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HuwB

Giro 2013: Dolce, Cafe, but no Grappa? May 23rd-26th

Only posting Maps for potentially unaffected stages.
No point of posting climb details either, but those 2
"fantasy" mountain stage profiles could well be of debatable
interest.

Stage 18:

Map:


Profile:


Finish:


Stage 19:

Original profile:


Stage 20:

Original profile:



Stage 21:

Map:


Profile:


Finish
HuwB

Gavia today...

Fontfroide

That's what I call a dramatic pile of roadside snow.  Guess it depends a bit on what kind of snow it is, the slidey avanlanchy type or hard packed stuff that just gradually melts.  It does give a little bit of protection from the wind.

In France, Climbs like the Tourmalet are not even cleared yet, you just cannot ride or drive at all.
Bartali

Looks perfectly ridable to me ... the Galibier always has snow by the roadside even in July.
ullrichfan

Bloody hell, Bart - are you Santa in disguise?
mr shifter

Bartali wrote:
Looks perfectly ridable to me ... the Galibier always has snow by the roadside even in July.
That's pushing it a tiny bit of exaggeration.
I been out there with the Dauphine and passed several times over the Galibier without snow anywhere near the road.
You mean you have it on your  scratch tourist circuit. (can't remember it's name)
Boogerd_Fan

You get the feeling if one of the riders sneezes, the whole group will get a fresh layer of white powder... and not the kind Tommeke can supply.
Bartali

Near the top of the Galibier in July 2011 (before I lost 5kg) ... plenty of snow!!

JohnD

Looking cool Bartali!
ventoux

JohnD wrote:
Looking cool Bartali!


Cold, I would have thought.....  Cool
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
Looks perfectly ridable to me ... the Galibier always has snow by the roadside even in July.


It's the temperature as well that's the problem. Forecast I saw yesterday was -14°C on top of the the Stelvio (well I think it was the Stelvio, but certainly on one of the upcoming climb / passes and certainly -14°C).

Looking stylish on the Galibier  - my in-laws would approve of the choice of clothing, but I'm scratching my head wondering what's wrong with Italian tailoring Wink

HuwB wrote:
Tappa 18: Tanel Kangert, please.


Thought a fair bit about him and a bit less about Kessiakoff, but decided against them both on the basis that they might be told to save themselves for the potential climbs ahead. We shall see.
gerry12ie

Biosphere wrote:


Looking stylish on the Galibier  - my in-laws would approve of the choice of clothing, but I'm scratching my head wondering what's wrong with Italian tailoring Wink



I would worry more about the obviously made up dossard... Wink
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
I would worry more about the obviously made up dossard... Wink
scratch
gerry12ie

Bartali wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
I would worry more about the obviously made up dossard... Wink
scratch


4567...
Biosphere

Kid on the big bike and yellow jersey has made me smile.
HuwB

Tomorrows stage will be Ponte di Legno - Tonale - Passo Castrin - Passo delle Foreste - Val Martello.
Bartali

Game on ....
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
Bartali wrote:
gerry12ie wrote:
I would worry more about the obviously made up dossard... Wink
scratch


4567...
Laughing  Laughing
Bartali

Uran suffering at the first time check ...
Bartali

Nibali well down on Evans???
Bartali

YES .... Nibali is flying!!!
HuwB

He's going to win this by 2 minutes, without breaking sweat.
Biosphere

So Uran and Evans are not going so well. I'm getting bothered by Nibali's strength.
Bartali

Really?  Other than today this has been eeked out day by day.  Uran would be on par had it not been for Wiggins ... and the other two favourites went home ill.
Bartali

Nibs getting some great motor pacing here .... Embarassed  Embarassed
HuwB

Nibali is having Wiggins's last season.
Biosphere

Uran recovered well. I would say that Nibali had been in control and managing gaps rather than eeking things out. Looks like he's going to take 2:40 off Evans.
Fontfroide

One has to say Nibs did the job, the others did not.  So simple.  Two more stages to not make a mistake.  Massive problem for Cadel.
Bartali

YES!!!
Fontfroide

Poor Samu waited all that time.

What is more amazing is averaging nearly 28 uphill.  And others 26 or more.  I cannot do that on the flat even on short ride.  but then I am 35 years older than any of them, and my bike is heavier. Wink

Giants.
HuwB

Only wins by a minute?
A man playing with boys.
This Giro has been even more of a one horse race than the Tour.
At least Wiggins had Froome.
Biosphere

4 mins on GC! Podium left to play for depending on weather.
sabcarrera

Nibali was Basso's Froome in 2010
mazda

Sanchez into top 10 on GC though.

