SlowRower
|
Dame Kelly Holmes rant threadOK - Let's leave Huw's thread about Becky alone and carry on ranting about Dame Kelly here!
|
kathy
|
Seeing as Kelly Holmes is not a cyclist, I suggest you move it to the coffee lounge.
|
SlowRower
|
As the main thrust of the Kelly Holmes discussion was to underplay the significance of her achievements and to accuse her of doping, I'd say a bespoke Holmes thread fits in pretty well here!
But I take your point, so I'll shut up. 
|
mr shifter
|
Maria de Lurdes Mutola the 800 metre World Champion 2003
Quote from Wiki
It is widely felt that Mutola ran tactically during the 2003 race by setting a slow pace in order to aid her Training Partner Kelly Holmes.
As a result of such a strategy Holmes was able to take Silver.
|
cardinal guzman
|
I know nothing about Holmes, but always thought her olympic medals were a gift from Mutola - just a feeling I had at the time.
|
SlowRower
|
I'm not sure what your point is, Mr S. Holmes' friendship / training with Mutola is well known.
Presumably the logic is that Mutola is a muscular foreigner who runs quickly and therefore must be doping. Holmes starts training with her, so therefore must also be doping.
This might be true, but if it is, whoever bought the drugs should ask for their money back as they didn't make Holmes run any faster.
On the other thread, I wasn't sure whether you were likening Holmes or Diane Modahl to Armstrong. Surely this is a bit extreme. After all, what would that make Marion Jones?
|
SlowRower
|
| cardinal guzman wrote: | | I know nothing about Holmes, but always thought her olympic medals were a gift from Mutola - just a feeling I had at the time. |
I'd be interested in your explanation as to how Mutola gifted Holmes the 1500m in Athens, when it was an event she didn't contest internationally!
She might have gifted her the 800m, although from what I've read, they became less and less friendly as Holmes got faster and faster in training. The other 7 finalists might have fancied their chances as well.
|
cardinal guzman
|
| SlowRower wrote: | | cardinal guzman wrote: | | I know nothing about Holmes, but always thought her olympic medals were a gift from Mutola - just a feeling I had at the time. |
I'd be interested in your explanation as to how Mutola gifted Holmes the 1500m in Athens, when it was an event she didn't contest internationally!
She might have gifted her the 800m, although from what I've read, they became less and less friendly as Holmes got faster and faster in training. The other 7 finalists might have fancied their chances as well. |
Sorry - make that medal not medals. I was trusting to a dim disinterested memory there. Bet I'm right about the 800 though.
|
SlowRower
|
| cardinal guzman wrote: | | Bet I'm right about the 800 though. |
I wouldn't bet my house on it, but many stranger things have happened.
If there was a plan, it nearly all went pear-shaped, as Mutola finished out of the medals and 2nd and 3rd were finishing so fast that if the race had been 801 metres, Holmes would have finished 3rd.
|
mr shifter
|
| SlowRower wrote: | I'm not sure what your point is, Mr S. Holmes' friendship / training with Mutola is well known.
Presumably the logic is that Mutola is a muscular foreigner who runs quickly and therefore must be doping. Holmes starts training with her, so therefore must also be doping.
This might be true, but if it is, whoever bought the drugs should ask for their money back as they didn't make Holmes run any faster.
|
You keep printing words that I never said and I can understand the Frustration of MJM with you.
The point that I tried to give an analogy in the cycling world of the respect that I have for her.
By the way Holmes is two and half years older than Mutola and you say the older one was improving more.
Holmes was 34 when winning the Olympics and Mutola ran with a Hamstring Injury. !!
friendship/training seems to be that of a follower (cycling analogy is wheelsucker) and they were both coached by Margo Jennings a coach at Springfield High School in Oregon where Mutola was sent in 1991 to learn English and her Schooling.
I still have one question about my first post (now edited) and my memory, was if Diane Modahl was ever in the Army. ????
|
Superbagneres
|
I apologise if I'm going to get shot down in flames for asking the question, and I only ask it to understand the nature of the Holmes/Mutola friendship and rivalry, but were they lovers at one stage? I have read a couple of things where that seems to be the subtext but I've never seen it stated as such.
|
SlowRower
|
| mr shifter wrote: | | You keep printing words that I never said and I can understand the Frustration of MJM with you. |
MJM's real frustration is that I was right and she was wrong, but anyway...
If you dispute my interpretation of your logic as to why Holmes is dodgy then please provide your own explanation. So far, it seems to be that she improved from 2003 to 2004 when associating with Mutola for reasons unexplained.
| mr shifter wrote: |
The point that I tried to give an analogy in the cycling world of the respect that I have for her. |
I was assuming that by comparing her to Armstrong you were saying that she was about as low down the respect scale as Armstrong, which is pretty far down (or are you a closet fanboy? ) My point was that however low down the scale Holmes is in your eyes then in athletics, Marion Jones must surely be lower.
Therefore, respecting Holmes as you do Armstrong seems to be giving Ms Jones a bit of a free ride.
| mr shifter wrote: |
By the way Holmes is two and half years older than Mutola and you say the older one was improving more. |
She was improving from her 2003 level, which was around 3 seconds slower than her best over 800m following injury. Even in Athens her time in winning the final was slower than her PB from 9 years previously, and almost exactly the same as she ran in Sydney in 2000. Thus, Holmes' improvement at age 34 was simply that of an injured athlete returning to a level of performance previously achieved in more than one season over a period of years.
|
SlowRower
|
| Superbagneres wrote: | | I apologise if I'm going to get shot down in flames for asking the question, and I only ask it to understand the nature of the Holmes/Mutola friendship and rivalry, but were they lovers at one stage? I have read a couple of things where that seems to be the subtext but I've never seen it stated as such. |
I've read a few things along those lines as well. In my experience of sports events involving partners on opposing sides, the relationship makes the competition so intense that killing the opposition to achieve victory seems entirely reasonable.
|
Bartali
|
| SlowRower wrote: | | This might be true, but if it is, whoever bought the drugs should ask for their money back as they didn't make Holmes run any faster. |
| SlowRower wrote: | | She might have gifted her the 800m, although from what I've read, they became less and less friendly as Holmes got faster and faster in training. The other 7 finalists might have fancied their chances as well. |
So did she get faster or not? Make your mind up!
|
SlowRower
|
It depends... Faster from 2003 to 2004 in both 800 and 1500 as 2003 was disrupted by injury. Slower from peak pre 2004 to 2004 in 800 (by 0.17) seconds. Faster from pre 2004 peak to 2004 in 1500m (by 0.17s) I guess you were just wumming as my explanation above is a statement of the bleeding obvious! One is a comparison of injury influenced performances to injury free. The other a career long study.
|
Bartali
|
Me Wum? 
|
mr shifter
|
| Bartali wrote: | | SlowRower wrote: | | This might be true, but if it is, whoever bought the drugs should ask for their money back as they didn't make Holmes run any faster. |
| SlowRower wrote: | | She might have gifted her the 800m, although from what I've read, they became less and less friendly as Holmes got faster and faster in training. The other 7 finalists might have fancied their chances as well. |
So did she get faster or not? Make your mind up! |
Well I thought it is Hilarious and something like "Mud in yer eye mate"
|
Slapshot 3
|
bump
|
|
|
