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HuwB

La Vuelta, Week 2: Stages 8-14, Aug 30th-Sept 6th

Stage 8
Map:

Profile:

Finish


Stage 9
Map:

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Finish


Stage 10
Map:

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Finish


Stage 11
Map:

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Finish


Stage 12
Map:

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Finish


Stage 13
Map:

Profile:

Finish


Stage 14
Map:

Profile:

Finish
Biosphere

Fontfroide wrote:
These stage diagrams are a little strange.  Stage 9, for example, looks really steep on the stage long diagram, until you see the last five k diagram, which don't look all that steep.  Am I missing something?  

5k, 275 metres of climbing?  That does not sound very steep.  Anyway, you guys that know about these things, what is steep and what is not, help me out.


In the diagram, you've got way more compression on the horizontal axis compared to the vertical so it's always going to "look" steep.

Anyway, in this case it makes more sense to talk about 535m in 8km for an average of just under 7%? Starts off steep at the bottom so that's where the pain is - and the attacks hopefully Smile
HuwB

Today's weather map:
kathy

That's quite cool for Albacete.
HuwB

Well, the stage has exploded into echelons. Smile
Mrs John Murphy

Do we know who has been dropped?
mazda

more splitting

Quintana and Martin in second group might be coming back

no idea who is further behind
mazda

Giant have dragged Degenkolb back, along with Quintana, Martin, Ten Dam

5k to go
mazda

standard sprint now
mazda

Bouhanni (a bit out of control at the end) from Matthews.
Fontfroide

I agree, although I am not sure it was "out of control".  Looked to me to be dangerously close to "changing his line" at the end, to stop Matthews from catching him.  Matthews had to stop pedalling and take a little evasive action.  Clever riding by Nacer or a little bit over the top.  Not for me to say, but if I were the Australian I would be a little bit annoyed.
Mrs John Murphy

31 man breakaway

Winner ANACONA (2) LAM
Damiano CUNEGO (3), LAM
Maxime BOUET (13) AG2R
Rinaldo NOCENTINI (1Cool, AG2R
Alexey LUTSENKO (27), Astana
Paul MARTENS (36), Belkin
Dominik NERZ (46) BMC
Danilo WYSS (49), BMC
Peio BILBAO (54) Caja
Lluis MÁS BONET (57), Caja
Jerome COPPEL (72) Cof
Romain ZINGLE (79), Cof
Natnael BERHANE (82), Europcar
Jérôme COUSIN (83) Europcar
Yannick MARTINEZ (87), Europcar
Ryder HESJEDAL (101) Garmin
Johan VAN SUMMEREN (109), Garmin
Nikias ARNDT (112), Giant
Pirmin LANG (125), IAM
Eduard VORGANOV (139), Katusha
Adam HANSEN (146), Lotto
Javier MORENO (158), Movistar
Daniel TEKLEHAIMANOT (166) MTN
Jay Robert THOMSON (167), MTN
Tom BOONEN (171) QST
Carlos VERONA (179), QST
Sam BEWLEY (181), Orica
Dario CATALDO (192), Sky
Julian David ARREDONDO MORENO (212), Trek
Fabio FELLINE (213) Trek
Bob JUNGELS (214). Trek

Cannondale, FDJ.fr and Tinkoff - Saxo are the only teams without a rider up front

Lead up to 5.45 after 68km
Biosphere

Just been watching the GP Plouay.

Result
Spoiler:

Chavanel wins a sprint from his breakaway companions with the peloton about 3 seconds behind and closing not fast enough.



In the Vuelta, reports of thunderstorms on the final climb.
HuwB

Been watching, too so my weather report is late. Hope the helis can fly.
Must be the only rain in Spain.


Arredondo ftw. Seems to be his MO. Grupetto fodder for all but 2 or 3 mountain stages.
Biosphere

Just over 20km to go for the break and the 95% probability of rain had been converted into100% actuality. That little descent before before the final climb might be an opportunity? Aru off the back with a seeming mechanical (or crash?)
Boogerd_Fan

Aru back on.. so assume puncture.

