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Fontfroide

Another cyclist dead

This time the guy that did it already had killed a cyclist a few years back.  For his second victim he got some fairly laughable sentence, and a few people in CTC want to encourage the State to appeal the sentence as being "too lenient".  Only the State can do this.  So take a look and sign the petition if you want they guy to go down.

http://engagement.ctc.org.uk/ea-a...id=20506&ea.tracking.id=AF-fb
JohnD

Very sad & I've signed FF.
Bartali

Me too!  This whole thing about helmets  - as set out in the link - really irks me too.  Helmets clearly have very little to do with whether cyclists are 'hit' by cars - if anything the evidence suggests that wearing a helmet means you are more likely to be hit.  I'm not saying we shouldn't wear helmets though ... but the criminality lies with the drivers everytime in cases like this.
mr shifter

Well you know I've got to be on this one.
With mine, it is now 3588 complaints.

Thanks FF for bringing it to my attention.
gerry12ie

Well when the prevailing attitude is summed up by these comments from one of our 'MP's' you realise just how far we have to go...




http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/05/15/cycling-lessons-you-say/

Spot the usual phrases - 'arrogance' of cyclists, compulsory lanes, blah blah...
JohnD

I never use the shared pedestrian/cycle paths, feel much safer on the road.
Bartali

Yeah ... cos pedestrians would really appreciate a cyclyst hurling down the shared path at 20mph!  Next thing cyclists will be banned from those too ...
kathy

Signed!  I've only been riding again for a few weeks, and last Sunday some idiot in a car tried to run me down!
MAILLOT JAUNE

This beggars belief:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22602141
With attitudes like that it's a wonder anyone cycles - the guy is lucky to be alive. This woman should be jailed!
gerry12ie

Incredible - but sadly indicative of a prevailing attitude among a sizeable minority.
Bartali

And the police will most likely do sod all despite a 'twittered' confession, presumably the forensic evidence surrounding the broken wing mirror, and fleeing the scene of an RTA!!
mr shifter

She has admitted, knowingly leaving the scene of an accident, so that should confound her guilt.

I do love the side bit by someone quoting @gov.uk
The so-called 'Road Tax'

The comment on Twitter suggested Toby Hockley, as a cyclist, does not pay "road tax".

A road tax does not exist in the UK but the term is commonly and incorrectly used to refer to the Vehicle Excise Duty (VED), or "car tax" paid on most motorised vehicles as a tax on emissions.

Roads are funded by all UK taxpayers under general and local taxes.

That's a new slant on Road Tax that I've not heard before.
CapeRoadie

Boston, Massachusetts is trying to make it better:

http://bostoncyclistsunion.org/un...s-bike-crashes/?utm_source=feedly
Biosphere

Editorial style thingie on helmets in the BMJ. Link gets behind the paywall.

http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bm...y=I5vHBog6FhaaLzX&keytype=ref
kathy

I must admit that I rarely wear a helmet, although it is required by law outside towns in Spain, but generally we cycle along quiet lanes or cycle tracks.  The other week we were going to help at a charity Rastro, and to get there we needed to cycle along a busy road, so I wore my helmet.  We parked the bikes in full view and close by the stall we were manning, and left my helmet on the saddle.  It was stolen!
MrsSR

I always wear my helmet. I got knocked off my bike by a tandem last year when I had just set off from traffic lights so was going no more then 5mph. As I didn't see it coming I went down like a sack of spuds and went straight onto the back of my head. I cracked my helmet right through at the back. That would have been my head if I hadn't been wearing the helmet.

My point is that I don't think it matters whether you are on busy or quiet roads or whether there are cars around or not. Accidents happen quickly and in the most unlikley circumstances.
berck

This happened in my town recently on a well traveled road that many of us use.

Cyclist killed by car in Pleasanton identified
Bartali

That's awful berck.  Stay safe my friend!

