Boring or disappointing?

Mrs John Murphy · Boring or disappointing?

This years TDF has been for the most part one of the most boring races ever. Devoid of any attacking moves the race has got to stage 13 with Nocentini still in Yellow. Fair play to RN for remaining in yellow but his defence of the MJ has hardly been Voeckler hanging on for grim death.

The 'action' has been limited to a split in the peloton and Dertie taking back 20 seconds on Arcalis.

I think that it has seemed more boring as a race because on paper this looked one of the strongest fields for a long time. A lot of us taking an optimistic view believed that the lack of mountains would compel the climbers into attacking - afterall, only 3 mtfs meant that action had to take place went the train of thought. The climbers we though would be forced to attack elsewhere but so far nothing.

On paper we had a very strong sprinting competition even without McEwen and Steegmans. We wanted to see a good sprinting competition between Frodo, Bennati, Hushovd, Boonen/Davis, Ciolek, Freire and Farrar - but we haven't had it. Clearly Boonen should not be riding, Bennati is clearly unfit and as a result the sprints have been one-sided and boring.

We wanted to see attacking riding from the Schlecks and to see how Dertie would react to the pressure and we haven't had that. This is to my knowledge the first time that Dertie has raced AS. But we are 14 stages in and nothing so far. How much of that is down to the Schlecks and how much is down to Riis I don't know.

The likes of Menchov, Evans and Sastre have been non-factors - poor form and poor team support meant that all three were so far back that the race was over for them by stage 4. CVV has been invisible so far.

I for one am pissed off with hearing from riders about how they are going to attack and then do fuck all when push comes to shove.

We've had dull tedious racing, rider protests and Armstrong rammed down our throats by commentators.

I am at a loss to explain the tactics chosen by Suxo and Cervelo. At this rate they are going to run out of road in which to attack - if they even intend to attack.

If anything this race shows the importance of innovative and attacking riders. I can not for one second believe that someone like DDL would have passed up a chance to attack on a stage like yesterdays.

I'd love to be optimistic about tomorrow's stage but I really can't. I suspect the action will again be limited to the last 500 metres.

Slapshot 3

from another thread...you read my mind (yeah it's an easy thing to do, I know)

Fontfroide

Although you are basically right, you neglected to mention any of the individual stages, the winners, the losers, the racing, the heli shots, the minor tragedies (like Gesink or Levi) the countryside, the spectators etc. In short, you neglected to say anything about the spectacle? Treating the Tour this way is like thinking that the election of Obama is a democratic process that is about actual politics/policies, and then being disappointed when nothing much changes. The disappointment is easily seen in both cases, you and I, and many others, including some journalists and riders and TV commentators can see it anyway. Fignon, for example is bored shitless and even teases J-P Olivier about his churches now. You are basically right. The rest of the spectacle however is worth a bit of notice. When slightly less than active racing (British understatement, there is no iconette for that) one can enjoy the rest.

One last thing. On a forum entitled "just cycling" it seems fair enough to focus just on the cycling, which has not been very good for all the reasons you have mentioned. Although no doubt I could find one or two worth discussing if no one else does. the ASO wanted a big climax at the end, and, in fact, that might be just what we get. Maybe.

MS

Bartali

I'm just a bit fed up with the defense of "its to create a spectacle on Ventoux" because its simply rubbish!

1. You don't need to neutralize the Pyrenees to have a close finish. Christ .. most stage races these days are quite close. Just finish with the Ventoux rather than a ITT. Simples.

2. We can't end up with a climatic Ventoux when all the climbers are three minutes down after the TTT ... more after the final ITT.

FF - you are right, it is a spectacle and we have seen some good rides. But I get that in the Tour of Qatar - albeit with less greenery!

headwind

Let me change up the thread title some:

Boring AND Disappointing

The reduction of the pyrenees to club ride status was outrageous. What could be better for setting up ventoux if there were fireworks in advance? The TTs are a shame and certainly emasculated the mountains. I couldnt agree more. Take all the exciting racing and destroy the field by shattering it with time trials. shameful waste. Im so disappointed and bored by this tour...fortunately Ive not felt compelled to watch much.

as an exchange for excitement...I ended up hiking through this little ravine the other day that was absolutely chuck full of poison ivy. and I was wearing shorts. 4 days later and Im still not showing signs, but damn...Im scared still. I could have it everywhere just about!

hw

CapeRoadie

The Bore de France.

headwind

I think Im signing on to the good doctors "END THE MADNESS" campaign.