The familiar sight of kiriyenka hammering out a relentless pace
Biosphere

Chucking it down at the finish and flashes of lightning out on the course.
Biosphere

Anacona going for the stage and the leaders jersey.
Mrs John Murphy

Dertie gets out the motorbike
HuwB

Quote:
Alberto Contador @albertocontador · Jul 23
Bad day,the wound healing gets complicated,I've no date to take the bike.Goodbye to the Vuelta.


Bullshit Bertie also winning the battle of the porkie pies.Wink
Chaves took a bit of a hit today.
Mrs John Murphy

Piti loses Red.

1. QUINTANA, Nairo Alexander
2. CONTADOR, Alberto+ 3''
3. VALVERDE, Alejandro + 8''
4. ANACONA, Winner + 9''
5. FROOME, Christopher + 28''
6. RODRIGUEZ, Joaquin + 30''
7. ARU, Fabio + 1' 06''
8. GESINK, Robert + 1' 19''
9. URAN, Rigoberto + 1' 26''
10. BARGUIL, Warren + 1' 26''
11. NIEVE, Mikel + 1' 33''
12. CHAVES RUBIO, Esteban + 1' 34''
13. SÁNCHEZ, Samuel + 1' 35''
14. CARUSO, Damiano + 1' 36''
15. MARTIN, Daniel + 1' 42''
Mrs John Murphy

HuwB wrote:
Quote:
Alberto Contador @albertocontador · Jul 23
Bad day,the wound healing gets complicated,I've no date to take the bike.Goodbye to the Vuelta.


Bullshit Bertie also winning the battle of the porkie pies.Wink
Chaves took a bit of a hit today.


He's been taking lessons from Nadal when it comes to bullshit and miraculous recoveries.

But it is a long line of bullshit and lies from him.
Biosphere

I was surprised that Contador didn't go sooner since Froome was seemingly hanging on the back of the group for at least a minute beforehand. Rodriguez looked a bit better than I expected.

So if one is tweeting about not being able to ride a bike and no date for getting back on it, is one less likely to be tested out of comp?
Bartali

Greatest bluff of the year .... very amusing.

Well I hope Froome can ITT because he no longer looks special in the hills.  The sec on grabbing over the last few days now loos desperate.

BTW ... I don't really hope Froome can ITT Wink
Bartali

Biosphere wrote:
I was surprised that Contador didn't go sooner since Froome was seemingly hanging on the back of the group for at least a minute beforehand. Rodriguez looked a bit better than I expected.

So if one is tweeting about not being able to ride a bike and no date for getting back on it, is one less likely to be tested out of comp?


Agreed.  I think he had words with Valverde as soon as Froome looked vulnerable.  Perhaps Valverde suggested caution ... not least because he couldn't go early.
HuwB

Posted by a Contador fan.

Laughing
Bartali

Hilarious

Liar liar pants on fire! Smile
mr shifter

HuwB wrote:
Quote:
Alberto Contador @albertocontador · Jul 23
Bad day,the wound healing gets complicated,I've no date to take the bike.Goodbye to the Vuelta.
 
I remember reading that, but on the ITV 4 highlights program Phil Ligget said a couple of stages ago that Contador's Leg wound was a Fractured Bone.
Not a broken bone at all, according to him.
Mrs John Murphy

Dertie knows he can come out with whatever bullshit he likes because no one in the media is ever going to question him and call him for it.
Fontfroide

I read ages ago that it was a fractured bone, not a broken one.  In l'Equipe I suppose.  I don't get the fuss.  Isn't it an expected that when things go badly professional athletes of any kind say it is OK, and when things go well, they say they are in trouble.  I mean isn't it normal that professionals in all fields, politics, banking, cycling lie or at least don't tell the truth when asked.  If Froome says he is "in fine shape and the numbers are there", do we think it is true?  They never tell the truth if they think it will help their opponents.

And actually, I am just like anyone.  I read that Europcar was setting loose Sicard to be leader of the team, and finally come through after years of disappointment.  He was supposed to be hot.  I put him on my Velogames team and so far he has scored zero points.  We will believe what we read?  Sadly often the case.  

