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HuwB

Giro D'Italia 2013. News, Previews Teams etc etc

Thought it might be a good idea to get the GT ball rolling with a general thread, since the Giro depart is a mere fortnight away.

The most important news of all. TV coverage: who's doing what and a couple of important "firsts".
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/...rcs-team/giro-ditalia-tv-coverage

Quote:
RAI will ensure the best production as Host Broadcaster of the Giro through a specialist international production team and, for the first time, by HD signal. It will make live programs available guaranteeing 3 hours of the Giro live every day, as well as delayed broadcasts, 5 minutes of new access at the finish, 26 minutes of daily highlights and 52 minutes of weekly highlights with expert English journalist commentary.

Three stages (19th May - Col du Galibier, 24the May - Val Martello and 25the May - Tre Cime di Lavaredo) will be produced by RAI in full.


Very Happy
Bartali

Very Happy

Thanks Huw
HuwB

FDJ for the Giro d'Italia: Murilo Fischer, Anthony Roux, Jussi Veikkanen, Johan Le Bon, Nacer Bouhanni, Sandy Casar, Arnold Jeannesson, Laurent Pichon and Francis Mourey.

Dominique Rollin and Kenny Elissonde have been named as reserves.


I was very impressed with Francis Mourey, the French multi-CC champ in last week's Tro Bro Leon.
Would like to have seen young climber Kenny Elissonde given a go at those Giro mountains.
HuwB

"Unofficial" Sky line up:
Wiggins, Henao, Uran, Sivtsov, Knees, Kennaugh, Pate, Cataldo, Puccio.

Almost Tour standard.
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
"Unofficial" Sky line up:
Wiggins, Henao, Uran, Sivtsov, Knees, Kennaugh, Pate, Cataldo, Puccio.

Almost Tour standard.


I wouldn't have expected all 3 of Henao, Uran and Sivtsov. At first glance leaves them a bit light on fresh horses for Froome, but I've been constantly surprised by what they can and can't do for the last 18 months so what do I know. If they win both, the clinic will need a new dedicated sub forum Wink
gerry12ie

Is the Clinic thread up to a million posts yet? Wink

So that just leaves Froome with Lopez, Porte, Kiryienka, Tiernan-Locke - and Wiggins in the Rogers role Laughing

There'll be tears before bedtime...
HuwB

Ag2r La Mondiale for the 2013 Giro d’Italia:
Davide Appollonio (ITA)
Manuel Belletti (ITA)
Julien Bérard (FRA)
Carlos Betancur (COL)
Guillaume Bonnafond (FRA)
Hubert Dupont (FRA)
Ben Gastauer (LUX)
Sylvain Georges (FRA)
Domenico Pozzovivo (ITA)


A few minor route changes, too:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/...team/the-final-giro-ditalia-route
Slapshot 3

gerry12ie wrote:
Is the Clinic thread up to a million posts yet? Wink

So that just leaves Froome with Lopez, Porte, Kiryienka, Tiernan-Locke - and Wiggins in the Rogers role Laughing

There'll be tears before bedtime...


Still not convinced Wiggings doesn't have an eye on the Giro/Tour double, Sky would go mental and they'd shaft Froome in an instant if there was even a chance he could pull that off
SlowRower

Slapshot 3 wrote:
Still not convinced Wiggings doesn't have an eye on the Giro/Tour double, Sky would go mental and they'd shaft Froome in an instant if there was even a chance he could pull that off


It would be strange if Wiggo signs on for the Tour if he didn't want to win it. I'm sure the good memories of a Giro/Tour double would long outlast the hoohar of dealing with the outraged future Mrs Froome on Twitter.

Whether he'll be physically capable is another matter. The biggest danger to Froome is if Wiggo bombs early on in the Giro and then either pulls out or rides the rest for training. In this case, both Wiggo and Froome would be in prime shape for a duel in the Tour. That could be tasty indeed! And probably good news for the other contenders, as Wiggo and Froome fighting each other would surely compromise the performance of the top Sky rider, whoever that turns out to be.
Bartali

Slight change of topic, but am I the only one who thinks Wiggins lost Trentino because he couldn't ride to his power meter after the change of bike.  The bike change took less than 20 seconds; yet he finished 37 seconds behind Evans.

