Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling
 


       justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> Dr.Fuentes Consulting Room
Nolte

Heart rate monitoring

in march, i bought a heart rate monitor which also doubles as a speedometer. on sunday i fitted it all.

i tried it out on a short cycle on sunday, my conclusion is that very early on i reached 96% (186 bpm) which i don't think is a good sign. i was thinking i wonder what would happen if i went at 101% oif my heart rate

i tried to settle my effort after i spent the first half of the cycle hearing a constant buzzing noise emanating from the monitor. it was a 25 minute spin, the first 10 or 11 minutes, i was above 160 which caused the beeping noise . in the second 14 minutes, i only spent about 3 over 160

anyone have advice for maximising my effort
Bartali

How did you calculate your max HR?  220-age is what I use, but it is only approx.  Better way is to ride to you burst!  Cape will tell you more.
CapeRoadie

Do a 20-minute ITT and get a good warm-up to figure lactate threshold.  For HR max, just warm-up for 15-30 minutes, then go balls out all out for 30-60 seconds.  You'll max out.
berck

I've been able to hit 20 points higher than the formula for my age. For safety sakes, I use the number 10 points higher than my age. I have no problems recovering from a 95% effort on a hill climb.

I have a friend that's five years younger, and we use a number five points below mine. I still can't figure out if its physiological for him or not. He seems to have trouble pushing himself at higher HR's, but recovers fine.
chasm

CapeRoadie wrote:
Do a 20-minute ITT and get a good warm-up to figure lactate threshold.  For HR max, just warm-up for 15-30 minutes, then go balls out all out for 30-60 seconds.  You'll max out.


Your warm-ups must be more strenuous than mine. Going flat out for 60 seconds doesn't get my HR to max out. Repeated intervals up hills do it for me, highest recent recorded HR 186 - which is 19 bpm higher than my theoretical max on the 220 minus age formula.

On a typical training ride I'll spend more than half the time in zones 1 and 2 (50% to 70% of max HR), maybe 20% in zone 3 (70 - 80%), 15 % in zone 4 and brief periods in zone 5 at over 90% of MHR. So for example, a couple of weeks ago I did a very lumpy 25 miles in the English Lake District. HR peaked at 171 but my average HR for the ride was only 125.

Personally I think its speed of recovery that is the most important thing. It's not how high your HR can go, it's how fast its rate comes down when you ease off.
headwind

I agree with Cape.  warm up for a spell, then give it a full blast.  when I do mine I get a good long stretch of road and gradually get HR ramped up and then go for it.  Follow your body.  If you do it on a hill you will quickly see how HR for you works. it will quickly move up through then begin to taper (hold flat) near your max...keep there for a short bit then ramp down...ir at least thats how I do it as I dont like the sudden max to resting.

hw
headwind

berck wrote:
I've been able to hit 20 points higher than the formula for my age. For safety sakes, I use the number 10 points higher than my age. I have no problems recovering from a 95% effort on a hill climb.

I have a friend that's five years younger, and we use a number five points below mine. I still can't figure out if its physiological for him or not. He seems to have trouble pushing himself at higher HR's, but recovers fine.


Im with u berck.  i hit 10. physiology is everything.

hw
CapeRoadie

chasm wrote:
CapeRoadie wrote:
Do a 20-minute ITT and get a good warm-up to figure lactate threshold.  For HR max, just warm-up for 15-30 minutes, then go balls out all out for 30-60 seconds.  You'll max out.


Your warm-ups must be more strenuous than mine. Going flat out for 60 seconds doesn't get my HR to max out. Repeated intervals up hills do it for me, highest recent recorded HR 186 - which is 19 bpm higher than my theoretical max on the 220 minus age formula.

On a typical training ride I'll spend more than half the time in zones 1 and 2 (50% to 70% of max HR), maybe 20% in zone 3 (70 - 80%), 15 % in zone 4 and brief periods in zone 5 at over 90% of MHR. So for example, a couple of weeks ago I did a very lumpy 25 miles in the English Lake District. HR peaked at 171 but my average HR for the ride was only 125.

Personally I think its speed of recovery that is the most important thing. It's not how high your HR can go, it's how fast its rate comes down when you ease off.


There are those who would simply say you didn't go hard enough on the flats.  Wink

But if going uphill gets your HR higher, then go with that.  Not necessary for most people, however.

Your ability to recover from harder efforts is definitely more important.  Your HRmax isn't really a sign of fitness whatsoever.
last km

That 220 minus your age is a rough guide and rarely accurate.