As Bartali said, bluff of the year.  Except they all do this.  Nothing to get upset about.  A bluff is essentially a lie that the relevant people believe to be true.
Boogerd_Fan

I guess the real question is - who isn't bluffing??

We had Uran Uran try something with Martin at the bottom of the climb - clearly he wasnt feeling too good  cos he wasnt there at the end.

Froome for all the talk couldn't follow the relevant attacks today. Despite only positive soundbites so far.

ten Dam..unstuck by the changing weather (apparently), but probably he is feeling the Tour in his legs.

JRod low expectations in the press, but he is right up there.

Quintana - happy to be in the thick of the action "surviving" according to the interviews, but everyone knows it will take 1 decisive attack on the MTF in third week for this Vuelta to be over.
billgull

We have a lot of two things in our house: 1. A lot of cycling books.
2. A lot of medical books.

From one of the medical books:

Quote:

Fracture [L. fractura, break]. 1. A sudden breaking of a bone. 2. A
broken bone.

CAUSES: In certain diseases and conditions such as osteomalacia, syphilis,
and osteomyelitis, bones break spontaneously without trauma.

Direct violence: The bones is broken directly at the spot where the
force was applied, as in fracture of the tibia by being run over. Indirect
violence:
The bone is fractured by a force applied at a distance from the
site of fracture and transmitted to the fractured bone, as fracture of the
clavicle by falling on the outstretched hand. Muscular contraction: The
bone is broken by a sudden violent contraction of the muscle.

SIGNS: Loss of power of movement; pain with acute tenderness over the
site of fracture: swelling and bruising; deformity and possible shortening;
unnatural mobility; crepitus or grating that is heard when ends of the bone
rub together. Do not try to obtain these last two signs. Use roentgenog-
raphy to find the type of fracture and the exact positions of the bone
fragments

F.A.: In simple fractures, the limb or part must be kept immovable by
means of splints. If proper wooden, plastic, or metal splints are
unavailable, they may be improvised by using magazines or folded
newspapers. The clothing should not be removed unless there is dangerous
hemorrhage. If it is necessary to remove clothing, do so by cutting the
cloth away so as to disturb the area as little as possible.

If it is an upper extremity, it should be supported by a sling, and the
patient may then walk. If a lower limb is injured, the patient should
remain supine and make no attempt to walk.

TREAT: The physician will reduce the fracture, that is, place the fragments
in proper position. Keep the bone in position by means of a cast until
union has taken place. Then restore the limb to complete function by
physical therapy and exercise.

In compound fractures, any bleeding must be arrested before treating the
fracture. Open reduction may be required. The wound is then washed and
cleansed with sterile saline. If the area is grossly contaminated, mild soap
solution may be used provided it is thoroughly washed away by using
generous amounts of sterile saline. When the wound is quite clean, a
sterile dressing is secured by bandage. A cast is then applied as in simple
fractures.

Listed below are the various types of fractures (breaks):

1. avulsion, 2. bimalleolar, 3. blow-out, 4. boxer's, 5. clay shoveler's,
6. closed, 7. Colles', 8. comminuted, 9. complete, 10. complicated,
11. compound, 12. compression, 12. depressed, 13. diastatic, 14. direct,
15. dislocation, 16. double, 17. Duverney's, 18. epiphyseal, 19. fatigue
(or, stress), 20. fissured, 21. greenstick, 22. hairline, 23 hangman's,
24. impacted, 25. incomplete, 26. indirect, 27. intrauterine, 28. lead pipe,
29. LeFort, 30. march, 31. nonunion of, 32. open. 33. overriding,
34. pathologic, 35. Ping-Pong, 36. Pott's, 37. pretrochanteric, 38. Smith's,
39. spiral, 40.spontaneous, 41. stellate, 42. stress, 43.torus, 44. trans-
cervical, 45. transverse, 46. trimalleolar, and, 47. tripod.

Unquote.

I hope that this helps!

Please understand that a fracture is a break. A break is a fracture.
They are one in the same.
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
. . Well I hope Froome can ITT because he no longer looks special in the hills.  The sec on grabbing over the last few days now looks desperate. . .