Hard to believe he wouldn't have out climbed Evans if he new his numbers.
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Slight change of topic, but am I the only one who thinks Wiggins lost Trentino because he couldn't ride to his power meter after the change of bike.


That is a popular theory in The Clinic, albeit with the twist that he chose to soft-pedal so as to make sure he was not observed climbing at 8w/kg, thus blowing the lid on his level of doping!

Whilst plausible, it (ie Wiggo being thrown by the lack of a PM, not The Clinic) does seem a bit unlikely that the lack of a PM would leave him rudderless. Even for someone from a "cycling by numbers" background in the pursuits, Wiggo's climbed enough hills to be able to guage his efforts pretty effectively particularly as even at the speed the pros go, a 20s gap is visual.

Having said that, though, the top guys are so cossetted that something which us Warriors would take in our stride (e.g. flat speedo battery or misplaced HRM) might tip them over the edge, particularly Wiggo, a man not always on top of his emotions.
Boogerd_Fan

I thought the loss of more time was due to the difference between gear ratios setup on the primary and spare bike?
He was riding a compact until the malfunction, but his spare was with a 53 and 39 tooth front cog… he was making in-roads into the getting back on until they started the next over 10% bit, at which point Nibs went again and the front group split up. Wiggo was left in an overgeared situation like on the Angliru.
Or am I too naive, in believing the Sky PR?
Fontfroide

Being a slightly serious, but critical Fan of the French TEams, I am quite happy to see teams like FDJ and AG2R going to the Grio with a bunch of riders who could show themselves well at various points in the race.  Pretty clear that Bouhanni, with his lovely un-logoed jersey, might be lifting his arms once or twice during the Giro.  Maybe.  And we might see Jeanneson confirming his possibilities or even Le Bon showing himself once or twice.  AG2R has both Betancur and Pozzovivo who might climb well on a  stage or two.
Nolte

Fontfroide wrote:
AG2R has both Betancur and Pozzovivo who might climb well on a  stage or two.


maybe betancur could contend for the young riders jersey?
he was born in 1989. maybe i shouldn't give away some of my fps
Bartali

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
I thought the loss of more time was due to the difference between gear ratios setup on the primary and spare bike?
He was riding a compact until the malfunction, but his spare was with a 53 and 39 tooth front cog… he was making in-roads into the getting back on until they started the next over 10% bit, at which point Nibs went again and the front group split up. Wiggo was left in an overgeared situation like on the Angliru.


Plausible.  For a team that prides itself on marginal gains they don't half make some major goofs when it comes to spare bikes and gearing.  I struggle to understand why a spare bike wouldn't be set up exactly like the number one bike.
maffy

Nolte wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
AG2R has both Betancur and Pozzovivo who might climb well on a  stage or two.


maybe betancur could contend for the young riders jersey?
he was born in 1989. maybe i shouldn't give away some of my fps


he said as much at bici last week http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=61350

if ag2browntrousersr leave dupont to go for the roche,n gc level success standard, then diddy-p could win the mountains jumper. but at 30 on a world tour team for the first time it'll probably not work out like that.

mountain helper bonnafond tends to go well this time of year and georges might do another big bear lake.

good for the sprints and the sprints from a break with appollonio and belletti too.  makes you wonder what rinaldo's planning. the omission of gadret is also interesting.

---
...ooh, wacky got 5 hours in the silverstone wind tunnel today. and it looks like only one player picked berhane (2 mentions before today here) in cobblestone Wink. shame that player bollixed up the other pix. it'd be interesting to see how many other players had gaudin for pr, but compyoutersez infos not available...
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
Boogerd_Fan wrote:
I thought the loss of more time was due to the difference between gear ratios setup on the primary and spare bike?
He was riding a compact until the malfunction, but his spare was with a 53 and 39 tooth front cog… he was making in-roads into the getting back on until they started the next over 10% bit, at which point Nibs went again and the front group split up. Wiggo was left in an overgeared situation like on the Angliru.


Plausible.  For a team that prides itself on marginal gains they don't half make some major goofs when it comes to spare bikes and gearing.  I struggle to understand why a spare bike wouldn't be set up exactly like the number one bike.


