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Mrs John Murphy

Heinrich Haussler and other riders who disappointed

Now, here is a rider who seemed to just fall off the edge of the earth, so the question is why. It seems he was never the same after Frodo deliberately took him out in a sprint.

But his 2009 performance and then everything after suggests a rider who for whatever reason has never reached those heights again.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why someone can suddenly 'lose' it like HH did.

2009
   1st Stage 13 Tour de France

       Stage 13 Combativity award

   Volta ao Algarve

       1st Stages 1 & 5

   1st Stage 2 Paris Nice
   1st GP Triberg-Schwarzwald
   1st Stage 5 Tour du Poitou-Charentes
   2nd Milan – San Remo
   2nd Ronde van Vlaanderen
   2nd Neuseen Classics
   2nd Overall Tour of Qatar

       Sprints classification
       Young rider classification

   3rd Grosser Preis des Kantons Aargau
   4th Dwars door Vlaanderen
   4th Sparkassen Giro Bochum
   7th Paris–Roubaix
   8th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad

2010

   1st Stage 2 Tour de Suisse
    Sprints classification Tour of Qatar
   2nd Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
   3rd Grosser Preis des Kantons Aargau

2011
    1st Stage 2 Tour of Beijing
    Points classification Paris–Nice
   2nd Overall Tour of Qatar

       1st Stages 2 & 3
        Points classification


2012
   3rd GP Ouest-France
   4th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
   7th Vattenfall Cyclassics
2013
   1st Stage 5 Bayern-Rundfahrt
   4th Gent–Wevelgem
   4th Paris–Bourges
   6th Tour of Flanders
   6th Paris–Tours
2014
   1st Stage 1 Bayern-Rundfahrt
   3rd Grand Prix d'Isbergues
2015
   1st MaillotAustralia.PNG National Road Race Championships
   5th People's Choice Classic
   8th Overall Tour of Qatar
   10th Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race
gerry12ie

Well he is Aussie champ, and 8th overall at Qatar ain't too shabby.  He isn't the only sprinter/classic man to show heaps of promise in recent years and not deliver though, see EBH, Tyler, even Renshaw.  Injuries can take a horrible toll, and when a rider isn't at a top team they possibly don't get the support they might do elsewhere - and he did get broken up a few times...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/featur...or-iam-cyclings-heinrich-haussler
Mrs John Murphy

It is certainly true that there are a lot of riders who seem destined to win a lot and then just fall off the edge.

The thing about HH is that he had such a good 2009 and he's never reached those levels again.

Maybe we should devote a thread to the 'moderately disappointing riders'
Bartali

If we do, please can it exclude EBH on the grounds that he's hugely disappointing!
Boogerd_Fan

After such a success in 2009, he would be heavily marked in subsequent years.

It's no logical reason for the last 6 years of barren palmares, but explains why he wasn't so prolific immediately after 2009.
Mrs John Murphy

Amended the title.

This is the crash I was talking about which was the 2010 TDS.


Link


That crash seemed to set him back and he's never been the same since.

Fucking Frodo a dangerous cheating little shit.
SlowRower

Mjm - do you really think he caused the crash deliberately? If so, what do you think his plan was to avoid injury himself given that if you force someone off their bike at that speed you're almost certain to crash yourself?

See Stage 1 of last year's Tour for a similar example of Cav getting under the wheel of another rider. Hitting the deck at that speed is something of a lottery which Cav lost that day!
Mrs John Murphy

That the riders held a protest against Frodo the next day says it all.

He took out HH because he was going to lose. Renshaw was happy to headbutt someone while winding up a sprint. Whatever roids they were feeding them at Columbia fucked them up good and proper when it came to racing in a rational manner.

Frodo deliberately took out HH and injured another rider. That was no accident.
Biosphere

They converged on each other. Posted this at the time.



Cavendish got under Haussler's front wheel or Haussler rode over Cavendish's front wheel. Take your pick.

SlowRower

Mrs John Murphy wrote:

He took out HH because he was going to lose.

Frodo deliberately took out HH and injured another rider. That was no accident.


So you're saying Cav deliberately caused a crash in which he hit the deck at 70kmh and got himself run over twice?

Seems a bit unlikely that anyone would initiate a crash guaranteed to include himself, but you seem pretty sure of your mind-reading skills so I doubt you're going to change your mind. Do your mind reading skills extend as far as knowing what Cav was thinking would happen to him as a result? Even folk as thick as you think Cav is know that hips, heads, collarbones and tarmac don't mix very well.
Mrs John Murphy

Rolling Eyes  Yes but that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread which is riders who've disappointed. If you want to start a Frodo is the victim of character assassination then knock yourself out.

The discussion started with HH whose drop in form stems from the injuries he sustained in the crash.

Now, if you have something to say about HH, EBH or any other riders who've never quite been the riders we expected them to be then go for it.

My guess is that if the rider isn't British or Armstrong they don't count in your eyes.

####

Back to the topic in hand.

A lot of the riders who look good and then fall off seem to be sprinters, but there are a few climbers as well.

Going back a few years - one guy who I liked but seemed to vanish - Peter Luttenberger.