When I was racing and then turned "vet" I treated myself to a full test at Lilleshall, they do a ramp test on the bike and check out your max heart rate, VO2 max, wattage and take blood samples to assess your Lactic acid threshold.

Luckily I was pronounced fit enough to carry on racing  Wink something I knew but was nice to see the lab results in black and white.
CapeRoadie

I do all those tests for my clients as well.  How much did it run you, last km?
last km

If I remember correctly, bearing in mind it was about 10 years ago, I think it was around £40 and took around an hour or so to complete.
I will see if I can find my report then I will post theresults on here.
last km

Here’s the results of my test at Lileshall, back in 1993 when I was in better shape than I am now !

VO2 Max 59.6 ml.kg -1min-1

Max Heart rate 194 bpm

Latic Acid (mmol/l) Heart rate (bpm)

1.3 130
1.3 154
1.5 167
2.3 181

Weight 71.7 kg
Body fat % 15.1%

Haemoglobin 17.1 grammes per decilitre

Cholesterol 5.9 mmol/l

Hope this is of interest, Cape will no doubt be commenting !
crash48

I don't think max HR is that important.

It is your Threshold HR that you need to know as well as your threshold climbing HR-which is a few beats more.

cape has the right idea.

last km

what is  'Haemoglobin 17.1 grammes per decilitre ' all about?
last km

last km

what is  'Haemoglobin 17.1 grammes per decilitre ' all about?[/quote]

The report I got back says :-

Recommended values are between 13.0 and 17.0, average is 15.4, low values can be corrected by increasing the intake of iron. Iron rich foods such as broccoli, spinach and liver should be consumed on a regular basis
thunderthighs

last km.. your stats suck.. 79 was my vo2...
io weighed.. 140 lbs..5 8 1/2.. 4% body fat.. @19 years old...

lactic acid ws low too.. number do not remember...

easy on the garbage mileages.... they will hurt you
last km

Thanks for that TT, I love you too  Rolling Eyes

You must have been to the John McEnroe school of diplomacy........not
CapeRoadie

Bragging may be a sign of insecurity with oneself.  I think TT is feeling competitive.
thunderthighs

am not bragging.. iam trying to help so u can become a great rider like my hero greg lemond... but those where my stats...

THEN AGAIN NOT EVEN I CARE...WENT NOWHERE!!!!

CIAO
CapeRoadie

Laughing  TT you crack me up, mate.  His stats aren't so bad.
crash48

thunderthighs wrote:
am not bragging.. iam trying to help so u can become a great rider like my hero greg lemond... but those where my stats...

THEN AGAIN NOT EVEN I CARE...WENT NOWHERE!!!!

CIAO



TT was just pointing out how difficult it is to make it as a rider.

His straight to to the point style is great.

Well I like it.
cardinal guzman

thunderthighs wrote:
am not bragging.. iam trying to help so u can become a great rider like my hero greg lemond... but those where my stats...

THEN AGAIN NOT EVEN I CARE...WENT NOWHERE!!!!

CIAO


I'm not surprised. Lemond's was 93. Armstrong's was 84 - so If you want to emulate Lemond, you have to follow Lance's lead and go see dr Ferrari.
redster73

I'm just glad I get a HR at the top of climbs!

usually my max is 175-180(ish) on a steep brutal climb...Sunday's climb up Ditchling was 191 but avg for the ride 145...
Crankyfeet

Re: Heart rate monitoring

Nolte wrote:
i was thinking i wonder what would happen if i went at 101% oif my heart rate



101% of your max HR should be fine.  I regularly go up to 110% of my max heart rate for short periods with no ill effects.
CapeRoadie

Laughing  Tell us exactly how you do that, cranky.
SlowRower

Re: Heart rate monitoring

Crankyfeet wrote:
Nolte wrote:
i was thinking i wonder what would happen if i went at 101% oif my heart rate



101% of your max HR should be fine.  I regularly go up to 110% of my max heart rate for short periods with no ill effects.


Surely, you cannot ever exceed your actual maximum heart rate. You can only ever exceed what you thought was your maximum heart rate and your maximum heart rate is immediately redefined.
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
How did you calculate your max HR?  220-age is what I use, but it is only approx.  Better way is to ride to you burst!  Cape will tell you more.


I can thoroughly recommend entering a mountain bike race that is in a category too fast for you, succumbing to the red mist at the start and trying to stay with the pack for as long as possible.

It worked for me, when I recorded my cycling max of 188.