Especially for your protected rider. You would have though they would have learnt the gearing lesson from the Vuelta. I suppose it means they're human rather than robots after all Smile

CN wrote:
Cyclingnews studied both of Wiggins' bikes to understand what happened. His spare bike was fitted with a new FC-9000 Dura Ace Di2 chainset, while his race bike, the one which failed, was fitted with an older SRM Dura Ace SRM chainset. Team Sky staff were vague about why Wiggins' spare bike was fitted with a 39 inner ring.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/w...him-dear-at-the-giro-del-trentino
gerry12ie

Sending Froome out in short sleeves at TA when everyone else was in longs or warmers backfired badly too.  Gearing was wrong as well...
Bartali

Indeed - far too many mistakes.  I might even suggest they make more mistakes of this kind than the other big teams - although that might just be my perception.  Nevertheless, I feel we can confidently say that the 'marginal gains' and 'attention to detail' is bollocks ... and that any success they achieve is via other (traditional) means.
Boogerd_Fan

Seems that way... similar to the "we're clean" angle, by announcing how they look at all the small details, any mistake, no matter how small.. is perceived as a big cock up.

If the same thing happened at OPQS i'm sure there wouldn't be such a fuss about a different groupset on the spare bike.
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Nevertheless, I feel we can confidently say that the 'marginal gains' and 'attention to detail' is bollocks ... and that any success they achieve is via other (traditional) means.


I wouldn't write off "marginal gains" as such. The very nature of sport is to seek gains, knowing that they will be marginal, because the opposition is trying to do the same thing. What is b*llocks - in my view - is that Sky have invented or discovered a whole host of new sources of gains.

All you really need for a stage race are good enough riders, who are well motivated and have sensible preparation re race schedule. Never forget luck either - it's hard to overstate how lucky Wiggo was last year with a course that he could have designed for himself (and, if you believe the Clinic, did design himself!) and an almost complete absence of GT-proven opposition that wasn't patently sub-par or crocked from the Giro.
Bartali

Its all the "can we use our yellow skin suit in the ITT because it's so much faster" bolloks that gets to me.  This is a team that have a track record of over gearing ... if they can't get that right then they shouldn't even be thinking about skin suit advantages.  Either they have their priorities all wrong or they are laying down a smoke screen ... as we've seen so often before.

So back to Trentino ... is he really that far behind Evans or just poorly served by his managemnent and mechanics?
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Either they have their priorities all wrong or they are laying down a smoke screen ... as we've seen so often before.


I think Sky is like a lot of organisations where the head honcho - Sir Dave in this case - doesn't actually have any meaningful experience of the subject matter they are now responsible for. (Track being very different to road etc.) Think of Andy Hornby and HBOS for a good example of how badly this can go wrong!

There's always a lot of talk, containing lots of fancy lingo that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny, with good results happening despite, rather than because of "the management".

Re Wiggo's performance levels - there's a hint of 2010 about the season so far. Lots of hype, excuses and rationalisation. My gut feeling is that the Giro won't go well for him, though it's still 3 weeks to the business end thereof, and he might be timing his peak to perfection.
Bartali

Indeed!  Personally I think wiggins will be just fine so long as he has his power meter hooked up.  The team look very strong to me.  Obviously I hope Nibs rides him into the dust ... but that's another story!

Froome is the interesting one for me ... a very similat year to Wiggins last year ... winning everything he rides. #suspicious  #whatisheon
Bartali

Back on topic ....

Wiggins' build up to the TdF last year worked a treat .... why has he changed it this year?  Okay, May is not July, but last year we were told its not about peaking .... its about being consistent all through the year.  What gives?
Fontfroide

Yep that was the line.  Keep at 90% all year round, like a swimmer, and then bump it up slightly for various events.

I reckon he gained some weight and was too busy being a hero last winter, best sportsman and all that.  People must have been leaning on him everywhere to do this or that.  I figure he just got out of shape and realised it in January.  So had to invent a new infallible plan based on minute gains and so forth.  

Or he might have "already done that"  "already had the teeshirt" and so took it a bit more easy, since he had to ride TWO Tours this year, to get a new teeshirt.  So he checked out if he could keep up with the best on various days at various races, which he more or less did, and then just motored along semi-casually, saving his strength, since he also knew he was getting a bit old.