Another guy who fell off the radar - Cobo. Wins the Vuelta with Geox, signs for Movistar and doesn't win anything for 2 years.
gerry12ie

That's not the first time we have put the words Cobo and radar in the same sentence...
Mrs John Murphy

gerry12ie wrote:
That's not the first time we have put the words Cobo and radar in the same sentence...


LOL. The funny thing is - he was riding for Movistar who had Piti and a host of other radioactive riders on their books. So it's not like Movistar are a bread and water team.

MTN seem to be the all disappointing roster with Farrar, Ciolek and EBH.
gerry12ie

Ciolek's reaction yesterday to the crash on the Poggio at least suggests he cares, he did win it a couple of years ago and obviously fancied his chances yesterday as he was well pissed off when he went down
SlowRower

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
If you want to start a Frodo is the victim of character assassination then knock yourself out.


You inserted Cav into the discussion by accusing him of deliberately causing the crash and referring to him as "f***ing cheating sh*t" before I'd even read the thread.

If you don't want to discuss a subject then don't post about it to start with.

I don't think Cav was being victimised. I just think you were posting b*llocks about him with an accusation that even by your elevated standards was somewhat fanciful.
Mrs John Murphy

In a discussion about the drop in HH's form the cause of the injury was going to be discussed.

Oh, by the way, Daryl Impey says hello. Remember that? Thought not. Goes to show that your claim that no rider would cause an accident deliberately is bollocks. But I guess because it didn't involve Armstrong or a Brit you never noticed.

Funny how you ignored the rider protest against Frodo on the next stage as well.

You'd be on much stronger ground arguing if you actually watched some racing.

####

Ciolek is a funny one. When he was at Milram he was talked about as the next Zabel, but he seemed to be one of those riders who fell in between. Not really fast enough to win bunch sprints, but not strong enough to get into breaks. God knows how many times I FP'd him and he never appeared.

Other disappointing riders - Roman Kreuziger, Robert Gesink.
gerry12ie

Kiserlovski
gerry12ie

Ahem - Nico Roche

...speaking of which - he interviewed with Kimmage yesterday and interesting on the subject of weight loss, TUEs and Tramadol.  Something tells me Nico didn't clear the interview with daddy first.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/o...on-and-off-the-bike-31085204.html
Mrs John Murphy

I did think of Kiserlovski as well.

With a few it seems that when they change teams they seem to struggle.

Would Nico be considered to have disappointed if his name wasn't Roche?
mazda

SlowRower wrote:
Mjm - do you really think he caused the crash deliberately? If so, what do you think his plan was to avoid injury himself given that if you force someone off their bike at that speed you're almost certain to crash yourself?

See Stage 1 of last year's Tour for a similar example of Cav getting under the wheel of another rider. Hitting the deck at that speed is something of a lottery which Cav lost that day!

I think that is Cav taking the same approach as Nico Rosberg did at Spa.
In other words put yourself in a position to cause a crash unless other person concedes.
It is trying to establish a pattern such that the other participant will alter their future behaviour to your advantage.
Rosberg felt it was justified given Hamilton's earlier manoeuvres in the season.
Cav was probably equally fed up.
Planning what might happen to yourself doesn't really come into it.
HuwB

OK......
Martijn Maaskant.
4th in both the Strade Bianche and Paris-Roubaix at 25.
Tipped for the top, hit the bottom. Retired at 31.

Currently active? Smile  Matt Goss.
Mrs John Murphy

Also on MTN Smile

What do you think went wrong with Masskant?
Boogerd_Fan

I agree to an extent with Gesink.

He should have targetted week long races and the Ardennes.. instead he focused on GT's and can make top 10 if he is lucky and doesnt have an off day.

Sadly the latter are becoming quite frequent. Very stop-start last few years thanks to knee problems and obviously the health of his family too.
Bartali

Bennati .... not sure he qualifies, but he's never been the same after 2008.
Mrs John Murphy

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
I agree to an extent with Gesink.

He should have targetted week long races and the Ardennes.. instead he focused on GT's and can make top 10 if he is lucky and doesnt have an off day.

Sadly the latter are becoming quite frequent. Very stop-start last few years thanks to knee problems and obviously the health of his family too.


Do you think that is perhaps to do with the Rabo management because it seems that they never really took the classics that seriously. They always seemed to have plenty of riders who should have done well but they never seemed to perform there.

Bartali wrote:
Bennati .... not sure he qualifies, but he's never been the same after 2008.


He always seemed to be injured.
HuwB

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Also on MTN Smile

What do you think went wrong with Masskant?


The Garmin magic wore off. Wink

I'd now like to nominate the entire Tinkoff team, or rather Oleg would.
He's just suspended Riis for lack of results. Embarassed
Nolte

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Also on MTN Smile


yes, it seems mtn's hiring policy Very Happy

i think farrar's biggest problem is fear, if i recall his father had an accident and then he was also very good friend and training partner to wouter weylandt so i think tthat has had a psychologically effect on him and so the dangers of sprints make him less inclined to get involved.

ciolek would have been another one and that was the reason mtn had signed him 2 years ago as he was disappointed with omega pharma

speaking of germans, linus gerdemann, strong with csc and htc/columbia and then nothing, 2013 no contract 2014 mtn and now cult energy systems

Quote:
What do you think went wrong with Masskant?


i wonder if some of it is a problem with the rabo continental structure, i see in 1.2 and 2.2 races, they are very strong and its not yet converted to the professional ranks apart from to an extent bauke mollema and lesser of robert gesink.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
I did think of Kiserlovski as well.

