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gerry12ie

Giro 2014: Antipasti

1. Out of date Greens in a bitter Orange sauce Wink

A TTT which at 22km might cause some genuine GC gaps.  The only bit I'm familiar with is around Stranmillis College and there is bit of a tricky junction there that narrows and kicks up a bit - other than that the route looks fairly straightforward.





2. Full Ulster Fry with Potato Farls

After a night in Belfast the riders sign on extra early so they can do what everyone else who has spent the night there does - leave.  Except the jokes on them because they then have to come back.  In fact it should be a pretty enough stage if the weather holds up, and with not much wind forecast a certain sprint finish.  I'm sure it would be a nice manageable spin on a narrower loop - note to self.





3. A bowl of Coddle, Soda Bread and a Pint of Plain

There at least seems to have been some genuine enthusiasm in NI for the Giro, but I really haven't encountered too much anticipation for it down here.  I'm still sure that plenty will turn out to watch but pre-race coverage has been pretty thin.  Quelle surpris, rain is forecast for Sunday which might make the final tricky and dangerous. I know of only one small stretch of the coast road that has been recently resurfaced, so hopefully everyone stays safe.



kathy

I have posted an FP thread here

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/sutra219009.php#219009

Please note - this year the race starts on FRIDAY, so make sure you get your FPs in on time!
Nolte

i've ridden a part of the Co. Louth bit before, the last time was my first cycle back after i under went surgery last November Very Happy

i was looking for an easy ride Very Happy
HuwB

Almost ready for the Grand Depart.

TTT start times:

17:50 Colombia
17:55 Orica-GreenEdge
18:00 Tinkoff-Saxo
18:05 FDJ.fr
18:10 Team Katusha
18:15 Movistar Team
18:20 Lotto-Belisol
18:25 Trek Factory Racing
18:30 Belkin Pro Cycling Team
18:35 Team Europcar
18:40 Lampre-Merida
18:45 Team Sky
18:50 Cannondale
18:55 Team Giant-Shimano
19:00 AG2R La Mondiale
19:05 Androni Giocattoli-Venezuela
19:10 Garmin-Sharp
19:15 Bardiani-CSF
19:20 BMC Racing Team
19:25 Omega Pharma-Quick Step
19:30 Astana Pro Team
19:35 Neri Sottoli

TV coverage on Eurosport - also on BBC NI which you should be able to find on your freeview/sat boxes if resident in the UK.
Rai Sport 2, Sporza etc, for those with that option.

On the plus, plus, plus side, it's Kelly and Hatch, not Kirby for the Giro.
Big losers being the Tour, who get Mr Motormouth.
Biosphere

As crazy as it seems, what TV channels I get has been devolved all the way down to my rather small town council and they provide me (and everyone else in the town) with BBC London and NI as standard Smile

Now, if only I wasn't still at work. Should catch the last 45 mins of tonight though.
Boogerd_Fan

looks like OGE have some help from the weather man as well!
HuwB

Movistar currently slower than Colombia. Laughing
HuwB

Purito in the TT toilet again.
Dead last.
HuwB

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
looks like OGE have some help from the weather man as well!


Belkin.....................................last. Wink
Beasley

Before the start, I was expecting a more impressive time from OGE, but going by the conditions I suspect they have a great change of hanging on.

Movistar almost had a mass pile-up going round a tight right-hander. Lost all momentum. Lost almost a minute to the leaders, but more importantly Quintana has a good 30 second head start on J-Rod.
gerry12ie

Course looks tougher than I imagined, few teams look as co-ordinated as they should be and most shedding riders very early.
Boogerd_Fan

HuwB wrote:
Boogerd_Fan wrote:
looks like OGE have some help from the weather man as well!


Belkin.....................................last. Wink



5s off Quintana.. i would say Kelderman and the DS's will be quite happy with that. Certainly in not as much trouble as JRod or Pinot.

the time gaps are so big, it may give Wiening a chance to get in pink again like a few years ago.
Beasley

Sky rode a huge negative split. Well down in the first half, but rode the second half of the course fastest than anyone else. In hindsight, I suspect they didn't push hard enough out of the gate. They could've afforded to burn off another rider or two.