Do you think Nibali will let the others play nicely for second place now ?
Bartali

But in fairness Huw we have lost two of the favourites.  But for that, the race and gaps might have been very different.
Fontfroide

I guess it will be fun to watch how the positions 2-10 change and shift over the next couple days.
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:
4 mins on GC! Podium left to play for depending on weather.


Evans will fade. Boots will finish 2nd or 3rd by going backwards less than the rest.. Uran could go anywhere.
Betancur will take white.
The winning margin will be whatever Nibali wants it to be.
He'll probably just follow wheels, but if he fancies taking a mountain stage, he can, at will.
Bartali

But for the stupid fall in week one, Boots would be much closer to the podium.
HuwB

They are still fighting to keep the Gavia and Stelvio in the race. A lot of snow cleared in the recent slot of fine weather.
However, realistically, we have to face the fact that the weather will most likely win the battle and we will get this, as the alternative:

Biosphere

I guess you saw the snow clearing efforts on the RAI post mortem. The pictures looked promising, but I guess as you say the weather forecast is a different story.

I think Uran will move into second by the end. He did a strong second half today so looks like he was being measured in what he did. Scarponi might be close enough for the podium as well. The finish posted below looks like about 22km averaging somewhere between 6 and 7% (1350m gain) so Evans may have enough left to hang on - Scarponi needs to find 1:12. A win bonus gets him more than a quarter of that so I guess breaks will be chased down by those that might benefit. I think Nibali will want a win though, so all round we should at least get properly contested climbs.
Bartali

Like you say Bio ... it could still be a race.
HuwB

Stelvio and Gavia confirmed as out.

Confirmed as new route - Stage 19:


http://gallery.mailchimp.com/823d...files/Val_Martello_definitiva.pdf
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
Like you say Bio ... it could still be a race.


But I would say the main race is definitely over barring an accident, mechanical or some outside intervention. Which I don't have a problem with as such - we made it to Stage 18 before the result was clear, but it is a shame that the weather has interfered in the way it has.

I do think Nibali has been riding within himself up to now though and today was the first day he lit it up. Any what ifs about Uran and Scarponi being closer barring misfortune / team orders I would say are not so clear cut as I think he would just have generated those gaps on the road had he needed to.  I accept your arguments that he hasn't had the fight taken to him and other pre race favourites had their misfortune, but to me he just seems a much stronger rider than he has done in the past so I ask questions rather than draw conclusions.
mr shifter

Biosphere wrote:
So Uran and Evans are not going so well. I'm getting bothered by Nibali's strength.
Bartali (some time ago) wrote:
You cynic Mr S Wink
Too good to be true I thought  Exclamation
Not really it seems because
Quote:
Nibali finished third at the Junior World Time Trial Championship in 2002 and also third at the U-23 World Time Trial Championship in 2004.


Bartali wrote:

Nibs getting some great motor pacing here .... Embarassed  Embarassed

The wife didn't like that either and when I made the excuse the motor was close only because of the idiot crowds.
In her own little world she said that was cheating because the other bikes kept their distance as she kept making the point with each camera shot.
Beasley

Had Uran not stopped for Wiggins all those days day he'd be at 2'30ish rather than 4+, but I think that would be an underestimation of Nibali's strength.

When it comes down to it, Vince is just better. Perhaps having Wiggins at 100% would have changed the dynamics of the race, but I don't think it would have changed the fact Vince is just too strong for this field over that terrain.
CapeRoadie

None of the performances are clean.
HuwB

It'll never happen.
Snow at the start town.
Snowing down to 500 metres.
http://www.ilmeteo.eu/meteo/Ponte%20di%20legno
Biosphere

Hmmm. That's something like 12 to15cm of snow by stage start time  Confused
Bartali

Sad
HuwB

Passo Tonale is now closed.
Little doubt that the Stage will be cancelled.
Fontfroide

HuwB wrote:
Passo Tonale is now closed.
Little doubt that the Stage will be cancelled.


Putain de merde.  That IS serous.  Maybe I can get a ride in this afternoon.  Keep us appraised or tell us where you get the information.
Biosphere

It's official now

http://translate.google.com/trans...aa5%26id%3D13a26d94c4&act=url

They've had approx a weeks notice about this - should have had a proper back up of using Apennines instead.
Fontfroide

Biosphere wrote:
It's official now

They've had approx a weeks notice about this - should have had a proper back up of using Apennines instead.


Thanks Bio.  Damn.  Off out on the bike, so not all is lost.
sabcarrera

Biosphere wrote:
It's official now

http://translate.google.com/trans...aa5%26id%3D13a26d94c4&act=url

They've had approx a weeks notice about this - should have had a proper back up of using Apennines instead.


