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HuwB

Giro 2012: Dolce, Cafe and a Large Grappa-May 26th-27th

So, to the end: the tail with a sting.
Cima "Tiny" Coppi - Stage 20:
Map

Profile

Climbs (the little leg breaker)

Is the new Mortirolo road the hardest yet?

The big leg breaker

Last Tortuous kms


Stage 21:
Map

Er...Profile


The End!
Boogerd_Fan

the stelvio might be long, but its not hard enough (imo)... the only way it'll force a selection smaller than the 6 we saw on Wednesday would be if Liquigas try something on the Mortirolo - what is much harder pitch (for Hesjedal)!
Guiness

Yup the Stelvio is long but not hard (I've ridden it myself, and that says it all!). All the action will be on the Mortirolo and I guess by the time they get to Stelvio they will be drained from the action that took place on that.
Severo

What's the thinking about how much Rodiguez needs before the time trial to hang on? (From Hesjedal/Basso?)
Beasley

2.5s/km is considered a comfortable margin in the ITT world and on that course J-Rod will need more than a comfortable margin.

90s (minimum 70s) needed tomorrow if he's to stand a chance of being competitive. That would push the gap out to 1-47, which equates to just under 3.5s/km.
Boogerd_Fan

a very strong breakaway has been allowed to go
maffy

looks to be garmen and colnagos having to do the chasing
gerry12ie

Guardini, Rollin, Velasco and another DQ'd.  Anyone hear why?
kathy

If Purito TT's like he did at the start of the race, I don't think he'llneed a lot.  And Basso's TT hasnt been up to much laely, has it?
kathy

Gerry,  think it was a mattter of sticky cars again!
Kreuziger in the breakaway!
Slapshot 3

Mortirolo - that is all
gerry12ie

Yep seems to be sticky cars alright.  Bloody stupid way to finish a Grand Tour.  I always feel guilty watching a day like today but the local off licence had some 75cl Westmalle Tripel so I am sure in an hour or too I won't feel quite as bad.  You have got to feel for all of them on a day like today though...
kathy

Go, Purito!
HuwB

kathy wrote:
If Purito TT's like he did at the start of the race, I don't think he'llneed a lot.  And Basso's TT hasnt been up to much laely, has it?


Earlier, on the 3rd cat, did you see Purito deliberately ride off course and into a couple of guys holding a banner?
The first BIG word was Purito, so, I don't think the rest could have been good!

I'm still watching, 20 minutes down on the bunch, so I can't actually comment of the race. Embarassed
Boogerd_Fan

20 mins behind the live coverage?

don't change the dial in cca 15 mins then!

finally movement!
kathy

l ooks like they've ganged up on Hespedal!
HuwB

Well, that's a rather "interesting" new route up the Mortirolo. I like!
Tiralongo's face plant, I not like.
I'm off the descent and in between the climbs. Razz
kathy

Think you've just about caught up then, Huw!
gerry12ie

Well I certainly wouldn't have that there would be a new clutch of riders back in contention before the last climb of the race.  This might shuffle the top ten around big time!
Severo

So this is it for the climbing! Hope it's good as I have the toilet to fix after it's done.
gerry12ie

Severo wrote:
So this is it for the climbing! Hope it's good as I have the toilet to fix after it's done.


An adjustable wrench and a bottle of Westmalle Tripel are the men for that job! drunken
gerry12ie

CVV doing a great job here
kathy

Will we get any fireworks?  If so,when?
gerry12ie

De Gendt goes!
maffy

allez tdg!
Severo

I think I will leave the toilet until Monday as I don't think the wife is best pleased I've been watching for so long...

De Gendt riding a Bianchi - should get an extra prize for riding a Bianchi and winning the Cima Coppi.
maffy

tdg interview link for yous to save for later

taking some time out now, he is.
gerry12ie

Didn't De Gendt do a huge TT into Paris last year?
maffy

yep. he was knacked from an early crash, and came back in the last weekend
maffy

35seconds to pink
Severo

Scarponi and Basso have the most to lose from De Gendt?
gerry12ie

Any chance of this actually being historic?
maffy

gerry12ie wrote:
Any chance of this actually being historic?


first colombian inna comedy-nose'n'spex combo leading the group in gt queen stage?
Severo

Just had a look through some past time trials. I think De Gendt is the best time trialist. He could even find himself in pink this evening. Anywhere near, and he'll have to be the favourite to win overall.
maffy