The course looks to be drying out a little.
gerry12ie

Bang! Garmin down like skittles - 4 or 5 hit the deck.  Martin down - and out?
gerry12ie

Martin out
Beasley

Looks like Dan Martin has done his collarbone.

Mixed day for the Irish. Martin out of the race; Nico Roche in prime position to have a few days in Maglia Rosa next week, and perhaps more...
Slapshot 3

Pop goes the fantasy teams... thats rotten luck for Dan....panda powerlet him down there
gerry12ie

Beasley wrote:
Looks like Dan Martin has done his collarbone.

Mixed day for the Irish. Martin out of the race; Nico Roche in prime position to have a few days in Maglia Rosa next week, and perhaps more...


Yep, big day for Saxo.  I wonder will see a special Roche Giro showdown with his co-captain?
Boogerd_Fan

Ufff... that looked like a hard slam
Biosphere

Feck it (wrt Martin)

Evans will be pleased.
gerry12ie

There shouldn't be a minute and a half between GC favourites after one stage.  This should have been a prologue over a shorter distance but if that was the case then you couldn't have a rest day after only two stages.  
Stupid.

It might make for great racing for the next three weeks though... Wink
Biosphere

Biosphere wrote:
Evans will be pleased.


Not as pleased as Uran
maffy

Biosphere wrote:
Not as pleased as Uran


only if he somehow remembers how to climb two weeks hence.
Fontfroide

Martin.  Goodness.  Sad.  Not even able to do something later.

Orica did the job.
Fontfroide

I guess I like it a lot when a grizzled veteran, apparently a decent fellow, a worker, on his birthday.  If it weren't for Dan Martin, you could see this as a Hollywood Day.  Very tasty of the team to let Sven have the jersey on his birthday, very decent.  Makes my heart soar like an eagle.
Slapshot 3

Fontfroide wrote:
I guess I like it a lot when a grizzled veteran, apparently a decent fellow, a worker, on his birthday.  If it weren't for Dan Martin, you could see this as a Hollywood Day.  Very tasty of the team to let Sven have the jersey on his birthday, very decent.  Makes my heart soar like an eagle.


It's what they call Panache   Wink
Fontfroide

Slapshot 3 wrote:
Fontfroide wrote:
I guess I like it a lot when a grizzled veteran, apparently a decent fellow, a worker, on his birthday.  If it weren't for Dan Martin, you could see this as a Hollywood Day.  Very tasty of the team to let Sven have the jersey on his birthday, very decent.  Makes my heart soar like an eagle.


It's what they call Panache   Wink


Indeed.  Good word that.
HuwB

Just seen it.
And that, my friends, is why the TTT has no place in a GT or any other race.
A whole team wiped out within 20 minutes of a hundred hour race.
A horrible, horrible joke.
Bartali

Yup ... that sums it up quite well Huw!  Huge time gaps for GT favourites too.  These TTTs have a hugely disproportionate impact on GTs.  Ridiculous.
Biosphere

Leaving aside the time gap argument for a moment, bad crashes can and do happen anywhere (and to ourselves as well as the folks on the telly).

The last time I think we kicked around the TTT time gap argument, it was about Sky in last year's Tour and the gaps they got there were irrelevant compared to the time Froome subsequently took on the climbs and in the ITTs. He gave it all back with interest in Paris anyway waiting to cross the line with his teammates Wink

I see the arguments against them, I just don't think it's as clear cut as it's often presented.
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:
Leaving aside the time gap argument for a moment, bad crashes can and do happen anywhere (and to ourselves as well as the folks on the telly).

The last time I think we kicked around the TTT time gap argument, it was about Sky in last year's Tour and the gaps they got there were irrelevant compared to the time Froome subsequently took on the climbs and in the ITTs. He gave it all back with interest in Paris anyway waiting to cross the line with his teammates Wink

I see the arguments against them, I just don't think it's as clear cut as it's often presented.