Racing was more fun with ramapnt doping. lets let it back in...I mena really...Chicken, Ricco, Landis...that was fun cycling to watch!

headwind

doc any advice on poison ivy? im 4 days out and nothing...but..

CapeRoadie

CapeRoadie

Go Roche!

headwind

thanks. I was in and around it for hours...soon as I got back to the car I used clorox wipes to clean off legs etc. ive never had it before, but, this was a shit-ton of it. got home and did zanfel a couple days later.

still no rash or blisters etc.

cheers bro, hw

Boogerd_Fan

Today was good - the breakaway was sizable enough to see some time gaps and also some politics in the group in the last 20km... nice to watch after the regular "procession" around France for a week.

glamorganmorgan

There have to be stages like today (14).

However the tdf does not appear to have started yet. Stage 15 may be the start, but I am not convinced, not even convinced by the Alpine stages. Stage 17 looks a testing stage, but then GC contenders have to ride a TT the following day. yet another dull day? i hope not, but fear the worst

Jackov

Mysterion

Mrs John Murphy

I tend to think the boringness is made worse because we expect more from these riders. A Vuelta where the field is Menchov, Devolder and Efmkin is never going to set the world on fire and we can look at the field and not have high hopes. But when you look at a field that has Dertie, Sastre, Menchov, Evans, the Schlecks, Liestrong etc you expect more.

If at the start of the race we had known that the sprints were going to be between Frodo, Farrar and Hushovd, we'd have said ok. Not a great field, be interesting to see how close Farrar can get to Frodo and if Frodo can make it over the mountains. As it was when we looked at the field we saw the prospect of Bennati-Frodo-Boonen which if all three are on form is really interesting.

Bad course design certainly plays a part but as we saw with the Giro, if you have bold riders then even an emasculated course can become interesting.

It is a little bit like seeing a big parcel under the xmas try only to open it and find that it is an empty box

Oh and FF - fuck the spectacle. This is a bike race to a 'visti France' tourist video. All of the nice camera shots are meaningless if the action on the road is shit.

The spectacle should be the racing - everything else follows on from that.

Superbagneres

I agree with the point that you have made that it is made worse by the likes of Andy Schleck telling us that they plan to attack on a stage and then not doing it. In fact I have never understood what a rider stands to gain from saying that he will attack somewhere in advance of doing it, unless you really are engaged in a serious bluffing game, which I think is rare.

I am surprised if you did have expectations that the sprints would be more competitive. If Bennati was on top form it might be more interesting, but surely it was obvious he wouldn't be, and in the end I was a bit surprised that he started. And great rider that Boonen is I don't see him as a prolific bunch sprinter anymore, even when his mind is focussed, which it appears not to be. McEwen is past it and Steegmans is all over the place. But I am disappointed that Ciolek has not been stronger.

Mrs John Murphy

Yes, and realistically we should not have expected anything from a Riis DS'd team but we hope, just like we hoped that Bennati would be on form etc.

My point is that our disappointment/boredom is greater because we like to think that if everyone in the race were fit, on form etc then it would be a great race irrespective of the course. As it is the reality is riders off form, unfit, past it and not good enough, this is then brings into sharper focus the shitty tactics and the crappy parcours. Ultimately, no bullshit about 'the spectacle' can cover up how bad this race has been for the last 14 stages.

Geraint

When Contraband moves to another team, we could have interesting racing again. It will be his individual strength against the Blue Train. Maybe Basso might become a factor again too. Columbia will be compromised in their challenge for GC as long as Cav is there.

Bartali

When Bertie moves to a new team there won't be a blue train ...

Kloden will be busted soon, maybe LL too and they don't have any other GT GC riders.

headwind

Remember Lance took a vindictive win against Kloeden in 05 (?)...with LL out, Lance will be alone...

Bartali

Sorry HW, but I don't consider LA as a GC rider anymore.

headwind

i still have that icky internal feeling bartali!

Bartali

Noooooooooo! You'll unwittingly think it into reality Wink

He'll do ok today because its short and not steep an no one has put him under pressure all day. This race needs DDL!

headwind

i know...today is too easy for anything interesting

Jackov

chasm

kathy

Just watched the last 10km of yesterday's stage again. Interesting how Berto had taken out his earpiece for a while. Perhaps he doesn't need a radio with JB blasting in his ear.

Also interesting how Klöden distanced Lance at the end. I do wish Klöden would ride for himself and show us what he's capable of. Yes, I know he's probably a doper, but he's also a great underachiever IMO:

SlowRower

SlowRower

Official verdict on this year's course - BORING. My wife says so, so it's true.

