innoncent until proven guilty". No?
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
nzovu, that'd be a succinct way of putting it! Thanks
Although, what I'm saying is that people seem to think that Bruyneel know's who is doping and he will take them on regardless, unless they get caught. He knows they are guilty, but since they haven't tested positive he's OK with that. |
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| chardon |
Interesting that the ASTANA bus was stopped at the border yesterday and the police went in. Flash news said there was no incident. Wonder if even without JB, ASTANA will still be viewed suspiciously as the dopers team (well Vino, Kash, and perhaps Kloeden...) |
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| Bartali |
Sorry guys .... I'll crawl back under my rock.
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Is it a rock from Mont Ventoux????
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| Slapshot 3 |
Nonsense man....if we can't police ourselves we'll have mods in here. Don't mind good debate but WUMmers are a pain in the butt. |
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