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chardon

ASTANA Failed UCI requirements for PRO-TOUR/ Contador FREE!

Well, theoretically....

http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/1512/C...tador-en-passe-d-etre-libre.dhtml
HuwB

Jumping the gun somewhat, there C.
Quote:
[In accordance with a new article added to the rules on 1 July 2009 (2.15.169b), the UCI is today publishing the list of teams that by 20 October 2009 had submitted an application file containing the following required documents:

•     budget
•     the sponsorship contracts duly signed with the main partners
•     the bank guarantee
•     at least 12 contracts with riders duly signed by the two parties
•     for new teams only, a description of the structure of the team together with a copy of the deed of incorporation of the paying agent.

The teams are:

•     AG2R La Mondiale
•     Franηaise des Jeux
•     Footon-Servetto
•     Garmin-Slipstream
•     Lampre Farnese Vini
•     Liquigas-Dommo
•     Quick-Step Cycling Team
•     Rabobank Cycling Team
•     RadioShack
•     Omega Pharma-Lotto
•     Team Columbia-HTC
•     Team Katusha
•     Team Milram

This information is being published with a view to keeping all parties concerned informed about the progress of UCI ProTeam registration applications.

The UCI and Ernst&Young will continue to evaluate all applications, including those of teams not in the above list, which have until 20 November to submit their completed applications. The UCI ProTour Council will make a final decision on UCI ProTeam registrations for the 2010 season after the official deadline of 20 November.

Also on that list of failing to comply are:
Caisse
Euskatel
Saxo and.....
Sky. Embarassed
chardon

Astana has failed to meet "the requirements set by the regulation, particularly in administrative and financial", a step that, according to the UCI, "aims to educate all parties on the status of files 'registration'

ASTANA is in a worse position than the others, I think.
HuwB

It explains why Bertie had October 20th, as the date.
Fact is, he is still there, which tends to give more weight to the November date.
The team I find really surprising is Sky.
May only be the paperwork, but, not off to a great start.
(especially as the Shack got it all sorted in a week.  Rolling Eyes  Wink )
Bartali

Paperwork Huw? Would that include brown manila envelopes?
Drongo

That reminds me Bartali.  There's an Australian Rules football team in Manila, apparently.  They call themselves the Manila Folders.
Me, a fan?

HuwB wrote:
Jumping the gun somewhat, there C.
Also on that list of failing to comply are:
Caisse
Euskatel
Saxo and.....
Sky. Embarassed


Makes it kind of tough to put the smackdown on Astana to free Alberto when all these guys dropped the ball too.
Enchantress

I suppose busting Astana for unfiled paperwork would technically count for something, though it has the feel of Al Capone being charged with Tax Evasion rather than bootlegging...
chardon

I think it's the failure to meet the 20 Oct. deadline that legally sets Contador free, not the Nov. 20 ultimatum. ASTANA can well meet the ultimatum and get a PRO TOUR license come Nov. 20, but the missed Oct. 20 deadline has set Contador free. Watch the press for the highest bidder...

Astana was one of five teams that missed the October 20 deadline, but may be the one that suffers the most immediate consequences, [b]since UCI rules allow riders on teams that have missed that deadline to terminate existing contracts.

....the failure to comply with the October 20 deadline may well provide Tour de France winner Alberto Contador with a legal basis to get out of the final year of his contract. [/b]

http://www.velonews.com/article/99519
HuwB

Well, it's a case of watch this space, as it shouldn't be long in coming.
Why is Zubeldia not already at the Shack?
I am a bit reluctant to become joyful over a situation that could finish yet another major team.

It goes further.

As for Sky, this has the potential to be a disasterous.
They haven't even announced the signing of sufficient riders to fulfill their PT obligations. (quite probably the reason they appear on the list)
If riders already committed, take this as a sign and opt out, we could have another Linda McCartney on our hands, with a cash rich squad. Confused

They need to get their house in order and quick.

However, this is far from the first time that UCI paperwork requirements have given teams a headache.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1467&page=134

Talk here of Contador's contract pre-dating the new UCI language above.
So, maybe not applicable to him.