Certainly bad crashes in the peloton can take out more than one team member, at any time, but the TTT has the capacity to destroy an entire team, early in the race.

Net result of Dan Martin totalling the rear half of his squad will probably mean at least 2 men DNS today (2 confirmed broken clavicles) and it's other potential leader holding a 4 minute handicap from a 20km event.
It could have been far worse.
gerry12ie

Heavy, intermittent showers here last night and this morning.  It's been bucketing down for the last few minutes here and I have no reason to think it's any different further up the road.  I noticed Dan's roll call of misfortune since his LBL win - crashed out of Worlds, crashed out of La Vuelta, crashed when sure of a Lombardy podium, and crashed on the last corner at LBL.  Annus Horribilus?
Bartali

One has to ask whether it is simply bad luck, poor or unsuitable equipment or poor bike skills.  Not having a go at the lad ... I'm genuinely sorry for him.

As for the TTT I don't think the Froome argument is at all relevant.  The big time gaps early on in the race determine the way the whole race proceeds.  Last year, for example, Sky could control things so much easier knowing their lad already had a head start on half of his competitors.  But it goes much deeper than just whether Froome would still win.  Its the dynamic between all the competitors that shape the race.  Ultimately, I can't see why a 20km TTT should have such a great impact on a race ... indeed the whole TT is disproportionate IMO in an era where huge mountains are causing gaps in seconds not many minutes as in the past.
Boogerd_Fan

speaking of the past... some BBC reading material on Bartali:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27333310

to pass time before the sprinting fireworks later
ventoux

gerry12ie wrote:
Heavy, intermittent showers here last night and this morning.  It's been bucketing down for the last few minutes here and I have no reason to think it's any different further up the road.....

Was in Belfast yesterday, and it was quite miserable at times.... have to confess that my plans to head up to Giant's Causeway today were derailed by the weather forecast.... (OK- I'm a softie  Embarassed ) - I'll watch the bunch sprint on TV later.... but probably not the boost to tourism that was hoped for....  Sad
Biosphere

Bahamontes blogs

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/...iros-biggest-obstacle-the-weather
HuwB

OK, so in the two hours of coverage, absolutely nothing has happened, except for the expected rain.
Beasley

I'm surprised RCS didn't mandate that the road furniture had to be pulled-up when they gave the start to Belfast.

Granted they have more bargaining power, but the ASO are infamous for the demands they place on stage hosts when le Tour comes to town.
gerry12ie

Totally uneventful and predictable and a very easy win for Marcel the Giant.  Expect the same tomorrow though I think the weather might not be quite as bad.  That said it is pissing here at the moment...
Beasley

Kittel with ease. Bike lengths faster than anyone else.

Cannondale put in a lot of work in the run-in, but their boy Viviani didn't have anything to give.
HuwB

It was that dull, it could have been the Tour.
Even the sprint was naff.
gerry12ie

Dunquerke highlights afterwards cheered me up though, the usual attacking racing you would expect from the 4/5/6 days.
Boogerd_Fan

Kelderman won 3 seconds today by keeping up with the sprinters hi5
gerry12ie

As stupid as I think this whole exercise is, I'm off to Malahide to watch the Giro Very Happy

I'm trying to imagine the logistical nightmare the teams will face trying to get stuff to Bari for Tuesday.  I presume the likes of Sky and Astana can afford to have buses, gear and staff at either end, but I reckon the smaller teams will be really stretched.  The buses will probably leave Dublin port tonight for either Wales or France and then have to drive non-stop I guess.  No wonder Willy Voet and the rest of the 'old boys' were all speed freaks Wink
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
As stupid as I think this whole exercise is, I'm off to Malahide to watch the Giro Very Happy


It's never stupid to go to the Giro. Have fun Smile

With respect to the transfer, until a few weeks ago and I started reading up, I had assumed the first stage in Italy would be a TTT so those bikes could be there already giving an extra day for the road kit to make the journey from Ireland. And when the buses reach the Italian border they've still got a long, long way to go.
Boogerd_Fan

i heard it was 28hrs - drive, ferry, drive, tunnel, drive... the rest day is more for the support crew than it is for the riders!
Biosphere

28 hours seems too fast to me but maybe it's not . . .