It's snowing in the Appennines too
Biosphere

sabcarrera wrote:
It's snowing in the Appennines too


Fair enough. I thought they might be able to go south across the Po valley and use some of the lesser climbs on the other side. Not practical anyway with hotels, closing towns and all the rest of the infrastructure - just found it frustrating this morning and was speaking without thinking.
Bartali

Sad  Sad
Bartali

When men were men ...  Shocked

Bartali

Stage 20 is now this ....


Fontfroide

Looks like a 150 k climb with a couple wee dips in the middle.  That could be fun.  And a sharp up at the end.
HuwB

Bartali wrote:
Stage 20 is now this ....




See, now this is what I was worried about. They come up with a plan B that keeps both the start and finish towns, just like today.
Result? Neither takes place.

The no brainer would have been to move the start 60 odd kms, down to the far side of Bolzano.
That way, they had the option of taking the same main roads as in that profile, plus a loop that included the Passo di Monte Croce (1636 metres)and the Passo del Zovo (1476 metres),then a long run down into Cortina and up the Tre Croce/Cimi to the finish.
If Cimi was impossible (as seems likely, atm) at least there would be a couple of climbs in, to beef up what is supposed to be the Queen stage.

Now, if Cimi is impossible, there is no other option, but a possible finish on Tre Croce.
Geraint

Looks like a really boring course this year
sabcarrera

Biosphere wrote:
sabcarrera wrote:
It's snowing in the Appennines too


Fair enough. I thought they might be able to go south across the Po valley and use some of the lesser climbs on the other side. Not practical anyway with hotels, closing towns and all the rest of the infrastructure - just found it frustrating this morning and was speaking without thinking.


I don't think anyone expected this. I was hoping to get on the bike this morning but v cold rain and snow at about 1000 m. Another problem here in the Appennines that has been caused by rain are the landslides. Some villages have been demolished and many roads have disappeared, including the ones I ride. Even those that are still passable have either narrowed, sunk or have been repaired with gravel.
About 3 weeks back I thought I could ride across a crack and the back wheel went into it about 6 inches.
Zomegnan must be laughing his socks off.
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
. . . That way, they had the option of taking the same main roads as in that profile, plus a loop that included the Passo di Monte Croce (1636 metres)and the Passo del Zovo (1476 metres),then a long run down into Cortina and up the Tre Croce/Cimi to the finish . . . .


I suspect part of their reasoning is to now avoid any descents that would be taken at race pace because of the conditions. Today and tomorrow are screwed basically. Limp along to Sunday is the plan - day by day cancellation if needed.
HuwB

The Giro that never was.
Doubt we'll ever see it's like again.
http://www.mountain-forecast.com/...e-Cime-di-Lavaredo/forecasts/2973

Strangely enough, the frustration I felt at last week's stages been effected, has been replaced by indifference at this week's cancellation/s.

Never thought there'd be one, but this is a Giro to forget.
gerry12ie

Yes - since last week the general feeling for me is just flat, flat, flat.  Nibali's clear superiority certainly contributes but there was just an inevitability about last weekend's alterations/go-slow and this weekend's cancellations that took the gloss off the whole race.

Let's face it Nibali beat a guy who a few weeks ago probably wasn't going to race the Giro, a bloody good Colombian who only stepped up to the plate after Wiggins went home, and Scarponi who is hardly in the first flush of youth.  Yes the weather has been shocking and arduous, but given that he has hardly broken a sweat might Nibs yet ride the Tour?  I note the bookies have dragged him into the Tour betting in the last week from 50/1 to 20/1...

Shame, but sadly a Giro to forget.
Biosphere

gerry12ie wrote:
. . .  Yes the weather has been shocking and arduous, but given that he has hardly broken a sweat might Nibs yet ride the Tour?  I note the bookies have dragged him into the Tour betting in the last week from 50/1 to 20/1 . . .


I was thinking today it's a certaintity he would do the Tour now. As you say, he's hardly broken a sweat so the usual 'rule' about being to tired after the Giro probably doesn't apply.

sabcarrera wrote:
Another problem here in the Appennines that has been caused by rain are the landslides. Some villages have been demolished and many roads have disappeared, including the ones I ride. Even those that are still passable have either narrowed, sunk or have been repaired with gravel.


I hadn't heard any of that. I had experienced the floods first hand around Genova / Cinqueterre in 2010 and 2011 but was unaware of there being recent problems. Sounds terrible. These supposedly once in a lifetime events are happening with alarming regularity. Puts the cancellation of a sporting event into perspective.

HuwB wrote:
http://www.mountain-forecast.com/...e-Cime-di-Lavaredo/forecasts/2973


They're not going up there are they. Queen stage reduced to a ~600m climb Sad
If that.