For rowing, it was 193 and running 200.
berck

SlowRower wrote:
Bartali wrote:
How did you calculate your max HR?  220-age is what I use, but it is only approx.  Better way is to ride to you burst!  Cape will tell you more.


I can thoroughly recommend entering a mountain bike race that is in a category too fast for you, succumbing to the red mist at the start and trying to stay with the pack for as long as possible.

It worked for me, when I recorded my cycling max of 188.

For rowing, it was 193 and running 200.


Being chased by a fast dog works too Wink

Or, I found mine while trying to out pace traffic for making a turn. I hit 193.
Crankyfeet

CR and SR - It was a deliberately satirical and illogical post to accentuate the illogicalness of the question in the OP.
thunderthighs

another gadget.. burn them !!!!!..ciao
SlowRower

Crankyfeet wrote:
CR and SR - It was a deliberately satirical and illogical post to accentuate the illogicalness of the question in the OP.


My post was pretty tongue in cheek as well. Linguistic subtleties in real life are not my strong point - on a Forum, they rarely make it anywhere close to the keyboard!
thunderthighs

what my freinds told  me is ..i have great recovery..i do intervals with them and i drill them in badly.. we are all senior 1-2..

remebr its all about recovery....not steady pace...

think along these lines..when you watch a tv shows that is dyno testing an engine, why do they never show throttle fully on..then fully off.. becuz they no the engine is garbage...

ciao
Jeff Malkmus

101% of your maximum heart rate is pretty good.  If you keep working on it I am sure that you could get this up to 120% of your maximum heart rate which I believe the scientist will tell you is reaching near the limits of your maximum heart rate.  Keep up the good work.
Crankyfeet

Jeff Malkmus wrote:
101% of your maximum heart rate is pretty good.  If you keep working on it I am sure that you could get this up to 120% of your maximum heart rate which I believe the scientist will tell you is reaching near the limits of your maximum heart rate.  Keep up the good work.


You can't go to 120% of your maximum heart rate.  It means you have the wrong maximum heart rate.   110% is generally considered the maximum.  So just increase your Max HR about 10% and it will be correct.
Jeff Malkmus

Crankyfeet wrote:
Jeff Malkmus wrote:
101% of your maximum heart rate is pretty good.  If you keep working on it I am sure that you could get this up to 120% of your maximum heart rate which I believe the scientist will tell you is reaching near the limits of your maximum heart rate.  Keep up the good work.


You can't go to 120% of your maximum heart rate.  It means you have the wrong maximum heart rate.   110% is generally considered the maximum.  So just increase your Max HR about 10% and it will be correct.


You are wrong.  I routinely exceed my actual maximum heart rate by about 15%.  I have science to prove it.  And its not fake bigfoot roadkill either.
Crankyfeet

Jeff Malkmus wrote:
Crankyfeet wrote:
Jeff Malkmus wrote:
101% of your maximum heart rate is pretty good.  If you keep working on it I am sure that you could get this up to 120% of your maximum heart rate which I believe the scientist will tell you is reaching near the limits of your maximum heart rate.  Keep up the good work.


You can't go to 120% of your maximum heart rate.  It means you have the wrong maximum heart rate.   110% is generally considered the maximum.  So just increase your Max HR about 10% and it will be correct.


You are wrong.  I routinely exceed my actual maximum heart rate by about 15%.  I have science to prove it.  And its not fake bigfoot roadkill either.

Well you must be a freak then IMHO.  10% is the generally accepted limit AFAIK know for exceeding MHR (though I think Indurain was able to get to 112%).  I don't have any science to back it up but I'm sure just about everyone here with training knowledge will agree with me.  IIRC... I got it out of a Chris Carmichael book.  

I probably need to get me some of that stuff you're on in any case if it can allow you to do that.
Jeff Malkmus

Crankyfeet wrote:
Jeff Malkmus wrote:
Crankyfeet wrote:
Jeff Malkmus wrote:
101% of your maximum heart rate is pretty good.  If you keep working on it I am sure that you could get this up to 120% of your maximum heart rate which I believe the scientist will tell you is reaching near the limits of your maximum heart rate.  Keep up the good work.


You can't go to 120% of your maximum heart rate.  It means you have the wrong maximum heart rate.   110% is generally considered the maximum.  So just increase your Max HR about 10% and it will be correct.


You are wrong.  I routinely exceed my actual maximum heart rate by about 15%.  I have science to prove it.  And its not fake bigfoot roadkill either.