But of course, I have  no idea really.
gerry12ie

Even with 80k+ of TTs I think this Giro is a much bigger ask of Wiggins and Sky than the TDF last year.  TTT's have a canny knack of undoing the best prepared teams (BMC in Giro 2010, Sky at Vuelta 2010 beaten by, eh Euskaltel) and offer 8 more chances to f*ck up.  As good as he is in TTs, Wiggins doesn't relish pulling a train along like Martin or Cancellara.  The 20k TT is a hilly affair that will surely disrupt rhythm and might suit Nibali and others as much as Bradley so really the 55k TT is where the race should be won or lost.

AFAIK there is bonifications of 20, 12 and 8 seconds on the road stages and 2 intermediate sprints with 5 and 3 seconds which means Sky are going to have to work hard every day to contain snipers.  Bradley simply had to roll in each day in the Tour but it won't be that simple in Italy.  So it might be all about the Dolomites and there will be a big difference between powerclimbing the Alps in July and the Stelvio in May.  

*must check Hesjedal's odds to retain...
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Back on topic ....

Wiggins' build up to the TdF last year worked a treat .... why has he changed it this year?  Okay, May is not July, but last year we were told its not about peaking .... its about being consistent all through the year.  What gives?


From what I've deduced from Wiggo's book and interviews etc. with other Sky personnel, there is a strong belief that you can prepare physiologically more effectively in the controlled environment of training, as opposed to in a race. The racing Wiggo/Sky did do was as much to learn how to ride as the leading team, protecting the jersey etc and to give Wiggo experience of the pressure of leading rather than as part of physiological preparation.

Thus, there's no need to repeat that for Wiggo this year, as he's done the learning how to win stage races thing last year. The rest of his Giro boys have done plenty of racing this year, if memory serves.

It does seem a bit odd to me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Maybe, as this is the last year of his contract, he's had enough, and can't really be bothered and is marking time before returning to the track for Rio.

I guess we'll know soon enough!
Fontfroide

gerry12ie wrote:
 

*must check Hesjedal's odds to retain...


Ranging from 8-10 mostly.

Wiggo at 1, Nibali at 2, roughly.

One bet you could make today is 151 on Porte.

Sanchez, Gesink, Evens, Scarponi come next, followed by others.
Bartali

SlowRower wrote:
It does seem a bit odd to me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Indeed ....
HuwB

Lotto Belisol line-up for the Giro d’Italia: Lars Bak, Dirk Bellemakers, Francis De Greef, Kenny Dehaes, Gert Dockx, Adam Hansen, Olivier Kaisen, Tim Wellens and Frederik Willems.

Astana : Vincenzo Nibali, Janez Brajkovic, Fredrik Kessiakoff, Paolo Tiranlongo, Tanel Kangert, Valerio Agnoli, Alessandro Vanotti, Fabio Aru and Dmitriy Gruzdev

Blanco : Robert Gesink, Wilco Kelderman, Steven Kruijswijk, Maarten Tjallingii, Stef Clement more Jack Bobridge, Paul Martens, Juan Manuel Garate and Maarten Wynants.

Euskaltel-Euskadi : Samuel Sánchez, Egoi Martinez, Jorge Azanza, Pablo Urtasun, Gorka Verdugo, Miguel Minguez, Ricardo Garcia, Ioannis Tamouridis and Robert VRECER* (* unconfirmed)

Team Saxo Tinkoff:
Rafal Majka, Matti Breschel, Daniele Bennati, Rory Sutherland, Bruno Pires, Mads Christensen, Karsten Kroon, Manuele Boaro and Evgeny Petrov.
Biosphere

SlowRower wrote:

Maybe, as this is the last year of his contract, he's had enough, and can't really be bothered and is marking time before returning to the track for Rio.


I think it's still full steam ahead when reading this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2...bradley-wiggins-giro-tim-kerrison

Froome will have to watch his back Smile
Boogerd_Fan

Bartali wrote:
Indeed!  Personally I think wiggins will be just fine so long as he has his power meter hooked up.  The team look very strong to me.  Obviously I hope Nibs rides him into the dust ... but that's another story!

Froome is the interesting one for me ... a very similat year to Wiggins last year ... winning everything he rides. #suspicious  #whatisheon


I assume that they haven’t changed his “preparation” so I can only believe that he was soft pedaling the last 18 months.
Slapshot 3

Anyone heard whther J Rod is riding the Giro??
HuwB

Slapshot 3 wrote:
Anyone heard whther J Rod is riding the Giro??