Probably too early to say exactly what state he is in, and the weather yesterday may have been a factor. Suspect he knew he didn't have the legs yesterday, so the train on the front was a show of force to intimidate the others into saving themselves for his attack rather than trying anything themselves?

If he's building to be strong in the third week, then he may still come good. I suspect given that he's normally aggressive from the off though, he is not where he wants to be at the moment.
Mrs John Murphy

Biosphere wrote:
Bartali wrote:
. . Well I hope Froome can ITT because he no longer looks special in the hills.  The sec on grabbing over the last few days now looks desperate. . .


Probably too early to say exactly what state he is in, and the weather yesterday may have been a factor. Suspect he knew he didn't have the legs yesterday, so the train on the front was a show of force to intimidate the others into saving themselves for his attack rather than trying anything themselves?

If he's building to be strong in the third week, then he may still come good. I suspect given that he's normally aggressive from the off though, he is not where he wants to be at the moment.


The high pace may also have been an attempt to isolate others and to stop them going on the attack, the longer the high pace the hard it is for someone to attack from that group.
HuwB

The daily weather forecast:


Current race situation at the finish:
1. Cancellara 211 47' 13''
2. Kiryienka 195 + 47''
3. Sergent 216 + 1' 02''
4. Malori 157 + 1' 56''
5. Millar 107 + 2' 05''
Biosphere

Martin goes 11s faster for 47:02.
gerry12ie

Fabian finds something else to moan about...

Quote:
"It was not just hills, there were downhills, false flats but the asphalt was bad," he said.

"For the overall contenders I don't know what it will be like but this is how it is. I'd hoped they look for better roads. I did what I could and that was my goal. My only doubt was for my safety and I couldn't find my rhythm."
HuwB

Bertie giving everybody bar Piti a good kicking.
I'm not surprised given my fp.
Another excellent rest day in Spain.

Quintana down and possibility out!
Mrs John Murphy

Another miracle for Dertie
Biosphere

The old rest of two men miracle.

From the CN ticker, it doesn't sound good for Quintana.
mazda

Looks very technical.
I bet Froome isn't enjoying himself.
gerry12ie

Sounds exciting stuff.  Contador burning it up and Quintana on the deck...
Mrs John Murphy

At 11.2km

1. Contador 19' 29''
2. Valverde + 8''
3. Sánchez + 11''
4. Uran + 16''
5. Quintana + 20''
6. Coppel + 23''
7. Rodriguez + 27''
8. Froome + 28''
9. Navarro + 30''
10. Sicard + 31''
Mrs John Murphy

J-Rod out TTing Vroome. Only in Spain
Biosphere

Quintana screen grab

https://twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/506822512827990016

[img]https://mobile.twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/506822512827990016/photo/1[/img]
mazda

Uran leader at second checkpoint.
Is Sanchez the BMC variety ?
Biosphere

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
J-Rod out TTing Vroome. Only in Spain


Froome bottling it?
Mrs John Murphy

mazda wrote:
Uran leader at second checkpoint.
Is Sanchez the BMC variety ?


Yes. BMC Sanchez, not LL Sanchez
Mrs John Murphy

Biosphere wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:
J-Rod out TTing Vroome. Only in Spain


Froome bottling it?


Either that or J-Rod, Dertie and Piti spent yesterday hitting the bottles of special Red, Casa Fuentes vintage 2014.
mazda

Thanks - not showing him on TV.
48 seconds at finish for S. Sanchez.
That's pretty good whichever way you look at it.
mazda

Biosphere wrote:
Quintana screen grab

https://twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/506822512827990016

[img]https://mobile.twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/506822512827990016/photo/1[/img]


Didn't look quite that bad in real time.
It was more in the style of a controlled handstand than being flung about like a rag doll.

edit - he did land quite solidly though
gerry12ie

Uran back in the frame now, yes?
gerry12ie

Froome takes a whopping 17" out of Aero Master J-Rod? Shocked
Mrs John Murphy

Vroome loses a 1 min 17 to Uran at the finish
gerry12ie

Los amigos rolling Froome over again in Spain...
mazda

gerry12ie wrote:
Uran back in the frame now, yes?


Within a minute of Contador on GC.
Not sure if up to 3rd or 4th.
HuwB

Ugh, what a TT.
We are left with a Piti-Bertie two horse race.
At least Uran has clawed his way back into it,
but he'll not climb with that pair.
The thought of Piti wheel sucking Bertie for the best part of two weeks........
mazda

The big question is what will Movistar do now ?
Will they "let" Quintana try and make up the time ?

Valverde couldn't stay with Contador the other day, so will they insist Quintana drags Valverde up the remaining hills ?
Mrs John Murphy

mazda wrote:
The big question is what will Movistar do now ?
Will they "let" Quintana try and make up the time ?

Valverde couldn't stay with Contador the other day, so will they insist Quintana drags Valverde up the remaining hills ?


Yes

A very depressing GC


Classifications after stage 10

1. CONTADOR, Alberto
2. VALVERDE, Alejandro + 27''
3. URAN, Rigoberto + 59''
4. ANACONA, Winner + 1' 12''
5. FROOME, Christopher + 1' 18''
6. RODRIGUEZ, Joaquin + 1' 37''
7. SÁNCHEZ, Samuel + 1' 41''
8. ARU, Fabio + 2' 27''
9. GESINK, Robert + 2' 38''
10. CARUSO, Damiano + 2' 59''
11. QUINTANA, Nairo Alexander + 3' 25''
12. KELDERMAN, Wilco + 3' 29''
13. MARTIN, Daniel + 3' 48''
14. NIEVE, Mikel + 3' 50''
15. BARGUIL, Warren + 4' 11''
16. NAVARRO, Daniel + 4' 14''
17. MORENO, Daniel + 5' 49''
18. CHAVES RUBIO, Esteban + 6' 37''
19. MONFORT, Maxime + 6' 39''
20. PARDILLA, Sergio + 7' 37''
mazda

So I guess we're all hoping Uran, Sanchez or Aru can create some excitement ?
Fontfroide

mazda wrote:
So I guess we're all hoping Uran, Sanchez or Aru can create some excitement ?


Actually, while it is not a great result today, it is no problem being a bit optimistic about this GT.  I mean if we assume that Valverde and Contador can follow every single attack made by every single rider up every single big hill, then OK.  But who says they can?  Plenty of good climbers in this race.

Voila, there's me being optimistic again, but there are how many mountaintop finishes, and how many places where something might happen?
HuwB

Quintana has injured his ankle and says he'll try to help Valverde to finish on the podium now.
Fontfroide

HuwB wrote:
Quintana has injured his ankle and says he'll try to help Valverde to finish on the podium now.


Damn.  Assuming he is telling the truth and that they know what the effect will be.  Which we don't know, but will soon find out.
mazda

FF, Sicard finished 14, so maybe he is finding his legs ?
Boogerd_Fan

Quintana can still unleash hell.. he's not as far down as he was in the Giro... they should send him up the road early to force Tinkoff to do more work than they wanted and isolate Bertie early (yesterday he was already alone by the final climb)...

JRod is still in this too.. would've probably bitten hand off to be just 97 seconds down after TTT and ITT + 2 relatively "easy" MTFs
Biosphere

So Uran was upgraded to 2nd on the stage due to Cancellara receiving a penalty.

Quintana is blaming his brakes and wrenched his saddle off in the crash with his groin. Ouch. He seemed to be in better shape than might have been expected though. Still a pretty bad crash having seen footage, but yeah the screenshot made it look even worse. Suspect he will suffer on the climb tomorrow given its a tough one.
Mrs John Murphy

What was the penalty for? Moaning like an old biddy?
HuwB

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
What was the penalty for? Moaning like an old biddy?


Better than that, even.
Decided to make it a 2 up TT with his old mate Popovych. Smile
HuwB

Today's weather forecast:


Map:


The final climb details:


Alto de San Miguel de Aralar has never been used in professional cycling before. Seeing the road, you will understand why. Due to the poor road conditions, the city council has decided that no vehicle (bike, scooter, car etc.) is allowed to ride faster than 20 km/h up the climb. The cement surface is in very bad shape. It’s bumpy to ride on and there are numerous big cracks in the road. There have already been several accidents involving cycling tourists. Hopefully, there won’t be any misfortunes today.


From the photos on BR, the road appears to be in an awful state. Don't know why the organisers would feel that this is an acceptable challenge to include.
Mrs John Murphy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Quintana can still unleash hell.. he's not as far down as he was in the Giro... they should send him up the road early to force Tinkoff to do more work than they wanted and isolate Bertie early (yesterday he was already alone by the final climb)...

JRod is still in this too.. would've probably bitten hand off to be just 97 seconds down after TTT and ITT + 2 relatively "easy" MTFs


The best bet is that Quintana comes from the Contador school of injury reporting. Although in someways I'd rather he were actually injured and not a lying fuck like Dertie
SlowRower

HuwB wrote:
From the photos on BR, the road appears to be in an awful state. Don't know why the organisers would feel that this is an acceptable challenge to include.


There's not a huge amount that can go seriously wrong going uphill though for the main contenders, surely? Certainly nothing dangerous. It's not unreasonable to expect a pro rider to be able to dodge a few cracks in the road when riding slowly in a relatively small group. They'll have to take a view as to whether wheelsucking is worth the risk of not seeing a crack.

Could be tricky for the autobus, but if someone meaningful falls into a crack they presumably stop and wait for them.
Nolte

quintana has abandoned
mazda

He had a crash early in today's stage.
Initial reports from the Movistar team indicate that Quintana has injured his right shoulder.
HuwB

Like I said. Almost 2 weeks of Valverde ( and Rodriguez) following Contador's rear wheel around various Spanish mountains.
Tune in for the final km uphill sprints.
HuwB

Now it starts.
Maxime Bouet and Tibaut Pinot have abandoned
Boogerd_Fan

Bertie active in the early skirmishes today.. it seems he wants to strike while the iron is hot
gerry12ie

So the one main chance that went into this uninjured retires injured while the injured guy that had no chance is burning up the road. scratch
mazda

HuwB wrote:
Like I said. Almost 2 weeks of Valverde ( and Rodriguez) following Contador's rear wheel around various Spanish mountains.
Tune in for the final km uphill sprints.

Don't forget the intermediate sprints as well  Wink
kathy

Valverde looks on good form to me!
HuwB

LOL, here goes Aru again.
Second GT, will be just like the first.
Froome no longer the Dawg, but the Cat.
Used all 9 lives today.

The rest: Not a second between them, as predicted.
The Vuelta simply has to get rid of the bonus seconds.
5 more MTFs to follow this pattern.
mazda

I do hope something will happen next Monday.

Contador won't want to keep losing 10 seconds a day to Valverde.
Although I did read he said he'd be happy to take the red jersey back in the final TT.
gerry12ie

Vincenzo let Horner take too many of them little seconds last year and look what happened...
Biosphere

Watched as live late last night. Was amused by Froome being dropped by team mate. What goes around . . . Smile

Ironically, the Spanish crowds possibly did him a favour by hemming in Contador. If he can ride into form in 3rd week (as opposed to fading like his last 2 completed GTs), then he could still be a factor.

Hmmm, regarding wheel sucking and bonus seconds, I had thought the comment about contesting intermediate sprints was meant to be a touch satirical, but like Tony Blair winning Philanthropist of the Year it's all a bit blurry these days.

This made me laugh. Wonder what the Sauciers have on the menu in the third week Wink

mazda

GC has changed again - splits at the end ?
Will they stay ?

Code:
FRA  16 BARGUIL, Warren (GIANT-SHIMANO)                     + 41
BEL  17 DEBUSSCHERE, Jens (LOTTO BELISOL)                   + 42
ESP  18 SANCHEZ GONZALEZ, Samuel (BMC RACING)            
ESP  19 CONTADOR VELASCO, Alberto (TINKOFF-SAXO)        
IRL  20 MARTIN, Daniel (GARMIN SHARP)                    
GBR  21 FROOME, Christopher (SKY)                           + 46
ESP  22 VALVERDE BELMONTE, Alejandro (MOVISTAR)          
Mrs John Murphy

I am assuming that the Contador fans will accept that his victory is tainted and not worth the paper it is written on due to Quintana being injured, Nibali not racing, Froome not recovered, Horner not being there etc etc.