With a few it seems that when they change teams they seem to struggle.

Would Nico be considered to have disappointed if his name wasn't Roche?


i don't think it was with nicholas roche as he didn't have a good amateur career prior to turning pro with cofidis, in his first season, his best result was 10th in gp d'isbergues, and in his second 4th in tour de vendee behind jonas ljungblad. in 2007, he showed some good signs with 10th overall and a stage in in l'Avenir

it wasn't until 2008 when he was 23/24 that he started showing prospects really. i recall from his amateur early pro years that philip deignan had shown some better prospects than roche.
HuwB

Has anyone put a mention in for Janez Brajkovic yet?

MTN: The last chance saloon for second rate sprinters.
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
Has anyone put a mention in for Janez Brajkovic yet?


The Discovery magic wore off.

Thought you were joking about Riis last night  Embarassed
gerry12ie

Tinkov is a nutjob.  

I'll try Peter Velits...
gerry12ie

I wonder was part of the problem that some of these riders were over-raced?  I noted that Matthews only started his season at Paris-Nice (winning a stage and the points), went fresh to MSR for a podium finish, and is now taking two weeks off until Pais Vasco...

Quote:
Of Pais Vasco, White said: “There is one stage where we have won the last three years in a row – into Vitoria. It has his name written all over it.”


The remainder of his season looks very specifically targeted, and maybe that is the best way to look after young riders?

Quote:
Matthews is then due to race Flèche Brabançonne (April 15) where he was second last year behind Philippe Gilbert (BMC) and the Amstel Gold Race (April 19), followed by the Giro d’Italia (May 9-June 1) in which he won stage 6 and wore the overall leader’s pink jersey for six days last year.

But the purpose of the Giro, said White, will be to use it as preparation for the Tour.


In fairness to him, he looks the real deal already.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/w...s-a-future-green-jersey-contender
Mrs John Murphy

Biosphere wrote:
HuwB wrote:
Has anyone put a mention in for Janez Brajkovic yet?


The Discovery magic wore off.

Thought you were joking about Riis last night  Embarassed


JB always seemed to be given the job of towing Johan's chosen Anglophone carthorse around Italy/France/Spain.

Gerry - If over-racing is the problem with some - how do we explain Andy Schleck?
Nolte

over-crashing?
SlowRower

mazda wrote:
I think that is Cav taking the same approach as Nico Rosberg did at Spa.

In other words put yourself in a position to cause a crash unless other person concedes.

It is trying to establish a pattern such that the other participant will alter their future behaviour to your advantage.


There's definitely an element of playing chicken in bunch sprints. I'd say that Cav caused that crash, if only because HH was going parallel to the barriers and Cav was going at a slight angle. Neither rider came of their line as such, they just maintained their different lines in the hope/expectation that the other would give way. I certainly wouldn't argue that Cav can be a bit dangerous at time, but as a result of aggression aimed at "persuading" the other rider to back off rather than to take them out.

There is just no logical reason for Cav to decide to take HH down by getting under his wheel, guranteeing Cav hitting the deck as well, given the random nature of what happens when you hit the deck at speed. The chances of a season-ending injury are just too high. AFAIK, Cav has been involved in two such crashes (i.e. getting under a rival's wheel) and has a 50% record of writing off his season.
Mrs John Murphy

Nolte wrote:
over-crashing?


Which takes me onto Igor Anton  Sad
Mrs John Murphy

Kevin Seeldraeyers  -What went wrong?

2009 - 14th in the Giro, wearer of white. 7th in PN and then his next best result is 3rd in the Tour of Austria in 2013.

Now riding for Wanty-Groupe Gobert
Nolte

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Kevin Seeldraeyers  -What went wrong?

2009 - 14th in the Giro, wearer of white. 7th in PN and then his next best result is 3rd in the Tour of Austria in 2013.

Now riding for Wanty-Groupe Gobert


this season he's moved to the torku squad, his best result being 10th in tour of morocco
gerry12ie

Seeldraeyers is good one alright.  I think he might be a little like Tommy de Gendt as I remember reading somewhere he wasn't overly diligent about his diet and training.  AFAAIK he still lives in the town he was born in and his wife is local, so maybe he just didn't have a stack of ambition?
Mrs John Murphy

I guess if he is happy who can blame him, but he is someone who I remember people having high hopes for.
Nolte

not quite on this as a rider that disappointed but on the topic of over racing

i see louis meintjes raced 91 days this year, a total of 14,524 km of racing. at 23 years old this seems a lot for a young rider. the longest lay off for him was from the tour de france (when he abandoned due to i think gastroentitritus on stage 18 ) to the arctic race of norway.

he is also joining lampre next year, announced at the start of september

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