Well you must be a freak then IMHO.  10% is the generally accepted limit AFAIK know for exceeding MHR (though I think Indurain was able to get to 112%).  I don't have any science to back it up but I'm sure just about everyone here with training knowledge will agree with me.  IIRC... I got it out of a Chris Carmichael book.  

I probably need to get me some of that stuff you're on in any case if it can allow you to do that.


Its probably a bad joke when you have to explain it.
Crankyfeet

Jeff Malkmus wrote:
Its probably a bad joke when you have to explain it.

Fcuk you.  You're a joke.  This is not the first time either.  What about that time you argued that taking the decal stickers off your wheels wouldn't result in much performance improvement.  
CapeRoadie

All I know is that at 100% of HR max, you're DEAD.  You weird people.
berck

CapeRoadie wrote:
All I know is that at 100% of HR max, you're DEAD.  You weird people.


I still remember a conversation I had will a medical doctor (and fellow cyclist) about pushing to your max HR. He told me to just keep pushing until your HR stopped.

I then responded with, that's the problem, I don't want to die. After a good laugh between us, he explained that eventually your body will hit its max HR and will stop climbing.

That's what I find so strange about this conversation I've been following. If you think you're pushing 110% of your max HR, then you never properly measured your max HR.

220 - age is a guideline, not a true measurement of your max HR.
Crankyfeet

CapeRoadie wrote:
All I know is that at 100% of HR max, you're DEAD.  You weird people.

I always thought your heart rate was 0% of HR max when you're dead.  You learn something everyday.
Crankyfeet

berck wrote:
220 - age is a guideline, not a true measurement of your max HR.

If I adjusted my HR max to the max reading I've achieved... that would make my age only 31 by the formula.   Which is impossible.  What are you guys doing over in GB?   What's the use of having the formula at all if it means nothing?

btw... you obviously take everything you read as serious to spout these weird HR max ideas.   Wink
berck

Crankyfeet wrote:

If I adjusted my HR max to the max reading I've achieved... that would make my age only 31 by the formula.   Which is impossible.  What are you guys doing over in GB?   What's the use of having the formula at all if it means nothing?


The formula is nothing but an estimate. You should always use what you have measured to be your maximum HR. Please read here

I got my HR up to 193 about three years ago. That would make me only 27. I'm much older than that too. I can actively maintain an HR in the low 170's without hurting my HR recovery. The thing is, once you hit your max HR, your body has a difficult time recovering from it. Your HR stays really high for a while.

Three of us were climbing a hill early this year. The lighter one took off, while me and another were climbing a steep grade. My HR was starting to hit into the low 180's, and I wasn't sure about the difficultly of the hill continuing. I was pondering stopping and resting for a minute to bring it down and then continue. My friend then said what I was thinking about. We both stopped. My HR dropped pretty quickly. His did not. He maxed out, or came close to it. It took him nearly 10 minutes before he could get his breathing back down to normal.

That's the experience to have when you hit, or come near to your max HR.
CapeRoadie

Crankyfeet wrote:
CapeRoadie wrote:
All I know is that at 100% of HR max, you're DEAD.  You weird people.

I always thought your heart rate was 0% of HR max when you're dead.  You learn something everyday.


Right, I should have said anything over 100% HRmax and you're DEAD, resulting in a flatline, right... you weird people.
cyclingtv

CapeRoadie wrote:
Crankyfeet wrote:
CapeRoadie wrote:
All I know is that at 100% of HR max, you're DEAD.  You weird people.
I always thought your heart rate was 0% of HR max when you're dead.  You learn something everyday.
Right, I should have said anything over 100% HRmax and you're DEAD, resulting in a flatline, right... you weird people.
you all need to add the word 'age targeted' to your 'max HR' calculation..
some use the calc.. 200 minus 1/2 your age for the over 30 crowd..
when I was 53 I could ride at 165-170 bpm all day long without bonking..
Motor Mouth

Do a max HR test.
It is a very arduous test and should only be carried out if you have some history of serious training.
Ideally you do it in a gym environment with someone else on hand.
The idea of it is to ride to a point where your heart can beat no faster and you start to black out. Before doing it you should be well rested and be mentally prepared to push yourself to your total limit.

Warm up for 20 minutes, ride at hard TT effort for 20 minutes, ride flat out for 2 minutes and then finally sprint as hard as you can.
You will start to black out during the sprint, when you can start to focus again that is you max HR.

It is a very tough test indeed but worth doing.

       justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> Dr.Fuentes Consulting Room
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum