Archive for justcycling.myfastforum.org Just Cycling          justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The 3 GT´s Nolte Best year of grand tours? we had 3 very good grand tours this year with the vuelta, tour and giro. i can't recall a year when all three grand tours were so competitve so all i think this has been one of the best in terms of the 3 grand tours others views overall maybe the tour was the weakest of the three in terms of excitement. Bartali All three together .... yup, a very good year! Fontfroide In some simple racing way, the Tour was weakest of three very good GTs.  But while I do not enjoy and appreciate the Giro much more than before, in many ways, the Tour remains the one for me.  Nearly everyone is there, you just can't say that about the others, even if the racing or the parcours per se is often better.  I also have a strong prejudice for the French countryside, even if the others are pretty excellent, especially Italy.  Plus I could (formerly) listen to Fignon.  I think the tour is just a bigger spectacle and unmatched over all.  But three good GTs is better than two or one.   Truth is, I am looking forward to not having to pick winners and stay so active on this forum.  I  am looking forward to the break.  It is a pleasure to have learned to watch and share and enjoy all three Tours, but it does take up time.  Plus Cobblestone and NRT and even Cycling Gambler.  Been a long season. Slapshot 3 Fontfroide wrote: In some simple racing way, the Tour was weakest of three very good GTs.  But while I do not enjoy and appreciate the Giro much more than before, in many ways, the Tour remains the one for me.  Nearly everyone is there, you just can't say that about the others, even if the racing or the parcours per se is often better.  I also have a strong prejudice for the French countryside, even if the others are pretty excellent, especially Italy.  Plus I could (formerly) listen to Fignon.  I think the tour is just a bigger spectacle and unmatched over all.  But three good GTs is better than two or one.   Truth is, I am looking forward to not having to pick winners and stay so active on this forum.  I  am looking forward to the break.  It is a pleasure to have learned to watch and share and enjoy all three Tours, but it does take up time.  Plus Cobblestone and NRT and even Cycling Gambler.  Been a long season. ........ and when you start these "prediction games" up you just don't realise how time comsuming they can be, agree completely FF!! The Giro was ONE OF THE BEST that I can remember, the Vuelta was exceptional as well. The Tour it was a reasonable tour but Saxo killed it for me, Spartacus killing it in the Ardennes, Schlecklet's gob running wild at times. It has been a spectacular year and the strade bianche stage I the Giro was the highlight of the whole year for me. HuwB 1) Giro. Best since 2005, which was the best since.......... 2) Vuelta Best edition in years. I love those short punchy finishes and of course the Bola. 3) The 3rd dire, dull edition in a row. The mountains spluttered but failed to ignite. Saved from being a total disaster by the cobbles. MAILLOT JAUNE The TdF wins it for me every time - I just like the whole, big show even if the route might not be that exciting. I'd say Giro is second and Vuelta third. What makes a good GT? The route or the riders and also does it depend on which riders ride which GT. All the big teams obviously target the TdF as there's more TV/Media coverage than the other GT's. But are we getting riders who have something to prove (in the hope of riding the TdF the following year) riding more agressively in the other GT's and hence making it more exciting? gerry12ie The Giro probably had it all this year.  Drama, great parcours, Liquigas dominant but not certain until the final TT and the whole thing turned on its head mid-race by the weather.  Great race and great entertainment. I enjoyed the Vuelta more than usual but I still think one ITT in a three week race is not ‘proper’ racing and I simply don’t get the mountain thrown in at the start or middle of a sprinters stage but the Vuelta has always been a bit odd in that respect.  I just like TTs to have an impact on a race but they don’t make good TV do they? Le Tour would probably have been really bland were it not for the inclusion of the pave sections which really did have quite a big impact and I look forward to their inclusion again.  Midway through the first week and no FS to babysit Andy and Lance on his arse?  Now that’s an impact! Wither Contador?  His post-Bruyneel TT is nearer what it probably should be considering his DL and TDF times.  Evans overhauled him in the Fleche and he was unable to respond.  Astana threw everything at Schleck in the Tour and couldn’t make any major impact.  Makes for an interesting 2011 especially as Sastre, Evans, and Menchov will probably be not much more than bit players next year. kathy Gerry, I'm afraid I disagree with you about TT's  - I think they have far too much impact on GT's.  That said, I would like to see a mountain TT in every GT, and perhaps a prologue to sort out the jersey, and another medium (about 30km) flattish Tt.  I think that gives everyone a chance.  No TTT's, although I like watching them - but they distort the results too much.   I enjoyed all three GT's this year, and especially in the Giro and Vuelta, there was suspense right to the end. gerry12ie The Belgian school vs the Spanish school!  I agree with you about mountain TT though - if there had been one in the Vuelta then Rodriguez may have taken the podium spot. MAILLOT JAUNE Agree that there should be a Mountain ITT in every GT. But the TTT is a truly wonderful spectacle - kathy, you're good with points and stuff like that, couldn't you come up with a system for a TTT that doesn't distort the standings??????? Maybe they shouldn't have Rest Days and have short TTT's instead - that'd keep me happy! kathy Well, perhaps a TTT that only counts for the team prize, and not for GC??? TNG kathy wrote: Well, perhaps a TTT that only counts for the team prize, and not for GC??? Nice idea, but I would expect only those teams having real aspirations towards the team prize would be bothered to show up....the rest would treat is as a training ride, surely? How about a two-part TTT on the same day....one longer flat part, one shorter uphill part. Say 15/5km. Culmulative time. Or just make the last part of a single