EDIT: Optimistic or in a state of denial?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/g...aredo-in-spite-of-snow-says-vegni
sabcarrera

Biosphere wrote:

sabcarrera wrote:
Another problem here in the Appennines that has been caused by rain are the landslides. Some villages have been demolished and many roads have disappeared, including the ones I ride. Even those that are still passable have either narrowed, sunk or have been repaired with gravel.


I hadn't heard any of that. I had experienced the floods first hand around Genova / Cinqueterre in 2010 and 2011 but was unaware of there being recent problems. Sounds terrible. These supposedly once in a lifetime events are happening with alarming regularity. Puts the cancellation of a sporting event into perspective.


One of my climbs

http://www.gazzettadiparma.it/pri...ltre_80_milioni_in_Appennino.html
Beasley

Ultimately, the RCS have a duty of care to the participants in their event and with conditions being what they are letting the stage go ahead, even in its modified form, would be lawsuits waiting to happen.

RCS no doubt look after No. 1, but sometimes the best way to protect No. 1 is to look after No. 2.
HuwB

Watching RAI live now. Wow! That's a heck of a lot of snow on Tre Cimi. Lots of talk, but no yes or no. Frankly, I'll be amazed if they get up there. At least the road is clear.
Slapshot 3

The Giro has been a bit of a non entity for me this year, managed to see just one and a half stages and it's been disappointing to see the way the weather has hammered the route this year. Mind you it's been nice seeing the change in Nibs from last year, I see him at a whole new level, one that was ready to beat UK Postal!! Hope he goes to Le Tour
Biosphere

HuwB wrote:
Watching RAI live now. Wow! That's a heck of a lot of snow on Tre Cimi. Lots of talk, but no yes or no. Frankly, I'll be amazed if they get up there. At least the road is clear.


Having seen the pictures I'm more optimistic than I was after last night's weather forecast.  They might make it. The road is in much better condition than I expected. If it doesn't snow too much it's doable.
Biosphere

Snowing at the notional finish now.

EDIT: -3°C at finish. Snow looks to be getting heavier.
HuwB

Some with no arm or leg warmers in the valley.
Doubt they'll finish like that!
No idea whether or not this stage will contain a climb.
Nolte

if it does, i hope the final climb is an orwellian dream

by which i mean, stationery cameras everywhere Very Happy
HuwB

Well, this route is every bit as dull as expected.
Main road blues.
Bartali

The finish looks cooooold!
HuwB

The finish looks like it's going to be as invisible as last Saturday. Sad
Bartali

Its cleared up now but anything can happen in the mountains ...
Biosphere

Wondering how on Earth Popovych is still riding a bike given everything that has happened?

Main road blues, but a hint of blue skies at the finish Smile
Bartali

Did the Feds ever get to shine the bright lamp in his face?
Bartali

Whats Popo after ... tv coverage?  Betancur with a mechanical??
Bartali

Here we go ... climb on!
Bartali

I'm not sure at all about these Katush helmets
MS

Ten years ago, Popovych was on the final podium of the Giro, after a stellar amateur pedigree. I would've bet the farm he was going to win the Giro at some point.
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
Whats Popo after ... tv coverage?  Betancur with a mechanical??


I guess Popovych has to have a go having been out front all day even if it's a lost cause. Bad timing for Betancur.
Bartali

Is it horrible to hope Betancur is lost just because it helps in Noels game?? Umm ... would wish that on the poor lad.
HuwB

I wonder if Santambrogio was rooming with DDL?
He went out the back very early.

Has Atapuma finally turned up?
Bartali

There's a Brit with his beer ... somethings never change!
Bartali

Is Betancur back on??  Good lad.
Fontfroide

Atapuma caught, but at last I saw him.  Since I picked him, it is good to see he exists.  What a bad pick!
Bartali

Pavel Brut is in pieces ... good ride!
Biosphere

I like Pirazzi giving it a go even though he more or less has it wrapped up for the KOM.
Bartali

I'm glad he's made the summit.  Have a bit of a rest and then cruise up to the finish ... tranquillo!
Fontfroide

Points in the pocket for anyone from Wales who picked him.
HuwB

That would be moi.
Brutt goes on forever. Much like Kiri.
Bartali

He's in a world of pain.
Biosphere

The Irish will be having their share of Pirazzi too Smile

He's going down fighting.
Bartali

Atapuma again .... yo yo men
Bartali

Cappechi is a classy looking rider ...
Fontfroide

Bartali I would appreciate if you would not call names especially about my man Darwin who has been a total disappointment for the entire race.  I would call him bold and courageous.  Even if I know he could not possibly win.

Allez Darwin.

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