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berck

Crank arm spindle

Anybody ever crack the spindle on their crank arm? I just did it today. Fortunately, I had finished all my hill climbing and descents. I couldn't figure out what had happened until I took the bike into the shop. I was pedaling normally and then when I was pushing down on the right pedal, the whole arm felt like it bent into the frame on the down stroke.

At the bike shop, they pulled it apart and saw a massive crack in the spindle right next to the crank arm. They told me that they had never seen this before. They said that it will be covered by the warranty.
thunderthighs

alot of counter fit campagnolo parts on the market , i suspect many others too...
if pro riders o not break anything, how can we break stuff...ciao
berck

Wasn't counter fit parts. Ultegra genuine that came with the bike. Like I said, they claimed they had never seen this before.
berck

I got off the phone with the bike shop. They've been talking with Shimano. Shimano said its a known problem on the 6600 series. The bike shop was wondering why they didn't issue a recall then. No response about that from Shimano.

The good news is that they are replacing it with a Dura Ace crank. Smile
thunderthighs

japanese junk strikes again...oh well..ciao
last km

Id gladly have Durace "junk"... Shocked
SlowRower

Re: Crank arm spindle

berck wrote:
Anybody ever crack the spindle on their crank arm?


Never generated enough power for that, sadly!

I did break one of the rails on my saddle last year, so that the rear left part of the saddle sagged alarmingly. Still not sure how I managed that - if I had a complex about the size of my rear end, I'd have been very worried. Smile
Bartali

Not sure I follow Berck.  Did you crack the crank arm itself or the 'axle'?  I've seen crank arms fall to bits .... but never the axle.
thunderthighs

can i assume that we are useing ..no mismatching of components.. campy bb... with camp ring..



ciao
berck

Bartali wrote:
Not sure I follow Berck.  Did you crack the crank arm itself or the 'axle'?  I've seen crank arms fall to bits .... but never the axle.


Axle. I couldn't think of the right word at the time I wrote it so I said spindle.
berck

Re: Crank arm spindle

SlowRower wrote:

Never generated enough power for that, sadly!

I did break one of the rails on my saddle last year, so that the rear left part of the saddle sagged alarmingly. Still not sure how I managed that - if I had a complex about the size of my rear end, I'd have been very worried. Smile


It does sound cool to think I generated enough power, but sadly, this happened in the flats while normal pedaling.

I too broke a saddle rail a few years ago. It was on a bontragger seat. I've been riding with fizik Aroine seats since, and haven't had a problem
headwind

I had a semi similar but different thing. when packing my bike to fly I need to take the chain rings off because I have an integrated seat post (best thing in the world by the way). So Im taking them off and 4 of the 5 nut ends of the chainring bolts were cracked the length of the nut (sleeve), all the way down the threading.  Id never seen it before. They were torx T30 FSA chainring bolts. fortunately my LBS had a set for me, but Id of never imagined it.

hw
berck

Lucky for you HW. I'll have to take a closer look at mine now when I clean the bike.

I did get my bike back last week. Turns out that I just got an Ultegra replacement and not the DuraAce they promised. I suspect the reason is I'm riding a triple, and I don't believe they make a triple DuraAce since the 9sp days. The shop had to send two cranks back because they were both doubles.

I guess I should probably sift over to a compact one day.
headwind

berck wrote:
Lucky for you HW. I'll have to take a closer look at mine now when I clean the bike.

I did get my bike back last week. Turns out that I just got an Ultegra replacement and not the DuraAce they promised. I suspect the reason is I'm riding a triple, and I don't believe they make a triple DuraAce since the 9sp days. The shop had to send two cranks back because they were both doubles.

I guess I should probably sift over to a compact one day.


By the way...yes. Make the move. Its great except for the super bad climbs (at least for me). For the big hills I put on a 34 small CR and a 27 rear cog.

By big is 52. So the 34/52 with 12-27 gives a lot of options.

hw
bbnaz

So MrB is making a frame for next summer's PBP ride.  I am thinking of surprising him with a full complement of Campy 11 for his bike.