TTT go uphill? Severo Mountain team time trial. (If Bruyneel pays enough.) bianchigirl TTTs? Split stage - 5-10km TTT in the morning, short & interesting road stage in the afternoon - TTT only counts towards team competition. Strade Bianche and Bola stages were superb - and Nibali rode fantastically in both of them. 1st week of the TdF was good with the lead changing hands. No love for the ToB? There was a race that really upped its game this year - but not quite the 4th GT yet maffy bianchigirl wrote: No love for the ToB? There was a race that really upped its game this year - but not quite the 4th GT yet ToC by amgen. it's where it's at, dudelady. gerry12ie maffy wrote: bianchigirl wrote: No love for the ToB? There was a race that really upped its game this year - but not quite the 4th GT yet ToC by amgen. it's where it's at, dudelady. Eneco - proper road racing MAILLOT JAUNE Good idea, bg. But for some reason, I'm just not a fan of Split Stages. A mountain TTT sounds like fun!!!! bianchigirl a bit off topic but having a little debate on twitter re format of the Worlds (the problems of TTT started me thinking about this, plus good blog post by velocast) Should the Worlds have a format like Crit Int so that best all rounder wins? I say yes as Jens would be WC every year SlowRower kathy wrote: Gerry, I'm afraid I disagree with you about TT's  - I think they have far too much impact on GT's. Ultimately, though, isn't it inevitable that TTs become the dominant deciding factor? For whatever reason, be it PEDs in the "lower ranks", heart rate monitors, team radios, teams built round a GC contender, supported by half a dozen mountain tempo machines, the chance for major time gaps arising in mountain stages seems to be getting progressively smaller. The "Race of Truth" is much less affected by such factors, as it's just man against the clock and his inner demons for an hour. SlowRower bianchigirl wrote: Should the Worlds have a format...so that best all rounder wins? In the speedskating WCs, there is an all around competition that is made up of the results in the individual events. Very prestigious, apparently if you're into such things. There's usually a huge bunfight between the sprinters (500m / 1000m) and the stayers (5000m / 10000m) with performance at the intermediate distance (1500m) often the decisive factor. Something similar in cycling would be good, with an all round title decided by performances across a long road race, a short road race, a flat TT and a mountain TT etc. Tricky to know how to weight each event, though. Maybe a points based system like the Omnium on the track. It would add something to the occasion to see the big fellas really giving it their all in the MTT to try and secure the overall title, or the mountain goats mixing it in the bunch sprint! MAILLOT JAUNE Isn't that the point of the UCI World Rankings??? SlowRower Rankings are all well and good, but they are subject to two fundamental flaws: (These affect any rankings, not just UCI ones, albeit to different extents depending on the sport) - You can score more points by being frequently mediocre than infrequently brilliant - You get lots of second chances Championships are about doing it at the prescribed time, head to head against your opposition and in my view are a better test of competitive ability. That's not to say rankings have no place, though. They probably give a good idea as to who is consistently best, whereas championships tell you who was able to rise to the occasion. maffy MAILLOT JAUNE wrote: Isn't that the point of the UCI World Rankings??? gerry12ie wrote: maffy wrote: bianchigirl wrote: No love for the ToB? There was a race that really upped its game this year - but not quite the 4th GT yet ToC by amgen. it's where it's at, dudelady. Eneco - proper road racing proper electric, the eneco. actually, i liked all of the gts this year giro. quite rather brilliant good vuelta. bit spoiled by the coverage, and poor igor tour. even the "bad" gt had enough good bits to make up four or five two hour dvds that you might even watch again sometime. Biosphere SlowRower wrote: Ultimately, though, isn't it inevitable that TTs become the dominant deciding factor? For whatever reason, be it PEDs in the "lower ranks", heart rate monitors, team radios, teams built round a GC contender, supported by half a dozen mountain tempo machines, the chance for major time gaps arising in mountain stages seems to be getting progressively smaller. The "Race of Truth" is much less affected by such factors, as it's just man against the clock and his inner demons for an hour. I think you missed aero tech. Think it's playing a progressivley larger role and that the race of truth isn't just about one man and his demons any more. If the playing field has been levelled (or at least the blood doping bomb craters have been filled in) then the mountains become less decisive as they're dominated by physiology, whilst the tuckers* with all their technology can gain an advantage. * not a typo Slapshot 3 Just read this on the clinic.....nearly wet myself       Quote: Giro >>>>>> Tour The Giro is the above-average looking, very athletic, awesome personality chick that people stupidly ignore in favor of the hot dumb bimbo with big hooters that is the Tour. Bartali Yup ... that's about right!!!   Guiness Slapshot 3 wrote: Just read this on the clinic.....nearly wet myself       Quote: Giro >>>>>> Tour The Giro is the above-average looking, very athletic, awesome personality chick that people stupidly ignore in favor of the hot dumb bimbo with big hooters that is the Tour. Spot on.   Guiness The Giro vs. The Tour http://www.rapha.cc/the-giro-vs-the-tour thunderthighs with this new technology these climbs seems to be the winning edge.. look what it did for Lance.. but whats funny, speed has not improved.. greatly ciao Boogerd_Fan isn't that logic? a human being can only manually push a bike so fast... but the assistance comes in the way of speeded up recovery/less effort mr shifter Slapshot 3 wrote: Just read this on the clinic.....nearly wet myself       Quote: Giro >>>>>> Tour The Giro is the above-average looking, very athletic, awesome personality chick that people stupidly ignore in favor of the hot dumb bimbo with big hooters that is the Tour. Never a Doubt. (bas turd UCI, Bi jesus) The difference being the Prize List.          justcycling.myfastforum.org Forum Index -> The 3 GT´s Page 1 of 1