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CapeRoadie

I'm Buying Wheels (Again) Advice Needed

Hey, I need some advice.  I need a pair of wheels for my cross bike.  I'm tired of pinch flats on clinchers, so I'm making the switch to tubulars.

Someone is selling a pair of wheels they built up as follows:

Velocity Escape rims (22 mm deep, semi-aero) with 32-hole Sun/Hugi European front hub and 32-hole DT Hugi 240 rear with DT 14/15 competition spokes, DT alloy nipples. The cross 3 drive side spokes are tied and soldered to DT specs. Radial non-drive side. Cross 2 front.

Any idea what these are worth?
CapeRoadie

Okay, responding to self.  I bought the pair on e-Bay for about $500.  They came with sew-ups by Andre Dugast and the seller threw in an extra tire.  The tires are worth $300 total.  The hubs retail for about $350-plus and the rims maybe $100 for the pair.  Plus 32 spokes.  So if I had to re-build them for whatever reason, apparently I'm still ahead.  The seller lives in South Dakota and actually phoned me at my office this a.m. to answer any questions I might have.  Pretty cool guy, and is a bike shop owner getting rid of some of his special things.  He is a fan of Sheldon Brown, so I knew he must be "one of the good ones".  I think I did okay.  Here they are:













last km

No excuses with those underneath you Cape........
CapeRoadie

last km wrote:
No excuses with those underneath you Cape........


No excuses anyway, right?!  He's shipping them today, should be here in time for my race next Sunday.  I'm looking forward to a softer ride, since last year I was often riding at 65-70 psi (ouch!) instead of the 30-40 I should have been in order to avoid the pinch flat.  I am selling a pair of 2007 Kysrium SL silver anodized race wheels (bladed spokes) in order to pay for these.  Hopefully I'll make a profit.  My wheels for sale look like this:

Bartali

You jammy bugger Cape!  Absolute bargin - Dugast tubs are the business.  Firm has changed hands recently but, alomg with FMB(?) still the best tubs out there.  Never tried cross tubs - used road tubs in the bad old days), but have Dugast tubs on my fixed.  Excellent!  Rest of the wheel set not bad either!
CapeRoadie

e-Bay at 11:59 p.m. last night in a bidding war while nearly comatose -- dangerous!  Am soooo looking forward to the riding, and the racing!
Bartali

Didn't realise cross tyres would be as low as 30-40 psi.  Seems crazy low to me ... almost flat!  

Have fun in the mud!!
CapeRoadie

Bartali wrote:
Didn't realise cross tyres would be as low as 30-40 psi.  Seems crazy low to me ... almost flat!  

Have fun in the mud!!


That was the mistake I made last year because I didn't understand how much pain riding cross on fully inflated tires would be.  I just bought a 'cross bike and raced it.  This year I have a coach (sorry, happa), and he said you "should feel like you're riding on the rims every once in a while".  And you actually ARE riding on the rims.  I have to tell you, Bartali, it's a hell of a lot smoother ride when you're riding 40 as opposed to 65-80, where these tires max out psi.  You might do more (50) on less bumpy surfaces, less (30) in rough terrain or rain/mud conditions.  But riding full pressure last year must have aged me prematurely or something.

I'm looking forward to the cross season, which has been delayed by a low back muscle tear.  Am healing well, however it does definitely SUCK since I was already injured in June/July..
forza_petacchi

Whatever you do, never buy Bontragers.  We sell them at the shop and they suck.  Flanges and hubs crack much more often than they do on any brand we sell, especially Mavic (Mavic is great).
CapeRoadie

forza_petacchi wrote:
Whatever you do, never buy Bontragers.  We sell them at the shop and they suck.  Flanges and hubs crack much more often than they do on any brand we sell, especially Mavic (Mavic is great).


Interesting because I've had Mavic's rims crack around the spoke nipples on numerous occasions, yet every Bontrager product I've ever owned has been excellent.  I use Bontrager bars, seat posts, forks, stems, wheels and saddles.  All excellent.  Well, these wheels are built up from scratch and so I should be okay.
forza_petacchi

Are those aftermarket parts or the ones that came with your Madone?
CapeRoadie

forza_petacchi wrote:
Are those aftermarket parts or the ones that came with your Madone?


Both.
forza_petacchi

Hmm....I had a pair or Race wheels that came with my road bike, and tbh they weren't very good, especially compared with the Aksium Race set I have now.  My fork (Bontrager carbon) is pretty solid.  The previous owner replaced the stem with a 90mm Specialized that is stiff but definitely too short for my riding style.  The Race Lite Bars have a bit a flex to them, which is mildly disconcerting.  My Race X Lite carbon seatpost is good, but I think I'm going to buy a new one (namely the Thomson Elite, which is very strong and crazy light for an alloy post).  Remind me, which Madone did you get?
CapeRoadie

forza_petacchi wrote:
Hmm....I had a pair or Race wheels that came with my road bike, and tbh they weren't very good, especially compared with the Aksium Race set I have now.  My fork (Bontrager carbon) is pretty solid.  The previous owner replaced the stem with a 90mm Specialized that is stiff but definitely too short for my riding style.  The Race Lite Bars have a bit a flex to them, which is mildly disconcerting.  My Race X Lite carbon seatpost is good, but I think I'm going to buy a new one (namely the Thomson Elite, which is very strong and crazy light for an alloy post).  Remind me, which Madone did you get?