As to helmet use, with me it depends on what bike I'm riding.  How irrational is that.  Modern roadbike = helmet.  Mtb = helmet.  Old school steel = no helmet.  Old habits die hard.
berck

Bartali wrote:
That's awful berck.  Stay safe my friend!

As to helmet use, with me it depends on what bike I'm riding.  How irrational is that.  Modern roadbike = helmet.  Mtb = helmet.  Old school steel = no helmet.  Old habits die hard.


Thanks Bart! I was looking around as I passed the location where she was killed today. I wasn't sure exactly where it happened, but I have a good idea.

I think your helmet use plan is very good. About the same as mine... Smile
Biosphere

This sort of fits on this thread. A nice little piece.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/thesel...4/the-insurrection-of-connection/
gerry12ie

It amazes me just how incendiary riding two abreast can be for some drivers.  There are drivers out there that somehow see it akin to an aggressive invasion of their turf by cyclists.  I have to admit that some groups might not necessarily help the situation by staunchly refusing to ride single file on narrow roads but it needs to be hammered home to motorists that we can cycle two abreast.  Period.

It might also be an idea to point out to drivers that its not a great idea to pass a cyclist at the same time that a car is passing a cyclist on the other side of the road...
Fontfroide

berck wrote:
Bartali wrote:
That's awful berck.  Stay safe my friend!

As to helmet use, with me it depends on what bike I'm riding.  How irrational is that.  Modern roadbike = helmet.  Mtb = helmet.  Old school steel = no helmet.  Old habits die hard.


Thanks Bart! I was looking around as I passed the location where she was killed today. I wasn't sure exactly where it happened, but I have a good idea.

I think your helmet use plan is very good. About the same as mine... Smile


Road bike, ALWAYS helmet.  Moulton around town (very small one), NEVER.  Does that make sense?  Not really.
Bartali

gerry12ie wrote:
It might also be an idea to point out to drivers that its not a great idea to pass a cyclist at the same time that a car is passing a cyclist on the other side of the road...


Yup!  I get that all the time along with the other drivers that see it as some sort of challenge to pass by without crossing the line in the middle of the road even if there isn't a car in sight!

The 'Bicycling' post was interesting ...

I had a car honking away behind me on a steep narrow climb a few weeks ago.  In frustration I just stopped in the middle of the road and turned around to deliver both barrels only to find a couple of lads with huge grins on their faces and not a hint of anger or frustration.  I couldn't help but laugh, step aside and let them pass by ...
HuwB

The annual Abergavenny Festival of Cycling takes place over this week.

A tragic end to last night's event.
A rider was killed during the sprint finish.
Several ended up in the open road lane.
Hit by a white van travelling in the opposite direction.
JohnD

HuwB wrote:
The annual Abergavenny Festival of Cycling takes place over this week.

A tragic end to last night's event.
A rider was killed during the sprint finish.
Several ended up in the open road lane.
Hit by a white van travelling in the opposite direction.


That's insane, a sprint finish on an open road!!!!!
gerry12ie

That is very sad
MAILLOT JAUNE

Tragic especially when it was a specially organised event. This type of thing seems to be happening far too often with amateur races and charity events.

Very sad to hear about the 20 year old on the Boris Bike who was killed by a lorry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23207691

Thoughts are with the families and friends of both cyclists.
SlowRower

Sad news indeed. Sad
JohnD

MAILLOT JAUNE wrote:
Tragic especially when it was a specially organised event. This type of thing seems to be happening far too often with amateur races and charity events.

Very sad to hear about the 20 year old on the Boris Bike who was killed by a lorry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23207691

Thoughts are with the families and friends of both cyclists.


My thoughts are with them too.

Ugh to the bold, i'm doing the BHF night ride to Brighton on Saturday, hoping for a safe ride for all
MAILLOT JAUNE

Good luck JohnD and stay safe.
JohnD

Cheers MJ!
Bartali

Sad news Sad

Stay safe JohnD
JohnD

Will do Bartali!
mr shifter

JohnD wrote:
Will do Bartali!

How will you do that. ?
Ride a bike with wing mirrors. !
JohnD

Well i didn't do any crazy batshit descending and kept out of the way of incoming traffic!
gerry12ie

All go well John?  We are used to Slowrower style reports around here...
JohnD

And you're gonna get one! Working on it now, i'me gonna go one better and put a stage profile on it hehehe!
JohnD

Cyclist killer Gary McCourt: Crown appeals against 'lenient' sentence

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23687275
mr shifter

JohnD wrote:
Cyclist killer Gary McCourt: Crown appeals against 'lenient' sentence

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23687275
My "e"mail was one of the 6000 plus that were sent to Scotland's Lord Advocate office requesting an appeal to the lenient sentence.
He should be banned for life (not just five years) and given a five year minimum time served prison sentence.
MAILLOT JAUNE

Absolutely shocking sentence, especially considering that he had knocked down and killed another cyclist in the past!!!!!!!!!!!
Occasionalsweeper

Update on Edinburgh Court case

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24240127

The one positive thing was that the appeal judges indicated that the Sheriff was wrong to attribute part of the blame to the cyclist for not wearing a helmet.
mr shifter

Part of email from CTC (21 hours ago)

Judges today REJECTED that appeal by deciding that the original sentence of a 5-year driving ban and 300 hours community service are sufficient punishment for killing a second cyclist.
Nolte

ridiculous
mr shifter

This woman didn't die. Rolling Eyes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-24364332
berck

mr shifter wrote:
This woman didn't die. Rolling Eyes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-24364332


It's people like that woman, who give the rest of us riders a bad name. Good grief, she was lucky.
Fontfroide

mr shifter wrote:
This woman didn't die. Rolling Eyes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-24364332


In the same package, there is footage of a car in another near miss, no barriers this time.  I would say the clearance was maybe half a metre.  Incredible what people do and don't do, drivers, pedestrians or cyclists.  I don't think that woman cyclist "gives us a bad name", any more than the driver did.  People make mistakes and die.
mr shifter

Fontfroide wrote:
 People make mistakes and die.

It is those other people's mistakes that have killed that rile me. (also those who are maimed (like me) for life by careless idiots.)
berck

Fontfroide wrote:
I don't think that woman cyclist "gives us a bad name", any more than the driver did.


It does around here. When people see things like this, it increases the calls that cyclist don't obey traffic laws. You start hearing "Those cyclist NEVER stop at stop signs", etc. My emphasis is how it would be stated or written.
mr shifter

Amy Dombroski killed while training

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/amy-dombroski-killed-while-training

Why is it that a cyclist was in collision with a vehicle when the vehicle runs into (or over) the cyclist.

berck wrote:
My emphasis is how it would be stated or written.
Just picking up your point on presentation.
CapeRoadie

Here's another unbelievable and needless murder of two local cyclists:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/...kFbSzvqTS0uEvtgneu28WI/story.html

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/0...driver-charged-in-fatal-nh-crash/
Biosphere

This last week or so is getting very sad Sad

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-new...ondon-bike-death-bus-superhighway
MAILLOT JAUNE

Was just about to post the same Bio (but you beat me to it, again - unfortunately, as I would prefer not to have to post these things). From BBC website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24936942

This is just terrible, especially as Boris Johnson has just "launched" the bike superhighway.  Seems that it's something to be avoided at all costs.

Very sad indeed!
JohnD

I don't really understand what's going on on the London roads - more cars and more cyclists and yet it seems there's less awareness of each other Sad
mazda

Without wishing to diminish what is going on I'm not sure how many are due to cars.
mr shifter

Super Highway sounds like Bollox.