"unless of course they simply look at at each other and do knack all" Laughing

again
Fontfroide

I am sure I have marked Uran as a good time trialler too.  Must look it up.
gerry12ie

Straight shoot out between the Belge and the Canadien tomorrow?
gerry12ie

If you listen carefully you can hear the sound of the Liquigas one hand-clap stopping...
maffy

henao shouldn't have done that. go scarpers.
maffy

way to go, tdg!
maffy

red for jrod? think so.
gerry12ie

Well well that was a corker.  De Gendt, J-Rod, Cunego, CVV all deserve a very special mention.  I'm off to cook an anniversary dinner of black pasta with chilli and prawns followed by baked marinated Sea Bass with new potatoes and a rhubarb compote.  Beats fixing a toilet (I actually did that this morning)...
gerry12ie

maffy wrote:
red for jrod? think so.


I think so too
Fontfroide

gerry12ie wrote:
Straight shoot out between the Belge and the Canadien tomorrow?


Ryder has a pretty good gap.  I doubt there will be any contest.  Ryder did not look wasted today.  A Canadian winning the Giro?  Almost a certainty.

As for red, if I am not mistaken that last sprint might have won J Rod the jersey.  We will know shortly.
HuwB

We had to wait for the last road stage for this Giro to deliver the goods.
Truly epic stage, even if it was a long wait on the Stelvio for things to kick off.
Purito? Just knew he was going to mug Hesjedal, Scarponi and in the process, Cav, by about a single point. (well done Messrs Ferrari and Pozzato)
Ryder rode a bit dull, imo. By TT definition, Rodriguez was the guy under the most pressure, yet the Canadian did all the graft and paid the price.
maffy

that dirtroad at val pola was an unexpected bonus. if only we'd done this last weekend instead of arsing aboot looking at each other a lot waiting for the big one.
HuwB

De Gendt still remains a threat for pink.
Harmon talking about him being the "nearest" to Hesjedal, in terms of ITT ability, but in reality, he's much better. He took over 3 and a half minutes out of Ryder, in last year's TDF, over 43kms.
We all know he's got some engine.

Disappointed, but not surprised be Rodriguez's tactic of doing what he does best. He needed to be a little more "ballsy" and gamble outside of his comfort zone a bit.
Who dares wins and all that.

One other question remains: Can Cav finish 15th or better, tomorrow?
maffy

harmon's done ok, but kelly's been totally excellent this giro. hope they kill the "please tell us where we're wrong on twitter" aspect of it and just do their jobs.
the rai adbreaks have made me switch over a few times, even if they only last for 30seconds or so. plenty of stuff not picked up until tomorrow in the replays for eurosport. a bit substandard for a pay service.

can cav pick up a 15th or better in a >30k tt? well, that'll be special. i've rather liked his going all the way around thing. rai's been a bit meh this year. suppose they've polished what they could. j-rod could do it too, the way he's spilak improved this year. honest.
Beasley

The best I can come up with is the final ITT in 2008 were he finished 36th, just over a minute outside the top 15.

Stranger things have happened, but it would be a bit of a turn up for the books. Depends how depleted the field is, I suppose.
Slapshot 3

That was spectaular this afternoon and de Ghent really created some nerves for the rest of them, question for tomorrow is how much can TDG recover for the ITT. I think it's all still up in the air, could be an exciting couple of hours tomorrow
Boogerd_Fan

well it took a completely unexpected attack from probably one of the most unfancied riders in the top 10 to actually wake up this race!

the Mortirolo move was all-or-nothing - de Gendt could've blown up at any time in the last 25km after bridging and then breaking apart the breakaway as the Stelvio started.

Great stuff behind too... whatever to say about JV and his team, Garmin got it right today - VdV was a welcome sight for a flaky looking Hesjedal - - you could see the strain on his face! But a decent pace set by vdv on the first 15km of the pass, certainly enough effort to discourage any attacking from out of the maglia rosa group. Followed by Hesjedal managing to stage a late surge as damage limitation to de Gendt.

For all of JRod's "last chance to try something" talk, his stabs on Mortirolo were never long enough to dislodge Hesjedal's rhythm, and the extra 15s he grabbed in todays final 1.5km is typical of his style, but sadly also why without gambling, he's not going to win a GT.

But had he done it further down, i assume he'd have ended up like a fading Scarponi - who looked strong until that final km.