He isn't.

Movistar:José Herrada, Beñat Intxausti, Pablo Lastras, Fran Ventoso and Juanjo Cobo, Alex Dowsett, Vladimir Karpets, Eros Capecchi and Giovanni Visconti.
gerry12ie

Well probably the best way to fcuk up Sky's season is for Bradley to announce a few days before the Giro start (and the day after Froome wrapped up Romandie) that he wants to go for the double...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2.../bradley-wiggins-giro-italia-tour

I knew Froome would get shafted...

Quote:
"I don't think it's that confusing. We both want to win the Tour de France and we're on different paths towards that. We will get to three days out from the race I imagine, in Corsica, and Dave will have to make a decision as to how we do this.

"In an ideal scenario we'll both be in incredible condition, both capable of winning the Tour de France, then it all lies in Dave's hands to say: 'Right, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go with you Chris, or with you Brad, or you know what, for the first week we'll go with both of you and see what happens'. So in an ideal scenario we'd be [going] with both of us for that first week and let the racing take care of itself."
HuwB

I knew Froome was going to get shafted, too, by the way Wiggins has raced.
Not all out to win everything, like last year, just steady progress and never going very deep.
Like a big neon sign.........that Chris couldn't read.


Anyhow.....
Vini Fantini:
Rafael Andriato
Francesco Chicchi
Danilo Di Luca
Stefano Garzelli
Oscar Gatto
Alessandro Proni
Matteo Rabottini
Mauro Santambrogio
Fabio Taborre


Radioshack Leopard Trek:

BENNETT George
HONDO Danilo
KISERLOVSKI Robert
MACHADO Tiago
NIZZOLO Giacomo
OLIVEIRA Nelson
POPOVYCH Yaroslav
ROULSTON Hayden
SERGENT Jesse
Biosphere

Wiggin's PR men are earning their crust today. Another variation on the theme

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2...adley-wiggins-giro-tour-de-france

I read it a little bit more that he's pitching himself to management, rather than there being a clear plan by management to ultimately shaft Froome. On balance I think he's getting maybe a little bit ahead of himself, but it's going to be entertaining for us in July if there's civil war Very Happy
Bartali

HuwB wrote:
I knew Froome was going to get shafted, too, by the way Wiggins has raced.
Not all out to win everything, like last year, just steady progress and never going very deep.
Like a big neon sign.........that Chris couldn't read.


I'm not so sure.  He's changed a winning formula and that seems odd to me. By contrast, Froome is on the 2012 Wiggins preperation which is tried and tested.

I hope Wiggins doesn't win the Giro ... but I would be happy for him to beat Froome in the Tour.  But sadly I suspect the opposite will happen.

What's the Katusha squad?
Biosphere

Froome putting it about that he has been assured of leadership and full backing at the Tour and the squad that will be picked will reflect that.
HuwB

I reckon Wiggins is about to fall............between two stools.
Still waiting on Katusha.

Orica GreenEdge: Luke Durbridge, Matt Goss, Leigh Howard, Jens Keukeleire, Brett Lancaster, Christian Meier, Jens Mouris, Svein Tuft and Pieter Weening.

Team Argos-Shimano:
Bert De Backer (Bel), Thomas Damuseau (Fra), John Degenkolb (Ger), Patrick Gretsch (Ger), Cheng Ji (Chn), Koen de Kort (Ned), Tobias Ludvigsson (Swe), Luka Mezgec (Slo), Albert Timmer (Ned)

Colombia:
Darwin Atapuma (Col), Edwin Avila (Col), Robinson Chalapud (Col), Fabio Duarte (Col), Leonardo Duque (Col), Wilson Marentes (Col), Dalivier Ospina (Col), Jarlinson Pantano (Col), Carlos Julian Quintero (Col)
Biosphere

Here's what Froome 'said'. I didn't realise he was making a full statement when the Twitter chorus was singing last night.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID...gement-to-win-Tour-de-France.aspx

So you have Froome issuing statements seemingly independent from Sky, Wiggins giving interviews that seem to be about straining at the management leash and Sky not saying much. There will be tears before Paris.

I'll stop posting gossip about the tour now as there's an important race coming up Smile
Boogerd_Fan

The Bayern Rundfahrt??