My thoughts go back many years to the Crawley By Pass which was built Pre War I think in concrete with it's Cycle Path away from the road.
The first time I rode this path I found it strewn with rubbish and glass so I dis mounted and lifted the bike over the grass verge onto the road and continued the ride to Brighton.
In this country we have the right to use the roads and ride two abreast as we cycle along, which is the same as they do in cars side by side.
So maybe we need some sea side 4 wheel "light weight" buggies so we can apply the principal of side by side cycling once again.  Rolling Eyes

I remember a reliability trial start/finish at Kempton Park to Midhurst, Petersfield and Basingstoke which somehow went wrong and most of the contestants riding across Blackbushe Airport (a single carriageway) in the dark.
I would say that there were 100 + many more in that "Club Run" to Kempton and all with cycle pumps at the ready for failed attempts of overtaking by cars.

They keep attempting to make cycling safer by restricting where the cyclist can go but the problem should be resolved from the other way.
We are cyclists and also motorists and when in charge of a vehicle we are very very much aware of cyclist coming through the nearside or offside.
Idea The simple answer is therefore to make drivers ride a cycle, moped or wheelchair through a busy town traffic and so by doing that would cut out so much lecturing about cycle safety.
In fact they must do that before being given a driving license. Idea
Biosphere

So let me guess, she's was cleared of driving without due care and attention because she was actually aware of knocking over a cyclist? Her biggest regret is tweeting about it. Unbelievable.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/...ed-motorist-bloody-cyclists-tweet

Meanwhile, another cyclist dies in London, and the mayor's response is to get police to stop cyclists who are not wearing high vis jackets and to propose banning headphones. It's all the cyclists' fault you see.
MAILLOT JAUNE

That girl who tweeted was an absolute idiot.
"Norwich magistrates convicted her of failing to stop after an accident and failing to report it, which she denied.

Way, of Watton, was acquitted of driving without due care and attention."

How on earth she got away with the driving without due care and attention beggars belief.

As to another cyclist being killed on London's roads, it is just appalling. If this had been people killed by a gunman or stabbing there would be absolute uproar. Boris Johnson should be protecting cyclists, especially as he claims to be one himself and maybe contact the Dutch authorities for advise!
HuwB

Very sad this. Seems like only yesterday he was riding for Caisse:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...g-car-accident-in-northern-france

Made worse by the fact that Levarlet was held because he was driving under the influence.
Fontfroide

Urban cycling blogs that are very intelligent and look at the questions very carefully.  By a cyclist and academic.

http://thinkingaboutcycling.com/

One post is long, but it IS a complicated problem.
Biosphere

Seeing as we're posting city cycling blogs

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblo...itains-cities-mad-dangerous/23040

Interesting to compare to what I see here. Public transport plus bike is very viable and it just doesn't make sense to use car when my commuting train does 200 km/hr at its top speed. Weekly cost of being able to use any public transport (bus, train, tram and even boat) any where in the country at any time for an unlimited amount is less than £50. My connecting bus at the far end runs every 3 minutes so the rare train delay is irrelevant. Unsurprisingly there is not so many cars in the city and lots of bikes. Even in winter. Until there are those type of carrots to get cars off the road in London, and the property building boom fades and takes trucks with it, I can't see that much will change unfortunately.
mr shifter

Noted in my many travels in the USA that public City Buses (all much the same) have a rack on the front and people with bikes just hail the bus as normal and place their bike on the rack and off we go.
The driver waits while the bike is removed when needed.


Found on another forum.
Swiss pro cyclist killed by a car in Spain.
http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news...illed_in_a_car_accident_in_spain/
gerry12ie

Very sad, IAM's Goddaert killed in a training accident in Antwerp.  Front wheel caught in tram track and then hit by a bus.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/goddaert-killed-in-training-accident

RIP Kristoff
Biosphere

Goddaert's funeral was today. Some nice touches from his compatriots, but nevertheless a very sad day Sad

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/c...ommunity-says-goodbye-to-goddaert
Nolte

very sad. goddaert and baur rip.
mr shifter

Now where's the "Elephant & Castle Tee Shirt, got to. (worn out she says)
mazda

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26705915

24 hour charity rider.  Sad
Another victim to chalk up on the tab that is the price of freedom.
mr shifter