Speculation that we may see a raft of new "poachings", to and from these teams.
mr shifter

HuwB wrote:
Jumping the gun somewhat, there C.
Quote:
[In accordance with a new article added to the rules on 1 July 2009 (2.15.169b), the UCI is today publishing the list of teams that by 20 October 2009 had submitted an application file containing the following required documents:

•     budget
•     the sponsorship contracts duly signed with the main partners
•     the bank guarantee
•     at least 12 contracts with riders duly signed by the two parties
•     for new teams only, a description of the structure of the team together with a copy of the deed of incorporation of the paying agent.

The teams are:

•     AG2R La Mondiale
•     Franηaise des Jeux
•     Footon-Servetto
•     Garmin-Slipstream
•     Lampre Farnese Vini
•     Liquigas-Dommo
•     Quick-Step Cycling Team
•     Rabobank Cycling Team
•     RadioShack
•     Omega Pharma-Lotto
•     Team Columbia-HTC
•     Team Katusha
•     Team Milram

This information is being published with a view to keeping all parties concerned informed about the progress of UCI ProTeam registration applications.

The UCI and Ernst&Young will continue to evaluate all applications, including those of teams not in the above list, which have until 20 November to submit their completed applications. The UCI ProTour Council will make a final decision on UCI ProTeam registrations for the 2010 season after the official deadline of 20 November.

Also on that list of failing to comply are:
Caisse
Euskatel
Saxo and.....
Sky. Embarassed


So which team do you sugest Contador moves to at the moment ??
HuwB

Well, if you look at the teams who have already been rubber stamped, they make pretty slim pickings.
That list makes it even more of a mystery that BBox and Cofidis got the chop.

How Footon are in, is beyond me.
Their riders are leaving in droves, their history is every bit as bad as Astana, yet they get an early all clear.

Meanwhile, the major squads, who underpin the PT, are left in limbo.


Still, as far as Contador is concerned, the silence is telling.
New contract or old contract?
Mrs John Murphy

The only question that matters to Dertie is 'do they have a good program'. So the choices would be Garmin or T-Mob 2.0
thunderthighs

they have'nt got the money to prsecute astana..


losers.....

contador may he be teamless..

ciao
Me, a fan?

mr shifter wrote:
HuwB wrote:
Jumping the gun somewhat, there C.
Quote:
[In accordance with a new article added to the rules on 1 July 2009 (2.15.169b), the UCI is today publishing the list of teams that by 20 October 2009 had submitted an application file containing the following required documents:

•     budget
•     the sponsorship contracts duly signed with the main partners
•     the bank guarantee
•     at least 12 contracts with riders duly signed by the two parties
•     for new teams only, a description of the structure of the team together with a copy of the deed of incorporation of the paying agent.

The teams are:

•     AG2R La Mondiale
•     Franηaise des Jeux
•     Footon-Servetto
•     Garmin-Slipstream
•     Lampre Farnese Vini
•     Liquigas-Dommo
•     Quick-Step Cycling Team
•     Rabobank Cycling Team
•     RadioShack
•     Omega Pharma-Lotto
•     Team Columbia-HTC
•     Team Katusha
•     Team Milram

This information is being published with a view to keeping all parties concerned informed about the progress of UCI ProTeam registration applications.

The UCI and Ernst&Young will continue to evaluate all applications, including those of teams not in the above list, which have until 20 November to submit their completed applications. The UCI ProTour Council will make a final decision on UCI ProTeam registrations for the 2010 season after the official deadline of 20 November.

Also on that list of failing to comply are:
Caisse
Euskatel
Saxo and.....
Sky. Embarassed


So which team do you sugest Contador moves to at the moment ??


Cassie.  Very Happy
Nolte

HuwB wrote:
Well, it's a case of watch this space, as it shouldn't be long in coming.
Why is Zubeldia not already at the Shack?
I am a bit reluctant to become joyful over a situation that could finish yet another major team.

It goes further.

As for Sky, this has the potential to be a disasterous.
They haven't even announced the signing of sufficient riders to fulfill their PT obligations. (quite probably the reason they appear on the list)
If riders already committed, take this as a sign and opt out, we could have another Linda McCartney on our hands, with a cash rich squad. Confused

They need to get their house in order and quick.

However, this is far from the first time that UCI paperwork requirements have given teams a headache.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1467&page=134

Talk here of Contador's contract pre-dating the new UCI language above.
So, maybe not applicable to him.