She demand high standards though. After the few bunch sprints to kick off, she would like repeated MTFs until there's only one man left capable of pedalling. Transition days and tempo riding are not her thing.

Mrs John Murphy

Your wife has the brains, the looks, the money and wears the trousers in your relationship. Did she take on as a mercy-case?

Bartali

Sounds like Mrs SR has it about right!

Kloden - I guess he underachieves for Astana or doesn't get to ride at all?

SlowRower

MAILLOT JAUNE

Apparently Sastre thinks it's boring"
"The race has been like it is since the beginning. It still is the same fight – the rest of the riders are out [of contention to win]. It's a boring race, from outside and inside," he said.

Prodded what he means by "boring", Sastre replied: "What is boring? There's no attacks, no tactics, nothing… Just a strong team, one rider – one of the best in the world – will win the race, that's all.

headwind

well, at least he sees the same thing we do.

what sucks is this Bruyneel formulaic answer to racing. Its as interesting as watching paint dry.

SlowRower

Is Sastre expecting everyone else to attack? Unless something is lost in translation, he gives the impression that he's a helpless spectator rather than a particpant who could launch a massive solo raid in the next mountain stage.

headwind

How tempo destroyed the peloton

Bartali

Question is ... take Contador away from Astana and, parcours apart, is it still dull? Bruyneel's GT formula works when you have the best GT man - but take that man away and what are you left with? Astana TdF 2006? Astana Giro 2009?

Bartali

SlowRower

Is there any background on why Sastre joined Cervelo? Was he forced out by the Schlecks?

I wasn't saying Sastre's best tactic would be to attack; just that if he's genuinely bored he could say "Sod the lot of you" and really go for it. It would liven things up, even if it cost him a top 5 finish. It might even win him the race... Smile

headwind

The oarcours is like a giant pile of gel. It has provided virtually no places for fantastic exploits, and has destroyed morale by making huge arrears from time trials. The best TT team has imposed an impenetrable lead, removing many tactical options for other contenders. It was a course designed for Astana and LA (or as we see, Contador)

Mrs John Murphy

SR - he just repeating what we have been saying all along. The ITT and TTT put the likes of Sastre a long way back - the situation for a climber like Sastre is made worse by the design of the parcours which lacks any climbs suitable for him to launch the kind of attack you are demanding.

You can't attack if the parcours doesn't suit your style of riding. You might as well say well why doesn't FC go for it up Ventoux...

If you paid any attention to cycling then you would know that one of the reasons why Sastre left Saxo was due to a row with Riis over the CSC/Saxo squad in the Vuelta last year.

Astana are basically 'anti-cycling' much like Leeds are anti-football. Effective but ugly and boring to watch and rightfully hated by everyone but their apologists. JB even has the Revie shit hair and bribes nailed on.

SlowRower

MJM - You can always attack! You can't always attack with goods odds of success, though, which is doubtless Sastre's problem. He's really complaining that the course doesn't suit him, rather than that it's boring.

I'm not demanding an attack anyway. I'm just saying that if he's bored he should launch one just for the hell of it. He wouldn't be bored and neither would we. Job done.

Mrs John Murphy

No. The race is boring. The race is boring because of the way in which the race has been designed. Design a better course and you would have more exciting racing.

You can wum that Sastre is blaming others for his position but you would as usual be wrong.

The point is that for an attacker like Sastre the effectiveness of his attacks depends upon him being able to put his opponents into the red. Once into the red they are more likely to crack. If Sastre is 5 minutes down then there is no need for his rivals to follow him. Remember your boy Lance's comment that there was no need to follow a rider who was 5 minutes down.

If you don't weight the parcours so far in favour of the TTers then the attacks (even if limited) from the climbers become more effective because the weaker climbers are obliged to follow. It is a boring race because is impossible for the climbers to put the stronger TT into difficulty because the TTers are already so far ahead and not obliged to follow and the strong teams can ride tempo knowing that there is another TT where they will take more minutes out of the climbers.

Now I appreciate that as a lance fanboy this is a wet dream of a race for you, but for those of us who like cycling it is fucking boring.

levi

i would say boring and disappointing but for the odd good ride,otherwise one of the dullest i can remember.

Slapshot 3

The Tour has been boring and there two main reasons for this.

1 Armstrong
2 Parcours

unfortunately I think they are inexorably linked, to get the increased exposure and revenues he brings similar to the giro, the route had to be bland to suit a 38 year old has been.

