| Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling |
| headwind |
DiLuca doped on CERA, 2009 Girohttp://www.cyclingnews.com/news/di-luca-positive-for-cera-in-girogreat news about Killer 
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
I'm quite surprised, this seems to be the first positive result from the Giro, I thought there might have been more coming out during Le Tour! | ||||||
| Nolte |
at least there's been no positive tests in the tour so far 
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| The Lemondheads |
They've all stopped doping, hurrah! 
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| chardon |
The Bastard!  I knew Basso was the better rider!
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| mayofan |
err...maybe so...but i fear youre forgetting something important.. |
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| ullrichfan |
So what was Menchov on? He cruised alongside Di Luca at the Giro, yet can't match Rinaldo Nocentini at the Tour??? | ||||||
| fede40 |
I'll take you don't buy his riding clean statement and online training updates (which btw I admit I never bothered checking...) |
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| mayofan |
fede:
Im not sure, I think his giro performance was credible, especially when compared with his 06 performance. But you kind of lose the right to be held up as a standard when you deal with someone like fuentes, even if you then stop doping. As for training records, well his profile was said to be exemplary pre OP. Bernard Kohls was perfect etc etc.. Basically who the hell knows whether basso or di luca is a better rider, as well never now see them both race clean. ps. I really like basso. |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Are we expecting too much from Menchov? There aren't many guys who can win the Giro and the Tour in the same year. Maybe he just hasn't got the legs after the Giro | ||||||
| Bartali |
Too much partying!!! | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Maybe he should get in touch with Boonen - apparently, he knows how to party 
Mind you, if you'd just won the Giro, wouldn't you be partying? |
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| kathy |
He never struck me as being a party animal! |
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| Slapshot 3 |
Menchov is riding clean.....because he's being targetted with the Humanplasma thing and that's bolloxed him, he's been out of it since the ITT in Monaco
Of course that and Nolte FP'd him for GC |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
Kiss of death then! 
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| kathy |
Nolte has taken over from Huw as this year's KOD king. | ||||||
| Slapshot 3 |
Damn right...the KOD King is causing headaches |
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| Nolte |
i have my fingers crossed that i'll break my tour duck in the next few days
leakygas has been my best with 4th in the team time trial so far. i've a feeling i had another 4th |
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| Bartali |
Kathy - didn't your mother ever tell you that its the quiet ones you have to watch out for .... |
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| Nolte |
alot of people have said that about me |
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| Biosphere |
So what's all this about the police seizing the samples? I've not picked up on this til now. Having been aware of McQuaids quotes on not retesting I still find them incredible 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/u...8-giro-samples-re-tested-for-cera |
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| Bartali |
There's a rumour going around that DDL's B samples are negative? I've heard it from a number of sources. | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
From cyclingnews:
"Two of Di Luca's Giro samples were declared to be positive for CERA last week. The third test concerned was taken on May 31st, the day of the final time trial, and was analysed in the Chatenay Malabry laboratory in Paris. According to La Gazzetta dello Sport, the lab has not confirmed the third result as an analytical positive. It has, however, finished its analyses of the B samples and have send them to Vienna and Montreal for confirmation. The result of those is expected to be released on Friday or Saturday." Interesting if there are reports stating that B sample is negative. From what I read in the "press" Di Luca seems to be totally denying using any banned substance. The mystery continues...... |
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| kathy |
Oh dear! Chatenay Malabry again - the lab the UCI use when they want a positive result, whatever any other lab says. Sounds like the Iban Mayo case all over again. | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
+1 kathy. As well as several other cases....
I think that's why DDL is denying it as he knows the score with regards to which lab is used for testing. Has there ever been any negative tests from that lab - except for pregnacies, although I believe someone did test positive for that.......... |
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| SlowRower |
I still think that announcing the A-test result before the B-test has been conducted is a recipe for disaster.