Basso proves he's too old against these riders in their peak years... the engine just didn't get going today it seemed.

then there is de Gendt. Arriving into the race with a plan to try for a good GC, who would've even thought he'd have a nailed on podium spot and even a shot at the pink jersey on the final TT. Gutsy riding... deserving of the pink. It's through his own endeavour today - - along with the overly defensive racing of the favourites - - thats given him an outside chance. What a shame that while the other podium contenders found an extra few kmph in the final 1km... de Gendt seemed to fade quite badly and lost back a minute to the chasers by the line... 30-40s turned into 1m47s to make up on Ryder over tomorrow's time trial... its still possible if he's flying and Ryder pulls a Menchov.  JRod with a 2min cushion to Scarponi to defend the final podium spot.

to be honest i strongly strongly want de Gendt to finish what he started today on tomorrow's TT... it would make the Mortirolo attack, and Stelvio stage win, even more symbolic/epic/historic... if it became the 'winning' move, rather than just a footnote in Hesjedals' first GT. We've been waiting for a rider to 'seize the day' all week.. .i never imagined it would've been de Gendt though!!!
gerry12ie

While I would be overjoyed with a Belgian winner (the first in thirty bloody six years!!) you would have to feel for Hesjedal were he to lose it.  He struck me a couple of years ago as an eventual GC rider in an Evans type mode (same MTB route) but he has been a lot more enterprising at this stage of his career than Evans was.  I thought he had the rabbit headlight look about him yesterday and if he brings that uncertainty out today well De Gendt might have him for the time.  Rodriguez has been much more consistent this year so its fair to suggest his TT will have improved accordingly but I just can't see him holding Hesjedal to 30 seconds.  Can he hold TDG to 2.18?
Have to agree too that Kelly has been outstanding this year.  There is actually now a bit of chemistry between him and Harmon who has improved because of it.  

Anyway enough of the niceness - COME ON THOMAS DE GENDT!!!
Beasley

Good news for J-Rod.

The ITT course hass been shortened to 28.2km due to road conditions.
kathy

Shortened course didn't help Cav much though!
Bartali

kathy wrote:
Shortened course didn't help Cav much though!
Does that mean he misses out on the points Jersey?
Severo

Here we go!
Severo

TDG 5th fastest at the first check point...
Severo

Hesjedal! Matching De Gendt's times, 44s ahead of Rodriguez - no bad for him and should keep him in 2nd I think.
Bartali

Disappointed but Hesjedal has ridden well - Chapeau.  Good ITT by J-Rod too.
gerry12ie

Brilliant by J-Rod but a well-deserved win by Hesjedal.  What a marker for the future by de Gendt although he is going to find it much harder to get away with the next time.  Not a vintage edition but dull riding was the main culprit, the riders that finished 1-2-3 showed a bit of enterprise and were rewarded.  

And that's exactly the way it should be.
HuwB

The end was inevitable.
By the time Hesjedal started to fade, the TT was over.
He lost 10 seconds to TdG in that final section.
Had the distance been a more credible 45kms......
Purito excelled himself.

Interestingly, I picked Pinotti ftw in a game where you had to pick
all the stage winners in one go.
Here, I go and fp "Sausage". Embarassed
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
Brilliant by J-Rod but a well-deserved win by Hesjedal.  What a marker for the future by de Gendt although he is going to find it much harder to get away with the next time.  Not a vintage edition but dull riding was the main culprit, the riders that finished 1-2-3 showed a bit of enterprise and were rewarded.  

And that's exactly the way it should be.


I have missed chunks of this Giro, but what enterprise has Hesjedal shown?  A little dig on Saturday after Lampre and Leakygas had dragged him within a km or so of the top?  Looked to me that he has basically rode the same race Basso rode but ultimately had much better legs.

Now for my money J-Rod rode a super race.  Little attacks from beginning to end and a good ITT too.  He reminded me of DDL in the centenary Giro - in a good way!
gerry12ie

Well Hesjedal out-kicked Pozzo and Basso for 5th on stage 7 to take the lead, lost it on stage 10, attacked on stage 14 to take 26 seconds and the race lead, lost it again on the following stage and then clawed back enough seconds on the following days to put himself in the driving seat for the TT.  To me, for a guy who had no GT pedigree (unlike, for instance, Basso, Scarponi and Cunego) that is intelligent and enterprising riding.  He wore the leader's jersey on three separate occasions, Rodriguez wore it twice - they made the race and deserved the spoils.