Speculation that we may see a raft of new "poachings", to and from these teams.


yeah if i was one of the 20 scandinavians on the sky team, i'd be worried
Mrs John Murphy

The ironic thing is this - why switch from what on paper looks a very strong Astana team to a much weaker team like Caisse, Garmin or Columbia?
Nolte

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
The ironic thing is this - why switch from what on paper looks a very strong Astana team to a much weaker team like Caisse, Garmin or Columbia?


i agree garmin are weak but disagree about caisse and columbia

the thing about columbia would be he'd have to be part of cavendish's sprint train in the first week Very Happy
Mrs John Murphy

I can't really see Frodo or Eisel etc doing much water-carrying or chasing down of the Schlecks. I can't see Frodo being happy about 'his' train being diluted. Columbia have lost most of their climbers and basically seem to be a sprinters team this days.
Fontfroide

Gotta be Caisse, they are Spanish. They have hired a few more climbers.  They are strong enough for Alberto.  Although one can quibble about ranking systems, according to the UCI Caisse is second to Astana, so I am not sure how anyone could say they were weak.  Unless the ranking system bears no relation whatever to quality.

Gotta be Caisse.
Mrs John Murphy

Because their results and ranking is based on Piti, LLS and Rojas.

Are Cobo and Arroyo going to be enough support in the mountains? Still doesn't look like enough support if he comes under the hammer.
Enchantress

Subtract Rodriguez from the equation too for Caisse.

Thus on paper, they would appear to be less talented than Astana.

The thing I keep thinking however, is that with Caisse, it would unequivocally be Contador's team. They are spanish, he'd be comfortable, and no Vino and his assorted 'race tactics' or crazy Kazakh bosses. Not to mention, Caisse's "Program" and ahem, team doctors have certainly produced results for LLS, Valverde and Rojas.

That may tip things in favor of Caisse far more than Garmin or Columbia. I can't see Contador on the same squad as Frodo.

Besides, let's be honest here, does Contador truly need a disco style mountain train ala pharmstrong to win? I tend to think he's that much stronger that it won't matter.
Fontfroide

Looking at the Vuelta I reckon that Kiriyenka and Moreno and Lopez are not that bad, although I tend to be a bit ignorant about Spanish riders.  But assuming that Caisse hires one or two others if they get Contador, his choices, then the team is not that bad.  Maybe not the very best team, but for sure way better than nearly all the others.

Do you think that Caisse did well in the Vuelta?

Anyway I think it is the Spanishness that will tip the balance.  Even though I do think Caisse is a good team.  Don't forget they signed Bruseghin, Moreau and Soler.  Add that to what they already have and they rise at least to "well above average", if not "very good indeed".  Assuming of course that the new hirings ride well during the Tour, which we have no idea about.  they could all turn out to be has beens.

Still, all specualtion at present.  but fun.
Biosphere

Enchantress wrote:
Besides, let's be honest here, does Contador truly need a disco style mountain train ala pharmstrong to win? I tend to think he's that much stronger that it won't matter.


Probably. I think that's why Garmin is (was) an option - the TTT would be his one potential weakness.
Fontfroide

Tour de France TTT 2009

2   Garmin - Slipstream   0:00:18  
7 Caisse d'Epargne 0:01:29
12 Quick Step 0:02:26

I would go for Caisse and be comfortable in my own language.  Clearly Alberto is no linguist. He can gain a minute most anybody most any day.
HuwB

Yeah, I agree.
It's gotta be Caisse. He'd be undisputed Giro leader! Laughing
They have the best suport structure for a GT specialist and he's already a homourary member.

MJM, you are forgetting the have ever dependable Marzio Brushegin and Soler.  (if he stays upright)
Add LLS DA and Cobo and that seems a pretty strong bunch for the hills.
Mrs John Murphy

I would question how someone like LLS would respond to this - he is the de facto number 2 at the moment and capable in the stage races like DL, PN. ie Dertie favourites. Piti will only be racing in Spain next season, so that rules out any of the Spanish races for LLS - leaving what for him to pick over - Northern Classics? T-A?

Brushegin is about 37-38 now isn't he? Has Soler done any water carrying for anyone recently?