Why don't they have a rule that says if an A-test is positive, the rider can complete a race they are involved in and then have 10 days to attend the testing of their B-sample? If the rider complies then nothing is reported until both samples are tested positive. (i.e. the A-test positive would never be officially reported if the B-test is negative.) If the rider can't get their a*se in gear to attend within 10 days then the A-test positive can be officially reported. |
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| kathy |
SR, the trouble with that is that the A test results are usually 'leaked' from someone at the lab - how do you stop that? | ||||||
| mazda |
Aren't you two jumping the gun here ? Of the tests done at the CM lab, the third test hasn't had the result reported, and the 'B' samples are rumoured to be negative. It doesn't even say where the two, positive tests were analysed. |
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| SlowRower |
Presumably there are very few people at the lab who ever come into possession of the names associated with the sample. i.e. the people who can do the leaking at the lab must be limited to a very small number of people. The way to catch a "leaker" at this stage is for the Head of the lab (assuming this isn't the source of the leaks!) to give each person who knows the names periodic false information, i.e. something that would be headline grabbing, without falsely implicating a rider. If each potential "leaker" was given different info, then the identity would then be worked out from which false story hit the front pages. e.g. if there were two potential leakers, one might be slipped info that 5 of the top 10 in the Giro have tested positive, whilst the other info that 5 of the top 10 in the TDF had tested positive. No riders would be directly implicated, but there would be no ambiguity over who had leaked the info. A public flogging would then focus the minds on confidentiality! I think this is how Civil Service "moles" are flushed out. It is a tricky issue though, if people are wilfully breaching test protocol in exchange for a back-hander. |
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| kathy |
SR, the reported positive A samples for the Killer came from Chatenay Malabry. The reported negative B samples came from a lab in Barcelona. I don't understand what you're getting at. | ||||||
| thunderthighs |
loser.... oh well | ||||||
| The Lemondheads |
Test results are leaked because it's the only way to stop +'s being arbitrarily covered up to suit the needs of the UCI, race organisers or whoever. The lab workers are the only properly neutral party in the process, if they make a little money from the leaks then good luck to them. |
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| SlowRower |
Sorry - not clear... I was thinking of the situation at a particular lab, e.g. how do you find out who is leaking the results from Chat Mal? (It was nothing to do with finding out why one lab has different results to another.) The different version of dodgy info is given to people at Chat Mal, and then depending on which version of dodgy info hits the news stands, you know who at Chat Mal is the leaker. Of course, this assumes that the big cheeses at Chat Mal are interested in finding out or doing anything about it. |
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| SlowRower |
Except that as soon as anyone matches a name to a test result, neutrality is potentially compromised. On balance though, this seems like less of a risk to "justice" than the UCI etc. suppressing results they don't like! |
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| The Lemondheads |
That compromise due to known identity happens at every stage in the process. But the lab people have by far the least interest in the results and how they affect the world of cycling. My guess would be that many lab tech's became frustrated because they knew that positives were being hushed so started to go public early. |
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| SlowRower |
Do the techs know who the samples belong to? I thought the tested a batch of anonymous, coded samples and reported the results up the "food chain", to avoid targeted "spiking" of samples. Isn't this one of the arguments to support Armstrong's positive EPO tests on the 1999 samples? i.e. no-one in a position to spike his samples knew they were his? If so, it would only be those up the food chain who can match the rider IDs to the sample codes who could leak the results on a "named" basis. I don't know this - it's just deduction from sparse "facts" (which might prove to be not facts!) I can definitely see how anyone working in a lab either testing or in management could get frustrated at their results being suppressed. Scientists are usually very proud of their work. |
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| Boogerd_Fan |
it works both ways though, with either rumour..
the scientist who knows who he is testing, could be moved to spike the results through hate, money, bribery, vengeance etc. the authority (up the food chain) deciding who to ban, based on the anonymous positive, has free reign to target or suppress riders as the situation suits. either way, professional cycling suffers |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
Ah, cute Italian climber gets busted (finally) and it's all the fault of the corrupt labs... could it be that *drum-roll* CM happen to be good at their jobs. Of course not because that would mean that we would have to accept that our favourites are cheating fuck pigs.
I love the accusation of leaks as well. Just to remind you... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/di-luca-positive-for-cera-in-giro
So no one leaked it - unless you count a UCI press release as a leak... Di Luca is fucked because he isn't Spanish. Shame that CONI are anti-doping. I am sure the Spanish would have found a way to find him 'innocent'. |
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| Mysterion |
The same rumour about the B sample being negative went around for Rebellin also and that turned out to be false. If DiLuca did have positives on multiple stages it would be very unlikely to have all the B samples come back negative but we will see.
Remember that the new WADA regulations require EPO test results to be double checked by another lab. In the Mayo case this caused a lot of confusion initially because it was reported that the sample was sent to Australia to be tested when it was only the results that got sent to Australia. The Chatenay Malabry lab is probably he best in the world for EPO testing. If I were innocent I would want my samples going there. |
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| Mrs John Murphy |
The point that cycling fans have yet to cotton on to and where they are being used by the cheats is in the deliberate strategy by the riders and others within the sport to attack the testers and to erode the confidence in the testers.
All Di Luca and Mayo are doing is following the Landis strategy. If you throw around enough random charges then some people are going to be gullible enough to believe them - especially if they are riders fans like. But then I suppose there are some people who don't care about doping as long as it is 'exciting'.
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| Bartali |
Has DDL thrown around any charges? He says he's clean but I've not heard him attack the labs or the testers? | ||||||
| MAILLOT JAUNE |
From cyclingnews: Di Luca has continued to train and maintains his innocence. "Even if the results of the counter-analysis are positive, I will continue with my battle as regards the methods used. I don't know if you'd class that as an attack on testers or lab..... |
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| fede40 |
Wien Lab confirmed positive test | ||||||
| Bartali |
Oh well ... he'll get what he deserves I guess. | ||||||
| kathy |
Yes, it's on l'Equipe this morning. The 'B' samples, tested at CM, have been confirmed as positive by the lab in Vienna. A few days ago he was still protesting his innocence and saying things like, 'Would I be stupid enough to do that when I knew that CERA was detectable?' I think he's been sailing pretty close to the wind for years, and the authorities have decreed, 'Enough is enough!'. He also said he would retire if the 'B' samples came up positive. | ||||||
| Bartali |
Well there you go ... he's pulling a Landis. Disappointing - perhaps not unexpected - behavior!
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| 70kmph |
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| MAILLOT JAUNE |
From cyclingnews:
LPR Brakes fires Di Luca over doping charges. Bart, that was exactly the impression I got, that he was doing a Landis, when I read that DDL was going to continue his battle against the methods used! |
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