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Boogerd_Fan

First Division Races in 2015

Just wondered how would everyone build the 120 day calendar?
HuwB

Maybe folks haven't seen what you are talking about.
Pretty well covered here, since we only have limited info:

http://inrng.com/2013/10/ucis-2020-vision/

Quote:
As you can see from the slide above the big idea is a calendar is capped at 120 days of racing, compared to a total of 153 days of racing for the World Tour in 2014


More's the point, there one massive calendar underneath the WT, that's only got 50 days allocated to it. Leaves a heck of a lot of good races with nobody to race them.

I do think the no overlap of big races is an obvious, necessary and long overdue change.
Will think upon it.
Boogerd_Fan

The Q is indeed derived from the assumption that half of the calendar would consist of the Grand Tours. How do they propose they fill out the remaining days?

I expect 15ish 1 day races including the 5 monuments… that would leave 40 days to split between some more famous WT 1-week stage races like Paris Nice, Criterium Intl, Romandie, Switzerland, Dauphine as well as having still a day or two left for some of the more recent Tours that have started since UCI globalization – Tour Down Under, California, BENELUX, Poland?

I assume the 2nd division is ranked by just 50 days competition because that is how many days they will be invited (as wildcards) to 1st division events? Surely they would have their own separate ranking based on full racing days on the level below the 1st Division on 1/2.HC and lower races.

"Below this will be a third division with all the other teams and all the other races, a giant warehouse for teams and races that won’t fit in the sport’s shop window for 2020."

That's quite ominous - makes the long-term strategy to sink some of the lesser races, so what is left is the First Division by 2020. Probably quite realistic - as without an audience those races will struggle. But then if they are looking to replicate F1 model e.g. - it's worth noting behind F1 is a bunch of lower classes like F3 where drivers can progress through the ranks and show themselves. Where would neo-pro's learn the ropes or make a breakthrough if the only events are the major races? Will there be a similar U23 setup?
HuwB

See my edit above. Must include the GTs, since i make it that there are only about 145 days in this year's calendar.
25 days to cut from that is possible, if they introduce this no overlap.
Can't say I much like the idea of races such as Paris-Nice starting on a Tuesday, especially if races keep their prologues.

Cutting the one week races to 5 days saves a dozen or so days, so either
most one day races get the chop or else I see the Vuelta having to drop to 2 weeks.
I think maybe the only solution is to drop a race such as the ENECO Tour altogether.

As I say, it's what happens underneath that concerns me. A lot of historical races struggling for a peloton.

Looks at the Emilia on Saturday. Huge race, live tv coverage and down to just 14 teams, of which only Saxo and Astana are the only WT teams from outside Italy.
Meanwhile, they are all racing in Bei bloody jing.
Boogerd_Fan

I would be disappointed if Beijing made it to the First Division calendar. However i guess UCI will follow the money.
berck

It appears the effort is aimed at reducing team sizes. Is this an attempt to save the teams money by carrying less riders?
HuwB

berck wrote:
It appears the effort is aimed at reducing team sizes. Is this an attempt to save the teams money by carrying less riders?


This is certainly a stated aim.
It's OK if the idea being that by cutting costs, sponsors will have to invest less to join the sport, thus promoting more security for top end teams.
From a rider perspective things don't look so rosy, with contracts, even for next season in such short supply.
With fewer riders at the pointy end, the hope must be for an increase in Conti teams, which would secure entry to races in the under-calendars.
With less riders, WT teams will be stretched to send squads, even to HC level races.

Bit of a precarious balancing act, imo.

Maybe it'll be like industry, with enforced redundancy when riders reach a certain age, say..............42? Laughing  Wink
Biosphere

Haven't had time to read the background to the proposals properly yet, but have been aware of them and the general thrust. Riders finding it harder to get contracts, less races to get contract renewing points in and so on. Imagine if there was an underhand method of getting better results and the sport had historically been steeped in it . . .

Taking a step back from that, it seems counter intuitive that you grow a sport by there being less of it? Are ASO going play ball with 20+ less days of racing to package and sell? If races that had spanned two weekends and inevitably brought in their biggest audiences at those weekends, what will TV schedulers think about races that start on a Tuesday.
berck

Both of you make good sense.

Cycling retirement age of 42? Wink

And, yes, it would appear that you're not growing the sport by having less of it.
Bartali

Well I've come up with the following which I think looks good and leaves a little bit of room for one or two others ...

Giro d'Italia
Tour de France
Vuelta a España
Milan – San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Paris–Roubaix
Liège–Bastogne–Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Gent–Wevelgem
La Flèche Wallonne
Amstel Gold Race
Tre Valli Varesine
Giro dell'Emilia
Milano–Torino
Gran Piemonte
Strade Bianche
Giro del Lazio
Tirreno–Adriatico
Giro del Trentino
Settimana internazionale di Coppi e Bartali
Boogerd_Fan

i do hope there's a bunch of italian businesses waiting to sponsor the local Bartali WT then Very Happy

Looks good though Smile

Would the Strade Bianchi be included in the 6 weeks of classics?
Probably the 6 Sunday races would be:
Milan – San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Paris–Roubaix
Liège–Bastogne–Liège
Gent–Wevelgem
Amstel Gold Race

with
La Flèche Wallonne
Strade Bianchi
Het Nieuwsblad
as potential week races before/after?
Biosphere

Bartali wrote:
Well I've come up with the following which I think looks good and leaves a little bit of room for one or two others ...