Like I said, not a vintage edition, but sometimes a race is only as one-dimensional as the riders racing it.  Had Nibali rode it he probably would have won comfortably.
Bartali

Fair enough Gerry.  Like I said, I missed chunks of it.
HuwB

Bartali wrote:
Fair enough Gerry.  Like I said, I missed chunks of it.


Well you did.....................and you didn't. Wink
Boogerd_Fan

I agree with Gerrie about Nibs... if he's watched this Giro, someone will need to wake him up... but afterwards Leaky will probably regret sending their current best GT rider to the Tour instead of letting him do the Giro.

I can't believe an Italian would prefer to do the Tour over the Giro (especially as he's due a win!) I suppose, the thinking is, that without Bertie, both Basso & Nibs have a crack at the cherry... Basso in Italy, Nibs in France.

with 2013, and Bertie wanting to do a 'Giro 2011" on the Tour de France, normal service will resume, and we'll see Nibs tackling the Giro/Vuelta again.

Nibs would've been able to climb tempo like these guys. But he'd also have been able to do something similar to Hesjedal in the prologue & final TT.
MS

Boogerd_Fan wrote:
I agree with Gerrie about Nibs... if he's watched this Giro, someone will need to wake him up... but afterwards Leaky will probably regret sending their current best GT rider to the Tour instead of letting him do the Giro.

I can't believe an Italian would prefer to do the Tour over the Giro (especially as he's due a win!) I suppose, the thinking is, that without Bertie, both Basso & Nibs have a crack at the cherry... Basso in Italy, Nibs in France.

with 2013, and Bertie wanting to do a 'Giro 2011" on the Tour de France, normal service will resume, and we'll see Nibs tackling the Giro/Vuelta again.

Nibs would've been able to climb tempo like these guys. But he'd also have been able to do something similar to Hesjedal in the prologue & final TT.


I don't know that it's a poor decision by Liquigas. No Contador opens it up completely and I don't rate Nibali any lower than the likes of Evans, Schleck, Wiggins or Menchov. Sending Basso to the Giro and reserving Nibali for the Tour gave them a shot at both, rather than one.
Boogerd_Fan

well.. time will tell if it was wise or not. Smile
SlowRower

Bartali wrote:
I have missed chunks of this Giro, but what enterprise has Hesjedal shown?


Isn't winning your first GT when completely unfancied at the outset enough?

Seems a bit harsh to me. He was enterprising enough to win, which no-one else managed. J-Rod may have ridden a good race with lots of small attacks, but ultimately, he didn't win, which to me, somewhat (ie considerably) devalues the intangible value associated with how he rode the race.
Bartali

I guess it all comes down to how you define enterprising which IMO it is more about being bold daring or adventurous rather than the ability to win.  As to whether he was unfancied at the outset - well a rider with two top 10 TdF finishes to his credit should not be under-rated.

J-Rod rode with panache - which is a comodity sadly lacking in today's peloton.  Perhaps RH did too - like I say, I might have missed it.
SlowRower

My view is somewhat coloured by having spent so long rowing. It's a dull sport to watch by and large and the result is everything. No-one cares if someone rows with panache, though the occasional "fly and die" is always good entertainment value.

It is a strange concept to me that someone can achieve one of the hardest things in sport - winning a GT - and it's still not enough.

I'm not defending guys who rode defensively to secure a top 5 position, though, when with a bit of adventure they might have finished higher. If memory serves, the only pro I've ever really criticised on this forum is Junior Schleck for giving up with gas in the tank on the Tourmalet stage in 2010. Ironic now that he won that edition!

I wouldn't dispute that some panache would make current races more exciting, but the overwhelming evidence is that panache generally leads to a sub-optimal outcome and come contract renewal time, panache counts for very little. So the lack of panache is not surprising.
HuwB

I'm not sure I agree that Puritio rode with panache, rather to his strength.
Attacking from 1000 metres, after safely negotiating the Giro's huge climbs is a talent that other riders don't possess, but hardly makes for the most stimulating of viewing, except in the instant.
Hesejdal attacked less frequently, with slightly less of a kick, but from slightly further out.

To me, the one piece of real Giro panache came from Thomas de Gendt, on stage 20.
Boogerd_Fan

Speaking of panache, I thought that Rabottini rode rather well to get the KoM jersey... i mean, it's clear he's not the greatest climber out there, but he was in enough breaks and attacked the course to grab enough points (not that there were many other people looking for that jersey anyway).

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