.
Try this, but he is not dead and the Idiot keeps saying he is alright.
Riding a bike in New York bike lanes. (Ref,my previous post-This guy has brakes on his bike ?)

http://www.steephill.tv/players/y...d=&id=yFFZnnasd_Q&yr=2014

Never say that because some years ago I found that an Injury caused by another car smashed into my car while waiting at a railway crossing.
This was checked out by doctors in a hospital and we all thought I was OK.
10 years later I have problems.
Fontfroide

http://www.midilibre.fr/2014/10/2...ecu-au-grave-accident,1070084.php

Essence is a priest was out riding his bike on the road that goes form the coast to my town, a two lane road, quite dangerous, but with a rather large bit on the side.  Used by all clubs to get to the big hills near me.  Got hit by a guy who might be so sick he should not be driving his 4x4.  Maybe he will get busted, maybe not.
Nolte

thats horrible, ff
Fontfroide

In an effort to help cyclists ride on safe roads  Laughing there will be a big crackdown on cyclists making illegal moves.  There is no doubt there are cyclists who do run red lights, and do use mobile phones while riding and do go down the wrong way on one way streets.  However, one might have noticed car drivers doing the same,and to the best of my knowledge the collision between cyclists and car drivers usually turns out worse for the cyclist.  Therefore ….  I have never seen a more stupid policy.  I think I will walk into town and count how many drivers (it takes me three minutes) are talking on mobiles.

This article would strike me as a joke except I heard in on the news as well.
http://www.languedocliving.com/fr...-on-rogue-cyclists-news-2041.html
SlowRower

Fontfroide wrote:
In an effort to help cyclists ride on safe roads  Laughing there will be a big crackdown on cyclists making illegal moves.  There is no doubt there are cyclists who do run red lights, and do use mobile phones while riding and do go down the wrong way on one way streets.  However, one might have noticed car drivers doing the same,and to the best of my knowledge the collision between cyclists and car drivers usually turns out worse for the cyclist.  Therefore ….  I have never seen a more stupid policy.  I think I will walk into town and count how many drivers (it takes me three minutes) are talking on mobiles.

This article would strike me as a joke except I heard in on the news as well.
http://www.languedocliving.com/fr...-on-rogue-cyclists-news-2041.html


I have to confess that I shoot red lights sometimes. If done slowly, having checked other traffic and pedestrians etc. it's hard to see how this is inherently more dangerous than crossing the road on foot away from a proper crossing. (I don't doubt it's illegal, but so far, I've always been able to outsprint the rozzers. Smile) Certainly, avoiding having to clip in as cars snarl behind you or pass you as the lights change to green is generally a good idea.

I guess everyone has their own perception of risk. I'm always horrified at the number of folk who cycle in the dark with no lights or cycle in busy traffic with headphones on, even more so when such activities are combined with undertaking or veering across lanes without signalling. I assume the perpetrators of these activities think they're as safe as I think I am!
Fontfroide

The (silly) point of the new crackdown is not so much to bust guys like you (and me) who "bruler le feu" (burn the light), as that the people making the rule think that this will make the roads safer for cyclists.  Cars and trucks are the problem, not cyclists.  More or less.  

If you don't look carefully and a car hits you, you die or are injured.  The car might have paint scratched and the driver might feel bad.  Too many cars is the problem.  

There are lights near us that are set off by pedestrians, and some people think anyone who sits in front of a red light, when there is no person or vehicle in sight are fools.  I tend to agree.
mazda

I don't think it is the danger of what the cyclist is doing per se.
It is the implied logic that if cyclists behave themselves it will have a knock-on effect on the behaviour of the car drivers, who won't get as mad and may not injure as many cyclists.
Hence it will be safer for the cyclists.