I think Wiggo should try to win the Giro before starting to harp on about the double. I think Nibs will undo him in the dolomites. Can’t see how he’d hold his form for the Tour – Hesjedal didn’t last year. Never mind a H2H vs. Froome, there’s a certain Contador and others who are peaking only for July who will smoke him in the mountains.
Fontfroide

Historical note.  First Chinese guy to ride the Giro and you will be there.
HuwB

Androni:
Franco Pellizotti, Emanuele Sella, Giairo Ermeti, Fabio Felline, Mattia Gavazzi and Diego Rosa (all Italian), Tomas Gil and Jackson Rodriguez (Venezuelan) and Colombia's Miguel Angel Rubiano.

Katusha:
Yuriy Trofimov, Maxim Belkov, Pavel Brutt, Giampaolo Caruso, Vladimir Gusev, Petr Ignatenko, Dmitriy Kozonchuk, Luca Paolini and Angel Vicioso.

Omega Pharma-QuickStep:
Gianluca Brambilla (Ita), Mark Cavendish (GBr), Michal Golas (Pol), Iljo Keisse (Bel), Serge Pauwels (Bel), Jerome Pineau (Fra), Gert Steegmans (Bel), Matteo Trentin (Ita), Julien Vermote (Bel)

Astana:
Vincenzo Nibali (ITA), Andrey Zeits (KAZ), Paolo Tiralongo (ITA) , Valerio Agnoli (ITA), Dmitri Gruzdev (ITA), Fredrik Kessiakoff (SWE), Fabio Aru (ITA). Tanel Kangert (EST) and Alessandro Vanotti (ITA).

Some pretty disappointing line ups in there, imo.
Fontfroide

Thing that bothers me about Astana is that, due to my ignrance and biased interest, I have no idea at all who at least four of the Astana guys are.  If they were French or English or American or Dutch or Belgian I would know more.  Well, "Belgians all have names that sound alike", so I don't know them either.  This is an important Tour I don't know all hte players on several teams.  Bothers me.
Bartali

By contrast .... I think it is a cleverly selected team.  Four Italian gregario to support an Italian leader in an Italian race.  presumably this is to engender camaradre, passion and team harmony.

Gruzdev (is he really an italian) is the reigning Kaz ITT champion and Kangert had a respectible finish (26th) in last year's Giro and Zeits finished in 35th so both useful men.

I like this squad ... thoughthe acid test will be whether Nibs can reproduce the very respectible ITTs he was delivering 3 or so years ago.  Hopefully the change of team will have helped.
Fontfroide

Learning more every day.  It does seem like it MUST be a good team, they have money and clear purpose.  Thanks for the details on the guys who names I can't always spell and their actual cycling capabilities.
Bartali

You have got to love Robert Millar ...

Quote:
Gesink may surprise as much as he may fall off.



... sorry Boogie, but you have to admit it is funny! Smile
HuwB

Rujano out of the race, before it starts.
No prizes for guessing why:
http://www.vacansoleildcm.co.uk/n...vacansoleil-dcm-travels-to-giro-d
kathy

The FP thread for Week 1 of the Giro is now available

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/about4928.html
HuwB

I know Bio has posted this, but I'll put it in the right spot. Wink

Basso out of the Giro with a cyst.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/basso-out-of-the-giro-ditalia

Looks like time to call last orders to me, Ivan.
Fontfroide

According to an article in L'Equipe, well one sentence in a larger article on Demare, the other French sprinters, what might happen in the Tour etc, it was revealed that Nacer Bouhanni is programmed only to do a week of the Giro.

Just in case anyone wants a sprinter who will be around for three weeks, assuming.
HuwB

Pinched this from over in BR, cos it looked tidy:




http://www.podiumcafe.com/2013/5/...3-giro-ditalia-mountains-overview

Well worth a look for a little bio (can that apply to a climb?) of each of the big ones, plus a profile.
Boogerd_Fan

Interesting that Tre Cime Lavaredo is so low on the list - but I expect that the final podium won't be complete until after that. Val Martello & TCL will be the cruciual ones in my view. With a status quo on the Galibier because there will still be a week to go.
HuwB

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Interesting that Tre Cime Lavaredo is so low on the list - but I expect that the final podium won't be complete until after that. Val Martello & TCL will be the cruciual ones in my view. With a status quo on the Galibier because there will still be a week to go.