The 6.9, not the pro frame (which would have needed spacers, whereas the non-pro frame fits perfectly).  I already had a Dura-Ace groupset and was running Mavic Ksyrium SSL wheels.  Now using the Mavics for 'cross and either hand-built carbon wheels (DT Swiss 210 hubs, round DT spokes and Zipp rims) or Fulcrum Race One's.
forza_petacchi

How do you like the seatmast system?  Personally I think it's BS because they basically reversed the seatpost/seattube idea, so it's not a true seatmast.
CapeRoadie

forza_petacchi wrote:
How do you like the seatmast system?  Personally I think it's BS because they basically reversed the seatpost/seattube idea, so it's not a true seatmast.


Love it.  Stiffer, stronger, but comfy.
berck

CapeRoadie wrote:
forza_petacchi wrote:
Whatever you do, never buy Bontragers.  We sell them at the shop and they suck.  Flanges and hubs crack much more often than they do on any brand we sell, especially Mavic (Mavic is great).


Interesting because I've had Mavic's rims crack around the spoke nipples on numerous occasions, yet every Bontrager product I've ever owned has been excellent.  I use Bontrager bars, seat posts, forks, stems, wheels and saddles.  All excellent.  Well, these wheels are built up from scratch and so I should be okay.


I've had nothing by problems with my Bontrager wheels. With my first carbon Trek 5200 (2002), I had the rear wheel rebuilt two times until I gave up. I had replaced these wheels with Mavic SSL's. I got them in a bad year for spokes. Had four spokes break in the first year. Wheels got sent back twice for repair. Were and have been fine after the second time. I sold these wheels to a friend,  and they have worked great for him since.

With Madone 5.2SL (2007), The hub bearing went bad and the wheel was constantly going out of true. They gave me a new wheel. After a month, it went out of true too. I replaced these wheels with Mavic ES's. I've had one spoke break since I've had them. I've put on about 5,000 miles on these wheels without any other issues. Still true too.
CapeRoadie

Well, I've never ridden Bontrager wheels.  As soon as I got my old Trek 5200 (2004 model), I replaced the wheels with faster, lighter ones.  When I sold the 5200, I simply put them back on.  They looked like new.  With my XO1 cyclocross (Trek 2008) bike, I also removed the Bontrager wheels and they are also as new.  So, I can't tell you about Bontrager wheels really.  I imagine you get what you pay for.  I have heard that the Bontrager Race XXX Lite wheels are excellent.  I think their aftermarket parts are among the best, maybe THE best.
berck

I can't vouch for Race XXX Lite wheels. All the wheels I've used have been Race Lite wheels. When they replaced my last rear wheel, the newer Race Lite wheel was based on the year previous model of Race X Lite. I was excited about that and that the wheel looked nicer too. I was sorely disappointed with it as I rode it.

I haven't had any problems with other Bontrager parts except for the saddle stem. It doesn't seem to want to keep the saddle locked in place properly. I have to reset the saddle position every few months because its moved around.
forza_petacchi

Sorry to take this off-topic but does anyone have recommendations for clip-on aero bars?  Rex (the asst. Manager) ordered a bunch of Profile Design T2+ sets and I'm probably going to buy one.
last km

forza_petacchi wrote:
Sorry to take this off-topic but does anyone have recommendations for clip-on aero bars?  Rex (the asst. Manager) ordered a bunch of Profile Design T2+ sets and I'm probably going to buy one.


The best advice I can give you fp is make sure they have decent size bolts/clamps for fastening them to your handle bars, some of the cheaper ones work loose, which is annoying, especially in a race (ITT).
CapeRoadie

I have read many stories about how the Profile Design bolts either break or come loose during races.  I personally think Profile design is crap.  Everything I have tried by them (clip-on aero bars, bottle cages) was designed poorly and broke.  But other people love their stuff and have had no problems with loose bolts.  My advice:  use Loctite (the blue stuff) to make sure the bolts don't come loose, whatever model of aerobars you choose.


Be careful of VisonTech as well... many product recalls.  Haven't heard much about the Zipp clip-ons, but I like that company.  Syntace makes a few different models, and I've heard they're okay, but bolts come loose.
berck

I bought some Profile Design aero bars a few years back. I can attest to what Cape has said. The bolts do come loose. But never both at the same time. They worked fine for me, but you'll need to check the bolts once a month to make sure they are tight. I never had one break though.

I do also agree with Cape about Profile Design products. I haven't had much luck with their other stuff. Their bar tape wears out twice as fast as Cinelli tape.
Bartali

forza_petacchi wrote:
Sorry to take this off-topic but does anyone have recommendations for clip-on aero bars?  Rex (the asst. Manager) ordered a bunch of Profile Design T2+ sets and I'm probably going to buy one.


Forza - If I were you, I would check out weight weenies for advice like this.  Guys on that forum have ridden everything there is to ride ...

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/search.php?mode=results
forza_petacchi

That's funny.  I have a friend who has the bottom-of-the-line PD bars (the Century) and he rode them halfway cross-country (he bought them in Kansas) without any problems.
CapeRoadie

forza_petacchi wrote:
That's funny.  I have a friend who has the bottom-of-the-line PD bars (the Century) and he rode them halfway cross-country (he bought them in Kansas) without any problems.


As I said, some people have had good luck with them.  A high level U23 stage racer/TTer I know thinks PD is just fine.  I'll tell you this, though:

If you're using carbon bars, switch to aluminum bars when adding clip-on aero bars, or you risk catastrophe!
forza_petacchi

The mere idea of carbon bars scares me.  I'll stick to alloy stems as well.
Bartali

Oh yea of little faith!
forza_petacchi

Bartali wrote:
Oh yea of little faith!

What kind are you running on your bike?  (It's a Parlee, right?)
Bartali

Its a Parlee Z3sl with Schmolke carbon bars and a extralite (non-carbon) stem.
CapeRoadie

We will pray for him, fp.
Bartali

I'll take all the prayers I can get, but I've never heard of a Schmolke bar break!
paperman

I use a carbon bar too and no worries.
chasm

If carbon is OK for seat posts, I don't see why bars should be a worry.
Bartali

Chas .... they'll be singing the virtues of down tube shifters and 5 speed cassettes before we know it Wink
forza_petacchi

Downtube shifters are actually lighter than Flight Deck.  We have a poster at the shop of Lance using a downtube shifter for the front on a mountain stage in 2005.
forza_petacchi

CapeRoadie wrote:
We will pray for him, fp.

Do you mean my friend?  He finished a month and a half ago!  He did about 4300 miles Shocked in 2 months. Shocked  Shocked
CapeRoadie

chasm wrote:
If carbon is OK for seat posts, I don't see why bars should be a worry.


SNAP goes the seat post!
berck

chasm wrote:
If carbon is OK for seat posts, I don't see why bars should be a worry.


I've had a friend break one of those carbon seat posts. One reason I stay away from anything with zertz inserted in them.
forza_petacchi

CapeRoadie wrote:
chasm wrote:
If carbon is OK for seat posts, I don't see why bars should be a worry.


SNAP goes the seat post!

What happens more frequently with carbon posts that have alloy clamps is that the glue holding them together will separate.  The carbon rarely cracks.
paperman

Right I'm going back to steel so!!!!!! Colnago master X light, a total rip off but there you go.!! The bianchi dolomiti is nice too, as is the kona kapu, both of which I reckon are the same frame from the same very asian factory. Both a bit expensive, then fashion always was I suppose.
Bartali

Well they say steel is real!

The master xlight in the Saronni colurs is gorgeous!  Yeah ... I know I'm biased!
paperman

This bias you could be left off for because you're right, it is gorgeous. Colnago have some really nice paint schemes. I'd be tempted but must first get rid of two bikes to make way for it, not sure herself would be to pleased then again it is almost christmas.!!!
CapeRoadie

paperman wrote:
This bias you could be left off for because you're right, it is gorgeous. Colnago have some really nice paint schemes. I'd be tempted but must first get rid of two bikes to make way for it, not sure herself would be to pleased then again it is almost christmas.!!!


Have you looked into Independent Fabrications?  They're doing good things with steel.
paperman

CapeRoadie wrote:
paperman wrote:
This bias you could be left off for because you're right, it is gorgeous. Colnago have some really nice paint schemes. I'd be tempted but must first get rid of two bikes to make way for it, not sure herself would be to pleased then again it is almost christmas.!!!


Have you looked into Independent Fabrications?  They're doing good things with steel.


No Cape, never heard of them. I'll do a search for them but any more info or links you have would be welcome....cheers.
headwind

Id also look into Richard Sachs who does fabu work in  steel and the paint is by Joe Bell.

http://www.richardsachs.com/


Also, a friend of mine has a De Rosa Neoprimato (I rode with him in Belgium and on the Roubaix course---last half of the pave sectors) and he absolutely loves it. Incredible steel frame.

hw
paperman

Thanks looked at richardsachs site HW and Cape, I looked up independent fabrications, I probably should not have done so!!!!.  Both make some beautiful looking frames.
Bro Deal

headwind wrote:
Id also look into Richard Sachs who does fabu work in  steel and the paint is by Joe Bell.

http://www.richardsachs.com/


What is the waiting list for Sachs these days?  Last I heard it was more than six years.
Jeff Malkmus

Or try Tom Kellog at Spectrum:

http://spectrum-cycles.com/
sheeponabike

paperman wrote:
Right I'm going back to steel so!!!!!!

I'm interested in this paperman, so keep us up to date and post pics if poss
CapeRoadie

me too, waiting for follow-up...
last km

guihuomao

go back to the asylum where you belong......you piece of excrement
thunderthighs

a slick ride.. Cervelo..all joke aside.. ciao
MAILLOT JAUNE

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