I'm not totally sure about that.
If an average car driver is sat at a red light are they happy
a) to see a cyclist come past them and go through the red light
b) to see a cyclist come past them and sit in front of them waiting for the light to change
c) neither of the above

As for jumping red lights when it is safe to do so.
The obvious flaw with that is what happens when every other road user decides to ignore the lights and do what is best for them ?
In effect you are taking selfish advantage of everyone else following the rules.
I'm not criticising you, everyone has their own set of rules that they deem it reasonable to break every now.
mazda

Fontfroide wrote:
The (silly) point of the new crackdown is not so much to bust guys like you (and me) who "bruler le feu" (burn the light), as that the people making the rule think that this will make the roads safer for cyclists.  Cars and trucks are the problem, not cyclists.  More or less.  

Oh.
So the makers of this rule actually believe that cyclists jumping lights and using phones is a major cause of accidents between cars and cyclists ?

I still think it is just a fop to car drivers, an example of the idiocy of democracy in action.
SlowRower

mazda wrote:
As for jumping red lights when it is safe to do so.

The obvious flaw with that is what happens when every other road user decides to ignore the lights and do what is best for them ?


Interesting point. Car drivers would most likely get nabbed by a "red light camera" and ANPR and get three points if they did it too often even if there was no safety issue. Despite my comment about outsprinting the rozzers, I wouldn't knowingly shoot a red light in full view of a cop car/motorbike.
berck

The rider didn't die, but they found video evidence of the accident and won their case.

http://www.bikelaw.com/2014/12/08...-into-chicago-cyclist-helps-case/

Personally, I believe the rider could have also been paying closer attention.
Fontfroide

I tend to agree with the court.  The guy was toodling along in the lane ready to turn left and the car just swept him away.  Normally, I think, when you hit somebody in the rear, whether car or bike, its your fault.  End of story.

It is also true that the guy might have judged things a bit better.  I tried to see if he looked to the rear, and can't find it.  I reckon that car was going at a fair clip for an urban area too, but who knows.
berck

I don't  disagree with your analysis. Just felt he wasn't doing himself any favors by, what it appeared, he never looked back. Given that, the car had plenty of time to have seen him and adjust.
Fontfroide

berck wrote:
I don't  disagree with your analysis. Just felt he wasn't doing himself any favors by, what it appeared, he never looked back. Given that, the car had plenty of time to have seen him and adjust.


I think we agree.  It is also a fact that negligent drivers cause a whole lot more harm than negligent cyclists (who clearly exist), who mostly just suffer injury or death themselves, without causing much damage to other vehicles or people.

Frankly, cyclists are so vulnerable and it is so obvious there should be more of them, that they should get higher priority (along with pedestrians) than other road users.  Otherwise we are never going to deal with the perfectly understandable fear that almost all people have of riding bikes on the road, coupled with the final uselessness of cycleways (they never go from your house to the place you are going and back).  Cyclists always have to use roads shared with cars at some point.
berck

We do. I just think that some bicycle riders ride like they drive a car, not paying close enough attention. Which is a really bad thing when the two collide. The driver should have the greater responsibility because of the greater potential to cause death.
berck

This one is sad. The rider was with a large group on a narrow road. He was near the back when two riders went down. In order to miss the crash, he went out of the lane into the opposite one, and hit the truck.

http://christiancycling.com/7823/fatal-accident-prayers-needed/
Biosphere

Came across this one this morning. The trouble with getting into an altercation with car drivers is that they have a few tonnes of steel to retaliate with.

http://www.theguardian.com/enviro...st-man-voluntarily-goes-to-police
berck

Biosphere wrote:
Came across this one this morning. The trouble with getting into an altercation with car drivers is that they have a few tonnes of steel to retaliate with.

http://www.theguardian.com/enviro...st-man-voluntarily-goes-to-police


I had a cycling friend of mine tell me about a story where he almost got taken out by a car where the driver was talking on the phone and didn't see him. He followed the car into the store parking lot and waited for her to get off the phone. When she did, he talked with her nicely about what happened. She had no idea she almost hit him.

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