Well, it's really Te Cime and Tre Croce added together, with a very short downhill section joining the two.
15kms at 8% combined, or there abouts.
Places them just behind Passo Giau in 4th spot.
gerry12ie

From an Irish forum...

Tight innit?



Bartali

Gerry - I've not noticed your sign-off before!  Oh dear Cathy  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
Gerry - I've not noticed your sign-off before!  Oh dear Cathy  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


Special Giro edition sig Wink
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
Gerry - I've not noticed your sign-off before!  Oh dear Cathy  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


She's got a point, albeit somewhat clumsily made. You don't get paid for being panachical (if such a word exists).
HuwB

SlowRower wrote:
Bartali wrote:
Gerry - I've not noticed your sign-off before!  Oh dear Cathy  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


She's got a point, albeit somewhat clumsily made. You don't get paid for being panachical (if such a word exists).


No she hasn't.

Not everybody can ride each stage at a track tempo set by a power meter.
We'd all be going "Marco who?", if Pantani had ridden in the style of Wiggins.
One of those "pointless attacks" won him the double that Wiggins now desires.
On the other hand, Indurain would have been in his element, were he riding to this module.

Riders riding to their strengths, not a formula.
Some riders happen to have been born with panache.
gerry12ie

SlowRower wrote:
Bartali wrote:
Gerry - I've not noticed your sign-off before!  Oh dear Cathy  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


She's got a point, albeit somewhat clumsily made. You don't get paid for being panachical (if such a word exists).


Buy you can make a few quid being parochial Wink
gerry12ie

SR - What exactly is her point that is so clumsily made, and why should it relate to ££ or $$ or €€.  AFAIK Merckx still got paid after Tre Cime di Laverado, and I'm sure Pantani made a few bob after Oropa.
SlowRower

gerry12ie wrote:
SR - What exactly is her point that is so clumsily made, and why should it relate to ££ or $$ or €€.  AFAIK Merckx still got paid after Tre Cime di Laverado, and I'm sure Pantani made a few bob after Oropa.


The point is that her man wins riding boringly. The riders that showed panache against him last year all got stuffed. Therefore, criticisms of Wiggo for lacking panache (which is what she was responding to rather than criticising panache per se) are not rational if one views cycling as a results-based business.

She wouldn't have a point if Wiggo had been stuffed by a series of Pantani-style attacks dripping in panache, or if entertainment is more important than winning.
Bartali

Without panache there are no fans ... no sponsors ... no money ... no nice house for Cathy Wiggins.  Her whole lifestyle is born out of other riders panache!!!
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
Without panache there are no fans ... no sponsors ... no money ... no nice house for Cathy Wiggins.  Her whole lifestyle is born out of other riders panache!!!


This salut
Bartali

My favourite time of the year ... who will win the next one?

gerry12ie

What a pic!

Honestly?  Hesjedal.
Bartali

I've never seen a Garmin one for sale Gerry.  Or a Scarponi one for 2011!! Wink
gerry12ie

I don't know anyone that isn't a princess that has more than one pink bike... Wink  Very Happy
Bartali

Laughing  Laughing  Embarassed  Embarassed
Biosphere

Very Nice Bart!

Gerry's just jealous Wink

I can picture the scene in a few years time when a extension to Bartali Manor is proposed and the Listed Buildings people come round to object, and Bart explains that he needs more beams to hang the Maglie!
mr shifter

Boogerd_Fan wrote:


I think Wiggo should try to win the Giro before starting to harp on about the double.
Well if Stephen Roche can do it then anyone else can, if the opposition is not that good.
Boogerd_Fan

Bartali wrote:
My favourite time of the year ... who will win the next one?




is that another one from the wine cellar turned bike graveyard, Bart?
Bartali

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
is that another one from the wine cellar turned bike graveyard, Bart?


Graveyard .... I hope not!!  Everything is in full working order down in the dungeon!!
Fontfroide

Nice one Bartali.  You keep my faith in the British eccentric (with a bit of bread).  You might even be a fanatic, in the nicest sense of the term.
HuwB

The official road book, all 380 odd pages of it, are available to download again, this year, for we fanatics!

http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/G.../2013/download/Garibaldi_2013.pdf
JohnD

That's a stunning collection Bartali!