Good idea or bad and why?
headwind

mostly good. but, and its a big but (did I just say that??), I dont like the 11S chain limitation. Wipperman has not yet made a master connex link for 11S, and there is a whole new 200$ chain tool for this chain. Cant be done with a regular tool...and you are SOL on a ride. Plus, you need to deal with the switching between 10S and 11S if you have 10S. Not sure what the hub/lockring issue turns out for a set of wheels. consequently, my 11S chorus gruppo is still in boxes. but it is pretty....

Sad
bbnaz

Thats the whole point, he is building the frame so it has nothing as of yet.  It is beautiful and virgin.

I also can't see him complaining about a new campy tool but don't want him to be SOL on the ride if something goes wrong.

decisions decisions.
berck

I actually prefer the older 9 speed over the 10 speed setup. A couple of reasons. 1) The chains wear out faster on the 10sp. They are thinner than the 9sp chains. 2) The 9sp shifting tends to be a bit more forgiving. It takes a bit more effort to get the 10sp shifting correctly

Having said that, I do like the fact that I have the extra gear in the back, but if given the choice, I'd go back to 9. I know the 11 sp chain is even narrower than the 10 sp chain.

You can pick up a whole SRAM Red setup for about $1300.
bbnaz

berck wrote:


You can pick up a whole SRAM Red setup for about $1300.


Ahh but how would a Campy addict react?
berck

bbnaz wrote:
berck wrote:


You can pick up a whole SRAM Red setup for about $1300.


Ahh but how would a Campy addict react?


Time to go through rehab... Wink
headwind

trust me berck, there is no cure.
Bartali

BB - time for me to wade in on this one ....

Campag 11sp is beautiful ... and a great present for a bike enthuiast.  I take Berck's point re thin chains, but realistically I don't think mere mortals get through any chains that quickly ... and if you are in the Campag 11sp bracket, a chain is only a chain.  Also, I spend a bit of time on the weight weenies site - those guys are very knowledgable about components - and no one is complaing about the 11sp chain being too weak.

Headwind makes a good point re the tool, but I'm sure I have a KMC link (like the wippermann link) on mine?  I'll check tonight.  Also - and HW might correct me on this - I'm not sure why you can't used a regular $5 chain splitting tool if you have problems out on the road.  I've split all sorts of fancy chains over the years from Shimano XTR and Campag 10sp to NJS track chains - and never used anything other than a cheap $5 tool.

Anyway ... Campag 11sp ... its the Cartier jewellery of the bike world!!

Mr B will be a ver lucky man!
berck

Bartali wrote:

Campag 11sp is beautiful ... and a great present for a bike enthuiast.  I take Berck's point re thin chains, but realistically I don't think mere mortals get through any chains that quickly ... and if you are in the Campag 11sp bracket, a chain is only a chain.  Also, I spend a bit of time on the weight weenies site - those guys are very knowledgable about components - and no one is complaing about the 11sp chain being too weak.


How the chains wear out depends a lot on how you ride. The more climbing you do the faster they stretch. My first 10sp chain only lasted 500 miles. I was doing a heck of a lot of climbing on the bike when I first got the bike. Not sure how the 9sp chain would have held up, but this is what I've determined under normal use. A 10 sp chain lasts between 1500 and 2000 miles. The 9sp chain goes to at least 2500. You'll notice the chain wear quicker on the 10sp chain because you start having small shifting issues before the chain actually wears out. The 9sp is more forgiving.

The 10sp is is also more prone to cable stretch issues than 9sp because of the higher tolerances required under 10sp.

Having said all that, I really like the idea of having the extra gear in the back. I really like 1 tooth gear changes available. But, I'm also a bigger guy and need a little more range than most. That also has me putting more stress on my equipment than others.
Bartali

berck wrote:
My first 10sp chain only lasted 500 miles. I was doing a heck of a lot of climbing on the bike when I first got the bike.


Wow!  Might be down to you being a big powerful guy and the way you ride etc, but I'm shocked that you could get through any chain in 500 miles.  Shocked

I've ridden the same 10 speed chain for 3 years and no problems to date. (Don't know how many miles that would be, but quite a lot ... including two Marmotte's and three trips to the Pyrenees.)  