What doesn't really follow is that it seems like Astana signed a lot of guys at Dertie's request - ie 'his' guys. Why leave them and move to a team where other than being Spanish they have their own loyalties...
HuwB

Mrs John Murphy wrote:

What doesn't really follow is that it seems like Astana signed a lot of guys at Dertie's request - ie 'his' guys. Why leave them and move to a team where other than being Spanish they have their own loyalties...


That is the question, as it seems he wants to go.
Mrs John Murphy

HuwB wrote:
Mrs John Murphy wrote:

What doesn't really follow is that it seems like Astana signed a lot of guys at Dertie's request - ie 'his' guys. Why leave them and move to a team where other than being Spanish they have their own loyalties...


That is the question, as it seems he wants to go.


Alternatively he could be looking to use Caisse as leverage against Vino and Astana. Dertie knows he is their ticket to the GTs. Of course this may well be crediting Dertie with too much intelligence.
kathy

MJM, you always seem to portray Berto as being rather thick.  When he was 19, he thought long and hard about continuing his college studies or becoming a full-time cyclist.  He also speaks more English that he leads most people to believe.
Mrs John Murphy

He's only thick when he wants to be - like when people ask him about his time at LSW... the ability to speak english is not a sign of intelligence. Look at Frodo.
kathy

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  I think he sees and understands a lot more than some people thought (eg Brunyeel, Armstrong).  I think he found it benefitted him to play the ignorant Spanish peasant when dealing with people like that.
Fontfroide

Mrs John Murphy wrote:
Has Soler done any water carrying for anyone recently?

.


More to the point and slightly against my argument that Soler is a good addition to a very good team, what has Soler done lately.  Near as I can tell, nothing much.  I think he might well be "just" a domestique now.  And whether either Moreau or Brushegin have a solid good Tour in them is not at all clear.  Still, there are worse domestiques in the mountains.
CapeRoadie

kathy wrote:
I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  I think he sees and understands a lot more than some people thought (eg Brunyeel, Armstrong).  I think he found it benefitted him to play the ignorant Spanish peasant when dealing with people like that.


That sums it up nicely.
Mrs John Murphy

kathy wrote:
I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  I think he sees and understands a lot more than some people thought (eg Brunyeel, Armstrong).  I think he found it benefitted him to play the ignorant Spanish peasant when dealing with people like that.


That probably overstates it. Dertie is never going to win a Nobel Prize. He is pretty thick and his lack of english comprehension, like Sammy Sosa, only ever seems to happen when the subject of drugs comes up.

This is afterall, the guy who has willingly signed up for LSW, Discovery and Astana all the while claiming to know nothing about any drugs.

He is not as naive as either his fans or enemies wish him to be. That is perhaps the point.
Enchantress

Not nearly as daft in media dealings as Pharmstrong (nor does the media pander to him nearly as much!), but Contador knows enough to engage as well as avoid certain topics. I've listened to his interviews in spanish and he seems to be a bright enough young bloke, not a scientist, but hardly dense either.

Regardless, the real matter at hand is whether he'll stay with Astana in lieu of the paperwork fiasco as well as the signings the team has made.

I still maintain, and this is merely opinion, that given a choice, he'd prefer to be on a spanish team with riders who will give their all for him, even if they are 2nd rate. All the while avoiding vino and his kazakh cronies.
SlowRower

Is that daft or deft in respect of media dealings? Armstrong does both, depending on the circumstances.
HuwB

Just appearing on the grapevine.....
Contador staying at Astana for 2010. Wink

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.co...h-Astana/articleshow/5175880.cms?
Mrs John Murphy

And also here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2...rto-contador-astana-cycling-sport

What now for the Happy Clappy Brigade?
last km

Quote:
and the national airline Air Astana


Do you get high on those planes......doh
HuwB

Can't you lot post any news in these bumps? Wink

Bro Fran has said if Bertie remains at Astana, there will be a clause in his contract that if anyone tests + his contract will be void and he can leave - Does not want to miss the Tour.

Astana have said they'll accept his conditions.

Also, it seems the "oooh, he can leave now" thing wasn't quite accurate and it would probably end up in CAS if Astana wanted to be difficult.

So, Bertie is to stay.......

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