Giro d'Italia
Tour de France
Vuelta a España
Milan – San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Paris–Roubaix
Liège–Bastogne–Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Gent–Wevelgem
La Flèche Wallonne
Amstel Gold Race
Tre Valli Varesine
Giro dell'Emilia
Milano–Torino
Gran Piemonte
Strade Bianche
Giro del Lazio
Tirreno–Adriatico
Giro del Trentino
Settimana internazionale di Coppi e Bartali


I'm sure you could find a free more Italian races if you looked a bit harder Wink
HuwB

Biosphere wrote:

Taking a step back from that, it seems counter intuitive that you grow a sport by there being less of it? Are ASO going play ball with 20+ less days of racing to package and sell? If races that had spanned two weekends and inevitably brought in their biggest audiences at those weekends, what will TV schedulers think about races that start on a Tuesday.


Indeed.
Why else is the normal GT rest day normally a Monday, or else a Tuesday?
Losing a weekend's exposure will not be well received.

Oh and:
Trofeo Laigueglia to open Bartali's calendar. Wink
mr shifter

Biosphere wrote:

I'm sure you could find a free more Italian races if you looked a bit harder Wink
HuwB wrote:
Oh and:
Trofeo Laigueglia to open Bartali's calendar.
It has to be.
The first thing I thought after Bio's post
Nolte

part of my concern is the 16 team top division and 8 team second division.
this makes the teams outside of the 24 above unbackable basically as they would most likely miss out on the top races while in the grand tours this year, 28 teams took part so 4 of these teams would be outside of the first 2 divisions and might not be eligible for the tour de france, giro or vuelta.

when you take into account the other races that make up the current world tour calendar, 8 other pro continental teams rode worldtour races, what happens to these?

i also wonder if the impulse for these is that by introducing promotion and relegation that such a system encourages continuity in teams rather than teams folding at the end of the season entirely so for example if euskaltel had been with a license for the top division, that would be valuable and thus a new sponsor would like to get the license for the first division.

what will happen to new teams in this set up?
Boogerd_Fan

I assume it will do away with the stupid licenses system, as the promotion / relegation would mean that no one WT/Div1 team would be safe and there would be no point in rewarding teams with a yearly license.... If a team has a bad year and got zero results or Saxo's 2012 model without Bertie's ranking points.. if they were bottom of the pile they'd get relegated and replaced by the best Div 2 team.

Didn't this used to happen in the 90's version of the rankings/top tier?

In which case i'd say new teams would happen from 2 reasons:
- main sponsor of a top team backs out to be replaced by new flagship sponsor but infrastructure remains <Banesto->Caisse>
- brand new sponsor comes along and goes through the tiers to expand to WT size through results - what could also mean picking up a number of riders from the relegated teams along the way<IAM/Europcar>
mr shifter

Just leave the Foooking European schedule the way it has always been in the 50 years I have known it.
Let the other Continents have their own racing and any team can accept invite's as they need.
I'm fed up with this compulsory World Tour Shyte but if a team wants to go globe trotting then so be it.
If a race is not good enough to attract a quality field then let it suffer.

Here I go again. ie Deutsche Telekom.
Where is the Tour of Germany these days.  Question
berck

It appears that Gilbert is infavor of calendar changes, not sure if it's exactly as outlined here, but he thinks they are doing too much as it is...
Gilbert appeals to Cookson for easing in number and difficulty of races
gerry12ie

Inrng have a leak of the proposed calendars for 2015 and from 2017 onwards.  Some big changes on the cards it would appear - Beijing of course upgraded, Eneco and Poland demoted, P-N along with TDS, T-A and Dauphine get shortened.  

Imagine - all those clean cyclists and no races left them for to race in Wink

http://inrng.com/2013/10/pro-cycling-calendar-uci-reform/
Boogerd_Fan

so season will start in February.. and yet the TDU is still there penciled in for January as part of the BLUE colored WT events.

similar contradiction at the end of the year, with Paris Tours overlapping Beijing, despite them having the whole week between Lombardia and Paris-Tours to host the Chinese race. Of course, the latter needs to be over the weekend to maximize audience.

why it's not
Oct wk 1 - Lombardia
Oct wk 2 - Paris Tour
Oct wk 3 - Beijing 5 days incl. Sat/Sun.
gerry12ie

Division 1 & 2 teams reduced to 22 riders from 30 and Conti teams slashed from 16 to half that.  Less riders>less races can only mean less doping right?

Right?

Quote:

Main stakeholders identified

   ASO, Tour de France organisers.
   RCS, Giro d'Italia organisers.
   Flanders Classics, Ronde van Vlaanderen organisers.
   Tour de Romandie organisers.
   The Grand Prix de Québec and Montréal organisers.
   GCP, the UCI's own private cycling promotions company, responsible for the Tour of Beijing.
   AIGCP, the professional cycling team peak body.
   CPA, the rider union.
   The UCI Athletes commission.

Team Changes

   Division one, division two and professional continental teams to consist of 22 riders.
   Continental teams to consist of just eight to ten riders.
   Nine riders per team at each Grand Tour, seven riders per team at every other race.
   Previously outlined 120 days of racing for division one teams to be obligatory.
   Previously outlined 50 days of racing for division two teams to be obligatory.

Miscellaneous points of interest

   The current system of wildcards for Professional Continental teams to race division one events, such as Grand Tours, to remain.
   A more transparent system of promotion and relegation divisions to be implemented.
   The new calendar requires races between February to October with the oddity that The Tour Down Under is listed as a division one event for 2020, but specified as remaining in January.
   Race organisers face an increased UCI tax in order to be on the calendar, as well as increased start money to teams.
   No American or British races on the calendar.

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