I mean all he's done is beat Valverde, a guy who couldn't even get on the podium in France.

Vinnie Nibs says hi by the way
HuwB

mazda wrote:
GC has changed again - splits at the end ?
Will they stay ?

Code:
FRA  16 BARGUIL, Warren (GIANT-SHIMANO)                     + 41
BEL  17 DEBUSSCHERE, Jens (LOTTO BELISOL)                   + 42
ESP  18 SANCHEZ GONZALEZ, Samuel (BMC RACING)            
ESP  19 CONTADOR VELASCO, Alberto (TINKOFF-SAXO)        
IRL  20 MARTIN, Daniel (GARMIN SHARP)                    
GBR  21 FROOME, Christopher (SKY)                           + 46
ESP  22 VALVERDE BELMONTE, Alejandro (MOVISTAR)          


The crash, I assume. If so, it will return to yesterday's standing.

As for the stage and crash. The undercard sprinters are having a mare.
Guardini, Perlucci etc, all in the last chance saloon, yet somehow manage to contrive a mass pile up on the dead straight run in, having got through all the technical stuff.

That stage design was totally unfit for GT purpose.
Nolte

the top 144 have been given the same time, after that, some have, some haven't.
gerry12ie

I see Betancur has jumped two places to 187th! Wink The fightback starts here...
Bartali

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Vinnie Nibs says hi by the way
Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
Biosphere

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
I am assuming that the Contador fans will accept that his victory is tainted and not worth the paper it is written on due to Quintana being injured, Nibali not racing, Froome not recovered, Horner not being there etc etc.

I mean all he's done is beat Valverde, a guy who couldn't even get on the podium in France.

Vinnie Nibs says hi by the way


If you've borrowed Smarauder's Vitreous Prognostication device and know the results a week and a half in advance,  any chance of letting us know who we should stick a fiver on for the 3:15 at Chepstow?  Wink
Bartali

Notwithstanding the mystic meg prediction, the overaching point is well made.  Nibali was inundated with questions and the press was full of comment devaluing his lead ... even though he had created a bigger lead than Berties before everyone fell off.  No disrespect to Bertie (its hardly his fault), but we do have a strangely skewed media who IMO are anti Italian and anti East European.
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Notwithstanding the mystic meg prediction, the overaching point is well made.  Nibali was inundated with questions and the press was full of comment devaluing his lead ... even though he had created a bigger lead than Berties before everyone fell off.  No disrespect to Bertie (its hardly his fault), but we do have a strangely skewed media who IMO are anti Italian and anti East European.


I think the differences in perception re Berto and Nibali may be due to the subtlety that Berto has shown dominant GT form (i.e. winning) pretty much from the start of his career, whereas Nibs has been good since his debut but only started dominating GTs 4 years later in his career than did Berto.

Thus, the perception is that Berto is a "better" rider than Nibs, with Nibs not quite good enough to win at the very highest level. So Berto winning is because he's good and that's what's expected, whereas Nibs winning must be due to something else. You should be thankful that the main "something else" picked on is the lack of opposition rather than the non-trivial improvement in relative performance levels since he joined Astana. Smile

You may be right about the Spanish vs Italian thing, but in my experience, Anglo journalists are fairly equitable with their dislike/distrust of Western Eurpoean Johnny Foreigners. South Americans and East Europeans are definitely lower down their scale, though.

One does wonder what those Spanish boys had on their rest day BBQs though. At least Horner wasn't around to invite.
mazda

Bartali wrote:
Notwithstanding the mystic meg prediction, the overaching point is well made.  Nibali was inundated with questions and the press was full of comment devaluing his lead ... even though he had created a bigger lead than Berties before everyone fell off.  No disrespect to Bertie (its hardly his fault), but we do have a strangely skewed media who IMO are anti Italian and anti East European.