I have to say that their are 10sp chains and 10sp chains! I've no experience of Shimano's offering, but the KMC (silver) chain is better than the Campag chain IMO (What .... sacrilege!)  Then, theres the $400 titanium Wippermann chain which probably wears much quicker than most.

Thinking about titanium .... will the cassette size and material not be a factor.  Some of the Campag cassettes have titanium 'cogs' which presumably will cause less chain wear than steel 'cogs'?

And then there's the weather, rain, grit grime ... how often you clean the chain etc etc...
Anyway - BB - don't let this put you off 11sp Campag, though I hope Mr BB has better luck with his chains than Berck.
headwind

Bartali wrote:
BB - time for me to wade in on this one ....

Campag 11sp is beautiful ... and a great present for a bike enthuiast.  I take Berck's point re thin chains, but realistically I don't think mere mortals get through any chains that quickly ... and if you are in the Campag 11sp bracket, a chain is only a chain.  Also, I spend a bit of time on the weight weenies site - those guys are very knowledgable about components - and no one is complaing about the 11sp chain being too weak.

Headwind makes a good point re the tool, but I'm sure I have a KMC link (like the wippermann link) on mine?  I'll check tonight.  Also - and HW might correct me on this - I'm not sure why you can't used a regular $5 chain splitting tool if you have problems out on the road.  I've split all sorts of fancy chains over the years from Shimano XTR and Campag 10sp to NJS track chains - and never used anything other than a cheap $5 tool.

Anyway ... Campag 11sp ... its the Cartier jewellery of the bike world!!

Mr B will be a ver lucky man!


Bets, let me confimr what Bartali said: Mr B will love getting such a gift. Period. I read a number of articles about removing the 11S chain and was pretty bummed. People have ruined chains by using a regular tool and campy even says so on their chain information page. This is from Lennard Zinn:

Dear Gary,

I don’t know your reason for removing the chain in the first place, but if it’s to clean it, don’t do that anymore. Clean it on the bike. Better yet, wipe it and lube it with ProGold ProLink after every ride. Then you won’t ever have to clean it.

Both 10-speed and 11-speed chains are so narrow and have so little rivet extension beyond the plates that there is no room for error. You don’t want a chain to break when you’re sprinting, and if the assembly pin is not installed perfectly, every time you shift under load when that pin goes past, you’re asking for the derailleur to pry the outer plate off of that pin.

Campagnolo came up with the connector pin for 11-speed chains that is split on the end in order to create a more robust connection than the connector pin for its 10-speed chains provided, which was only to be assembled at a “virgin” hole at the end of the chain. If you removed a Campy 10-speed chain, you could only reassemble it safely if you used a short segment of chain with virgin holes on both ends and two assembly pins, or you could instead insert a Wippermann, KMC, or SRAM 10-speed master link.

The 11-speed connector pin, however, is “a true rivet;” it is split on the end the guide pin slips into, and it gets mushroomed out on the back side by Campy’s new chain tool. That way, if for some reason the customer does have to open the chain, they can do it at any link in the chain, as long as they use a new 11-speed assembly pin and install it with the Campy 11-speed chain tool. That said, Campagnolo’s position is that you should not remove your chain for cleaning and should just clean it on the bike for the same reasons I stated. But if you have to remove the chain for some reason, you can close it with the correct pin and tool, at any link you choose.

Read more: http://velonews.competitor.com/20...-speed-chain_108165#ixzz0n4iIVTs8



Like Bartali says, its not like they are breaking. That said, I remove my chain to clean all the time and like keeping my drive train clean as I can.

Bartali, I have not yet seen a master link for 11S but would love to get one. I have read that while the 10S link is passable, it is wide enough to be a problem rubbing adjacent cogs on the cassette. Wippermann does not yet have one.

The other part of the situation is that my TIME has a 10S drive train and I dont fancy changing cassettes every time I swap wheels. I dont have the $$ to keep a permanent set of 11S hoops laying around...though I am considering it.