Astana sitting riding tempo is THE Bruyneel style, we all know that, and he's done it because he has the best GT rider in Berto, doesn't work otherwise, you saw that at the Giro, the riders can't properly buy into the game plan if there's no guaranteed return at the end. Remember, last year CSC/Saxo Bank TRIED to do the same thing for Carlos.

I'm not disappointed by it because I had no real expectations of a brilliant tour. From the minute the parcours was released last year it was always going to be a bit of a drag. Filling the third week with tough stuff doesn't cut it for me personally.

chardon

Carlos Sastre sez:

"The race has been like it is since the beginning. It still is the same fight – the rest of the riders are out [of contention to win]. It's a boring race, from outside and inside," he said.

Prodded what he means by "boring", Sastre replied: "What is boring? There's no attacks, no tactics, nothing… Just a strong team, one rider – one of the best in the world – will win the race, that's all.

More:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sastre-blasts-the-press-for-disrespect

Poor guy. He should have done something not to make it boring...

SlowRower

HuwB

SlowRower

Bartali

SR - sometimes you are an intolerable WUM. You know full well Sastre does not have it in his power to make the race exciting and to suggest that he makes a suicidal attack to relieve his boredom is plain silly. You might as well suggest that he rides up the Ventoux backwards while playing the mouth organ with his bum to relieve his boredom.

Mrs John Murphy

No, the boring easy course means that Astana can ride a nice high tempo making it impossible for anyone to get away and launch a successful attack.

If it had been a tougher course like the Giro then your boy Lance would have been out of it by stage 5 instead of stage 15 and your interest in the race would have finished 11 days ago.

A bit rich of you to call anyone stupid while at the same time claiming that Sastre can just attack and make the race interesting. Perhaps if you took your head out of Lance's arse and watched some racing you might stop saying so many stupid things.

SlowRower

SlowRower

Mrs John Murphy

It's ironic that you love to wum but you can't handle being wummed back. Cuts both ways no?

If you don't want to be accused of being an ignorant Armstrong fanboy then stop making stupid wum statements.

If I'm writing for the News of the World then I guess that must make you Chief Reporter for the Sunday Sport. 'Lance found on the Moon with Elvis' special report by SlowRower

Bartali

Jackov

Sastre could have stayed home and told the world he's not racing because it will be boring inside and out.

MS

Mysterion

Even Armstrong said the course has been boring in a Versus interview a couple of days ago.

Mrs John Murphy

As TDF champion he was sent to the Vuelta with this team and was pretty pissed off at the time - and rightly so.

1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa)
2 Alexandr Kolobnev (Rus)
3 Iñigo Cuesta Lopez De Castro (Spa)
4 Jurgen Van Goolen (Bel)
5 Juan José Haedo (Arg)
6 Karsten Kroon (Ned)
7 Matti Breschel (Den)
8 Michael Blaudzun (Den)
9 Volodymir Gustov (Ukr)

There is some debate about whether or not this team was a punishment from Riis for his decision to join Cervelo or if it was a trigger for him joining Cervelo.

See this story http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/ne...or-lack-of-support-in-vuelta.html

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14968450

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=2648&start=0

mayofan

really really weird interview, sastre is one pissed off guy at the moment. A couple of choice paragraphs

SlowRower

SlowRower

Sastre's comments re this year's race being boring do demonstrate the importance of a rider's state of mind.

He's already publicly got his excuses in and has basically given up. How hard is he going to push in the final TT? Not very, I suspect. (Unless it's all a bluff and he's going to take my advice and surprise everyone with an attack!) It seems a very defeatest attitude, even if it's entirely understandable.

Bartali

MAILLOT JAUNE

As he's the defending champion, I imagine he wouldn't have much choice or would have wanted to miss the Tour.

I wonder how many defending champions, barring injury, disqualification retirement, wars, have not defended their title.

Bartali

A lot in the old days .... not so many these days.

MAILLOT JAUNE

Probably quite correct there bart.

MAILLOT JAUNE

Sastre's changed his mind, Rolling Eyes

:
"This stage was exciting, as was expected, and very fast from the start."

Mysterion

This Tour is going to set a record for the highest percentage of riders finishing. Another testament to how easy the course has been.

CapeRoadie

And how good the drugs are, especially when the testing doesn't work.

cyclingtv

CapeRoadie

Mrs John Murphy

Less of an article more of an electronic blow job. Still goes to show that you never can start too soon when re-writing history.

Enchantress

mr shifter