Since we will most likely have people looking in here over the day, there is an FP thread for Cali for those that are interested. I will be soft on a cut off time tonight (within reason) given the short notice.

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/sutra219165.php#219165
Boogerd_Fan

Mixed fortunes for belkin... tjallingi the machine defending blue jersey
.... but kelderman on the deck
HuwB

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
Mixed fortunes for belkin... tjallingi the machine defending blue jersey
.... but kelderman on the deck


He seemed OK, which is more than can be said for Manuel Belletti.
Biosphere

Have had it on in the background since about 110km to go. A long wet road to Dublin, although it is brighter at the finish now.

Happy Birthday to Kittel it seems.
kathy

Hewlett back now
Biosphere

Few Astana bodies on ground. Scarponi got moving again as did the others but it looked painful  for them all.
HuwB

Basso puncture and not getting a great deal of help to get back.
Gasparotto's face looked a bit cut up.
Biosphere

For those not used to Ireland, the difference in weather at the back of the peloton versus the head of a break with a 2.5 min advantage must seem a bit surprising Smile
HuwB

All that Dutch street furniture, yet Belkin seem to be involved in so many crashes.
Beasley

Kittel's just too strong. He had to come from a good 3-4 bike lengths back, too.

Swift 2nd - EBH did the leadout, and did a pretty good job. Jumped about five places in the chicane alone.

Viviani 3rd - Again, a lot of work by his team, but no cigar. They lost the head of the race with ~500m to go and just disappeared.

Did Roche get back on?
Boogerd_Fan

That confirms for me Kittel is more than just the fastest.... 3-4 bike lengths made up in the final sprint buf after the two left handers before the final chicane he was even further back!!

I guess confidence and good legs makes up a lot of ground
Nolte

Beasley wrote:
Kittel's just too strong. He had to come from a good 3-4 bike lengths back, too.

Swift 2nd - EBH did the leadout, and did a pretty good job. Jumped about five places in the chicane alone.

Viviani 3rd - Again, a lot of work by his team, but no cigar. They lost the head of the race with ~500m to go and just disappeared.

Did Roche get back on?


cqranking has him at 11 seconds so yeah
HuwB

Had visitors, 3kms from the finish.
Just watched and I have to say I thought
Kittel was toast, right up until he wasn't.

Frighteningly faster than Viviani (in front) and Bouhanni. (on his wheel)
Boogerd_Fan

Majka the "big" winner today, 11 secs for making that front group of sprinters...

Scarponi was in there too somehow, despite being on the deck with 30-40km to go.
gerry12ie

The rain mainly held off and I was quite surprised at the amount of people that were on the roads and pinked up.  Irish people have a tremendous capacity for going out and pointing at things, and was nice to see a good crowd out, pointing.

Haven't seen the finish but no surprise there at all - Kittel is simply much faster than the rest these days.  I am surprised that Scarponi got back on however, as he was quite a bit back at Malahide (20k odd) and he certainly looked beat up.  He's a tough old boot though...
HuwB

Biggest loser: 185 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Team Katusha
2 minutes 34 seconds down. (and GC out)
Mrs John Murphy

Does anyone know of any decent internet feeds for the Giro?

I don't want to be stuck watching the f-ing Tour of California.
Fontfroide

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Does anyone know of any decent internet feeds for the Giro?



Today in particular, I found every single feed either unavailable to French folks, or fuzzy and hard to watch.  In the recent past, the feed that comes from Bein has been better than the others, but not that much.  The French feed was mediocre today as well.

But I must say what a pleasure it always is to watch the free feed from the USA.  They do a good job, picture as clear as my regular TV.

In other words, no.
berck

Mrs John Murphy wrote:

I don't want to be stuck watching the f-ing Tour of California.


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink
Mrs John Murphy

berck wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:

I don't want to be stuck watching the f-ing Tour of California.