But to reiterate: Mr B will absolutely swoon over it, just like Bartali says.

hw
Bartali

What HW says makes sense.

HW ... have you seen this

[url]www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='0339-11[/url]
headwind

had not. thanks bartali. u using it?

Id love a wipperman 11S chain! completely incredible
Bartali

I was confused HW.  I have a KMC link on my 10sp drive chain.  But the 11sp is super record throughout.  That wipperman titanium chain is serious 'bike porn' ... but probably not that practical in the UK weather!

Berck - interestingly, the Campag site suggests changing the 11sp chain every 1800 to 2000 miles (irrespective of wear) which is consistent with your experience.
headwind

Ok. I was hoping Wippermann or KMC would come have come out with an 11S chain to avoid the camp issue. I just like taking my chain off to clean. Ive run a wippermann ss chain on my record drive train since 2004. Its the bomb. Perhaps Im so accustomed to it that I dont even want to think about the campy option. I look at my chain length every year and replace once its too stretched.

man 11S super record...droooooooool
headwind

hows the parlee doing? any changes since its birth?
headwind

what kind of hub arrangement do you need to accept the 11S cassette?

I have a set of old mavic Cosmos that I could use for 11S, but not sure that old Mavics have the whatever-they-did-to-fix-it-for-campy-11S option...suggestions welcomw.
Bartali

Oh HW .... my bike collecting is getting seriously out of control!  I'm curently building yet another Italian 80's fixed wheel - I just love the purity and nostalgia of it all.  Must be a mid-life crisis!!

On the Parlee front ... Parlee number 1 (Z3SL) is pretty much as is.  Lovely bike.  Record, zero gravity, AX and schmolke .... and a choice of lightweight ventoux tubs or campag clinchers.  Then there is the Z4 I bought to carry across all the components from my crashed and trashed litespeed ... only it didn't work out that way because campag rather inconsiderately launched 'super record' mid build.  So I now have the bling-ist 'winter bike' on the planet!!

I'm pretty sure that the campag 11sp cassette just fits straight on to a 10sp hub.  Must do because I switched the Ventoux's over to 11sp simply by changing the cassette over.  So ... bang on a 10sp cassette for the Z3 or an 11sp for the Z4.  I am so lucky!!

I'm sure Wipperman and KMC will produce 11sp soon.  Rumours are that Token have one about to launch so the big chain players must be close!

Talking of chains, the one thing I did do on the Z3 was switch from record to KMC .... and it runs much better.  How much of that is set up and how much is the chain I don't know, but I'm not the only one who's had more success with KMC and/or Wipperman.
headwind

mille grazie bartali.
berck

Bartali wrote:

Berck - interestingly, the Campag site suggests changing the 11sp chain every 1800 to 2000 miles (irrespective of wear) which is consistent with your experience.


I have to admit, when I change out the chain, its usually not stretched bad enough to do so. I do it because I have the shop go through the bike about every 1500 miles. With the 9sp chain, I could wait every other shop visit. With the 10sp chain, I make sure I do it every shop visit.

The shop did tell me that the amount of wear will be dependant on the type of riding being done. The more hill climbing over those miles the more stress on the chain. Of course, the size of the rider will play a factor too.

To me, its good to hear that they suggest that. It tells me that the 11sp is probably as durable as the 10sp.
bbnaz

Thanks everyone for the input.  Nice to not be jarred and to get good discourse.

The PBP course is not too flat and not too much climbing.  More rolling if I remember correctly.

Mr B is looking for a 1000k brevet to complete this year as they have changed the requirements for participation.  One would think that completion of 5 PBPs should qualify you.  Guess not.

Will keep you all updated as to the progress on the C11 (and appropriate tools)
headwind

Keep us posted Bets.

hw
bbnaz

headwind wrote:
Keep us posted Bets.

hw


working the ATOC right now so won't be deciding until I get home.

He has a 1000k brevet the end of June but I don't think the frame will be done by then.  If it is, that would be the perfect time for me to give it to him so he can test it prior to PBP.
berck

Sounds like a great plan Betsy! Smile

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