I think you are overlooking the fact that the Tour De France is the only race of any importance. Evil or Very Mad
If Nibali was dominating the Vuelta then he wouldn't have got those questions.
Mrs John Murphy

Breakway:

Damien GAUDIN
Vegard BREEN
Jay Robert THOMSON
Jasper STUYVEN
Alexey LUTSENKO
Damiano CUNEGO
Stef CLEMENT
Danilo WYSS
Luis León SÁNCHEZ
Peter SAGAN
Paolo LONGO BORGHINI
mazda

Alexey LUTSENKO
Damiano CUNEGO
Damien GAUDIN
Danilo WYSS
Luis León SÁNCHEZ

Good move by BMC.
They have Gilbert if the break gets caught.

Commentary says OGE have got fed up with the lack of support and have stopped chasing.
mazda

Ah well, that didn't last long.
HuwB

The forgotten race. I didn't remember to fp, today, not that it would have mattered, with Navarro winning from Moreno.
Bouhanni an impressive 5th, but again out sprinted by Valverde. Smile
Fontfroide

And me, I missed it live.  Hard to fit in ordinary things when there is a holiday, a certain looseness or slack behaviour sets in, missing stages, missing picks.  Thank goodness for teams already picked for fantasy leagues.

Anyway, Monfils vs Federer on my feed for the Vuelta.  Hope I manage a pick tonight.  Couldn't even find a copy of l'Equipe in my small village.  Should have bought it before we set off.
mr shifter

Bartali wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Vinnie Nibs says hi by the way
Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
Thumb down  Thumb down  Thumb down  Basketball  bom
mr shifter

SlowRower wrote:
Bartali wrote:
Notwithstanding the mystic meg prediction, the overaching point is well made. (1) Nibali was inundated with questions and the press was full of comment devaluing his lead ... even though he had created a bigger lead than Berties before everyone fell off.  No disrespect to Bertie (its hardly his fault), but we do have a strangely skewed media who IMO are anti Italian and anti East European.
I think the differences in perception re Berto and Nibali may be due to the subtlety that Berto has shown dominant GT form (i.e. winning) pretty much from the start of his career, (2)whereas Nibs has been good since his debut but only started dominating GTs 4 years later in his career than did Berto.

Thus, the perception is that Berto is a "better" rider than Nibs, with Nibs not quite good enough to win at the very highest level. So Berto winning is because he's good and that's what's expected, whereas Nibs winning must be due to something else. You should be thankful that the main "something else" picked on is the lack of opposition rather than the non-trivial improvement in relative performance levels since he joined Astana. Smile

You may be right about the Spanish vs Italian thing, but in my experience, Anglo journalists are fairly equitable with their dislike/distrust of Western Eurpoean Johnny Foreigners. South Americans and East Europeans are definitely lower down their scale, though.

One does wonder what those Spanish boys had on their rest day BBQs though. At least Horner wasn't around to invite.
(1) I don't think the Press watched the same TDF race that I did or better still they didn't understand the Strategy being employed there, about putting pressure on the Favourites before the mountains.
It was beautiful to watch in the last few miles of stage 2 that Vincenzo Nibali attacked and won the stage by a couple of seconds to put a little pressure on his rivals. (well just enough to make them think)
When on stage 5 they became more conscious of this pressure in the rain  and then he attacked again in such style and bike handling to finish the stage with 2 minutes plus on his main rivals. No they can't let him gain more time before the mountains, so that is a bit more worry to play on their minds (pressure) and the rest is now history.

(I have to remind you that I am a least favourite of Vinokourov since his days at that shithouse Team Deutsche Telekom and this forum didn't agree with me till he was proved to be another scumbag)

(2) A rider with talent can mature with experience and become one of the Great Champions and I watched Alberto Contador early in his career as a pretty good time trialist and mountain climber in his 4 years at Team ONCE.
He only became a GT winner as a member of Team Discovery Channel and again more GT wins as an Astana team member.

Vincenzo Nibali is only a couple of years younger than Contador and both now ride on teams with dubious connections but it will be interesting to see them fighting for the same GT prize.
IMO - Forget the Dauphine as Nibali was only there to gauge his form and not to put the limelight on himself by winning it.

Be Lucky

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