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink


It is shit.
Biosphere

I haven't tried it, but if I had to, I would try spoofing an Italian IP address and using RAI's own live web feeds or catch up service. It used to be that catch up needed to wait till next calendar day rather than a few mins after broadcast finished, but that's info that's now two years old, so it's in need of updating.
Fontfroide

berck wrote:


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink


The thing is, the calendar is already jam packed, getting worse all the time.  As a fan of cycling, there is already too much.  Especially when there are two important races or one very important and one minorly important, at the same time.  

I have a better question.  Why SHOULD there be a fourth, then a fifth, then a sixth GT, plus more and more travelling to outside Europe places for races that mean nothing to anyone serious.  More is not always the answer.  Frequently "enough" is a good response to many questions.

A minor point is that the roads in many countries and the lack of ski stations means the races are really not that interesting.  I still am reminded when I see the American races riding to the top of a mountain on a road that is three or four lanes wide, with a gradient made for lorries with heavy loads.  Just not terribly good TV, nor very interesting for spectators.  

Maybe the races could be trimmed a bit to just have exciting bits, as currently there are many boring stretches of racing.  Like maybe thirty k to warm up and then the big sprint or the big climb.  Just kidding.  We have to have the boring bits of life and of cycling.  Boring and exciting cannot be separated.

The epitome of this is the Tour of Qatar, no spot in the entire country higher than 128m.  Just money, money money.  I won't mention World Cup jokes at all.

That's my take anyway.
Boogerd_Fan

yesterday was "slightly" interesting as SKY and OPQS used the width of the road and the crosswind to form echelons.. other than that, i fully agree, it's a shame we get the best live feed from one of the most energy sapping races in terms of visual content!
Slapshot 3

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
berck wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:

I don't want to be stuck watching the f-ing Tour of California.


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink


It is shit.


Guess that covers it...... actually the racing was pretty good on St 1
mazda

Fontfroide wrote:
berck wrote:


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink


A minor point is that the roads in many countries and the lack of ski stations means the races are really not that interesting.  I still am reminded when I see the American races riding to the top of a mountain on a road that is three or four lanes wide, with a gradient made for lorries with heavy loads.  Just not terribly good TV, nor very interesting for spectators.  


Well, they are going up to a ski-station later in the week, although the queen stage is Mt Hamilton and Mt Diablo.

So at least the last couple of km will be on a smaller road, although not in the European goat-track style.
mr shifter

berck wrote:


What's wrong with the future 4th GT? Wink
Sorry berck, but California has to compete with other well established 8-10 day races that don't have antlers.
The 12 day Tour du Suisse was always known to be the fourth major race in the calendar before the UCI interfered with it.
I would put Paris-Nice, Dauphine and others in Spain and Italy in front of TOC and they are not GT's.

A 4th GT needs to be three weeks to qualify as a GT.

These 21st Century races are still trying to improve their parcours to European standards with the UCI trying to shoe-horn them into the calendar.
There is no chance the UCI want a 4th GT as they are promoting so many other races.

This past week we have had the 4 Jour Dunkirk (formerly 6 days and now cut to 5 days) and yet another new one the Elite Tour of Azerbaijan and the week before the Tour of Turkey.

The Calendar is getting a bit crowded for another GT.
Biosphere

berck wrote:
. . . Wink


I could be wrong, but I think the not serious symbol was the only part of Berck’s post that was meant to be taken seriously Smile
Bartali

LOL Smile
Boogerd_Fan

IF wiggins doesn't screw up.. i'm sure it will be lauded as the 4th largest stage race after a GT.
Biosphere

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
IF wiggins doesn't screw up.. i'm sure it will be lauded as the 4th largest stage race after a GT.


Well Leipheimer tried the same argument to dope his Palmares a few years back and no one took him seriously Smile
mr shifter

Biosphere wrote:
berck wrote:
. . . Wink


I could be wrong, but I think the not serious symbol was the only part of Berck’s post that was meant to be taken seriously Smile
Oh berck often makes a serious point and then says it was just a joke but I hope my post has shown what a stupid joke it is.
The Californians may have a good product within their resources and much better than some of the other stage races but my post should show it's limitations in the calender.  Laughing  Laughing

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