Cheers Huw - i was going to buy the mag in WH Smith so you saved me a fiver!
gerry12ie

Thanks Huw
Biosphere

SlowRower wrote:
The point is that her man wins riding boringly. The riders that showed panache against him last year all got stuffed. Therefore, criticisms of Wiggo for lacking panache (which is what she was responding to rather than criticising panache per se) are not rational if one views cycling as a results-based business.


Well she does seem to be criticising panache in general from that quote, and even if I had context to put around it I'm not sure I'd change my mind. I don't like panache is quite clear cut IMO. Also, a rider who could have showed panache last year was ordered not to, so to say Wiggins got the result is a wee bit hollow. If I was to replace the word attacking with panache, it would be hard to say that it doesn't bring results as some type of general rule.
gerry12ie

I think Mrs. Wiggins stance is not just a defence of Mr. Wiggins style, it's probably indicative of a fairly unique predilection in these islands - namely, a substantial distrust of flair.  It's probably more readily considered as being a 'saxon' trait than 'celtic', but that said I reckon Kelly could have probably bagged another three Monuments had he not been so cautious.  Cath's position is evidenced over the years in  discussions about Haynes, Hoddle, Pietersen, Tony Ward, Gower etc, the 'type' of flair player who were often considered as likely to let you down when the heat was on.

I think a feature of Wiggin's season last year was the striking lack of panache from his rivals who simply rolled over when they realized how unevenly stacked the odds were.  Maybe in the circumstances that Sky currently enjoy, where race organizers lay out routes for them and they can afford to pack a squad with half a dozen team leaders, then attacking might just be pointless and stupid.

I hope to f*ck she is proven wrong though...
Fontfroide

I tend to like flair and panache.  In fact, I think that I want every single stage or race to have flair and panache.  Or, the unexpected.  I have a hunch that if that happened (flair, uncertainty, panache in every stage), I would get very tired, "not able to handle the excitement".  Therefore, I do like stages which might have flair and panache, but not every day.  A flat stage where nothing happens, and there is a terrific sprint duel for 5k suits me fine some days.  I can skip the rest of the stage and go for a ride or get some stuff done, rather than watch the whole stage.  Mind you, I make slight exceptions for the Tour, which I do watch nearly every day.  I have to admit it annoys me these days when I see races where there is a group of 10-20 riders climbing the last climb together and then someone attacks a kilometre or two form the top and wins or fails to win.  Watching a group of climbers, unless there is the dramatic and exciting "dropping of …" only has the advantage over a sprint stage of always being in the mountains, and therefore joyous to watch.

Cathy Wiggo is an experienced member of a cycling family, and it is easy to see what she means.  Winners make money, winners get the glory and the place in history.  If you can do both panache and winning, its the best of all.  You become a "champion".One of these days, we might see a bit more panache from Wiggo, which would be great.  Or maybe bravery, or courage.  Sometimes Wiggo seems to have got a bit caught in the limits of his talent.  He is brilliant at winning, training, even speaking sometimes, but not so good at panache.  I don't actually see a problem.  Miguel Indurain was not so good at panache.  But he won.  Mind you I never liked Miguel that much, nor his style.

An eternal problem which will never go away.  I go for a balance, skewed toward Panache.  But I live in France, so I would.
mr shifter

Did I see a bit of Panache and determination towards the end of today's stage ?
Bartali

Great post Gerry.  I totally agree ... and its not just a sport thing either.  I see it in other walks of life too.

Mr S ... Absolutely right.  Viviani was brilliant.  Bags of style and panache.  Wink
mr shifter

Bartali wrote:
Great post Gerry.  I totally agree ... and its not just a sport thing either.  I see it in other walks of life too.

Mr S ... Absolutely right.  Viviani was brilliant.  Bags of style and panache.  Wink
Ah, now I understand your meaning of Panache.
It's the thumping of the handlebars is it.  ? Rolling Eyes

Yeh, I know, I will quietly leave the room.
Bartali

Just my little Joke Mr S ... It was a classy finish from Cavendish yesterday.
mr shifter

Bartali wrote:
Just my little Joke Mr S ... It was a classy finish from Cavendish yesterday.
I know it was but I couldn't resist another one.  Wink
Biosphere

Brailsford sides with Froome (for now)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2...ome-team-sky-tour-dave-brailsford
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